rpra one loft mob flying

[hepste]

Van Link has merely opened up a debate, in order that everyone can make a contribution.  Nothing I have read so far proves the case one way or another.  What I will say is that Van Link is not the first person to submit that drag has an effect on a result; respected fanciers and others have been saying it from the time pigeon racing began. Indeed most fanciers I meet just accept it as a fact of life.  I think that what we are all agreed on is that there are pigeons around that can overcome such a disadvantage, but a poor "drag assisted pigeon" will beat a poor "non drag assisted" pigeon. .  By definition therefore drag does offer an advantage.

 

Jeremy Davies should not take this personally, as I feel he may.  However, he must accept that things need to be aired by the people that pay his salary.

[Guest puresoontjen]

Van Link has merely opened up a debate, in order that everyone can make a contribution.  Nothing I have read so far proves the case one way or another.  What I will say is that Van Link is not the first person to submit that drag has an effect on a result; respected fanciers and others have been saying it from the time pigeon racing began. Indeed most fanciers I meet just accept it as a fact of life.  I think that what we are all agreed on is that there are pigeons around that can overcome such a disadvantage, but a poor "drag assisted pigeon" will beat a poor "non drag assisted" pigeon. .  By definition therefore drag does offer an advantage.

 

Jeremy Davies should not take this personally, as I feel he may.  However, he must accept that things need to be aired by the people that pay his salary.

 

NOT ANOTHER ONE PLEASE SOME JUST DO GET IT DO THAY ]THE BEST BIRD WON[/size]

[Guest numpty01]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D i flew untrained youngster in my club 100 miles against 800 ?in my club are 11 household names multy nat winners fed winners now i took 3rd club 4fed on the south road was my win about top bird nope right place right time it just kept with the batch till they past me  he got lost following week never to be seen again  drag or best bird ???/drag

[Pigeondoll]

Unfair advantages have always been there, this gives us the initiative to put more of an effort into winning, or it does for me. If you get a bird fit, healthy & motivated he'll be there for you. So Keep trying that the way.Good luck for this year everyone (dizzy)

[Guest numpty01]

but most of all remmber its only pigeons not the end of world ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[superstar]

but most of all remmber its only pigeons not the end of world ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Try telling that to some fanciers lol. Pigeon racing always has, and always will have advantages to where you live, how many you send etc, that is a fact and one we all have to except simple as that. If you race 30 pigeons for example you are 30 times more likely to win than a man that has 1 its a simple law of averages (providing they both have good birds and know how to fly a pigeon), then couple that with a favourable location and the small man is beat before its started. Admittedly there is always the odd exception to the rule but it really is the odd exception too!

 

Mike do you fly with the Severn Valley Fed then?

[swilcox]

This to me highlights how unconfortable pigeon fanciers are with change?? We have a fragmented sport full of small fed, small prizes, half filled transporters and little PR, could we change it for the better, probaly not as we would allow it.

 

Somebody had pigeons flying for the first time in lives last weekend with the BBC at Poiters, probaly the fartherest some people would have ever had one of there pigeons fly and im sure the interest and excitment was immense, its what the sport is about, maybe the NFC should have a one loft race in Wiltshire (bang in the middle) to allow fanciers all over the world to compete with the NFC (There is a thought :)

 

My only comment to all it is i would have preferred to see all the birds flown under the name RPRA One Loft!!!!

[vanlink]

Thankyou hepste for trying to highlite that this is supposed to be a debate, so if we can try and keep it that way today please without personal insults.

 

i flew untrained youngster in my club 100 miles against 800 ?in my club are 11 household names multy nat winners fed winners now i took 3rd club 4fed on the south road was my win about top bird nope right place right time it just kept with the batch till they past me  he got lost following week never to be seen again  drag or best bird ???/drag

 

The above quote is a very good example of the use of drag, I have done it myself to test the theory with 12: 8-10 week old squeakers flying 100 miles with the club in their first race i scored 6th club and got them all back. They were ranging well prior to this and had about 3 10 mile tosses. How did i know they would do it? Because I knew they had the fitness and I knew they would stick together into the area and then they would find their way home once they started to split. Drag.

 

The whole of my training and racing has evolved based on this fact 'drag' My old birds have received no training this year and yet they are holding their own because they have the fitness and drag will bring them into the area. Last year my yb team had hardly any training because they had the fitness around the loft and then drag brought them into the area.

 

Sprint racers should be aware that the birds will stick together into an area then split, they have flown together. You should also be aware that you could have 20 birds go fairly close by your loft, 10 yours 10 some one else’s. One bird may split off and land and the others keep going eventually coming back but being a few minutes behind. I have seen this many times and others must have seen it too. It is possible that this could happen on a large longer race with your birds being some where near and then only one breaking off and the others going slightly wider bringing them 20 or so minutes behind.

 

I have said it before but I will say it again its drag that makes it so difficult for us in the international races because we do not quite have enough birds to work together away from the main European drag which is why Dennis fords performance last year was so good and noted.  

 

I am not 100 % sure but i think that the welsh national birds are not liberated from tarbes with the CSCFC because they do not want the race influenced by drag.

 

I think i am wrong to use an example of the one loft birds flying into the Malvern club because they are all flying into a small area so it makes no real difference, there is just a drag into the area then they split.

 

I think that if you say i am 100% wrong then you are saying there is no such thing as drag.

 

What about clashing is that not something to do with two races coming together and creating a drag into the more dominate area?

 

 

[vanlink]

Mike do you fly with the Severn Valley Fed then?

 

superstar, I do not fly with the severn valley, as you know i like to fly the big uns and i do not think that the severn valley because of the drag would give the best preperation for my birds (just my view) We fly in the same club and you and i both know how difficult it is to win the Hereford fed because of drag.

 

This to me highlights how unconfortable pigeon fanciers are with change??

 

Steve or stuart,(i think) I am not discounting this type of thing completely, i am mearly asking if it is fair and should it be allowed because it is a new concept. If we all say its good, good for the sport and lets execpt it, then great i am all for it, but please lets talk about it and not just enforce something. The members of the big clubs should be allowed to decide if they are happy via talking or voting to let a one loft race join them.

 

Hypothetical If Europa one loft were to ask to fly the birds for fed honours with the new north road fed for example then would it be reasonable to consult with the members first. ?

[superstar]

 

superstar, I do not fly with the severn valley, as you know i like to fly the big uns and i do not think that the severn valley because of the drag would give the best preperation for my birds (just my view) We fly in the same club and you and i both know how difficult it is to win the Hereford fed because of drag.

 

 

Well we've both done it so must say something for our birds eh! Lets face it our club is not the most favourable in the Fed yet we can still hold our own. Not many members in our club that haven't topped the Fed and even the more favourable positioned clubs can't boast that. They might have more Fed wins but usually just a couple of names doing it and more often due to prevailing winds and position. We still soldier on though even when things are not in our favour but thats pigeon racing for you if you ask me!

If you want my tilt on it your wrong in saying the Severn Valley wouldn't give you the best preperation for your birds, because if I was ever to get interested in Classics and Nationals then that is the sort of thing I would want my birds learning to break from simple as that! You need a good pigeon to win where we are not some half starved follower thats for sure and education is the key even then to even winning in our Club let alone the Fed and beyond.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gooner]

personally i think if a fancier wants to mob fly then thats there business and there money, i have flown in clubs where someone sends 60+ birds a week, yes they won some but not all, others still won, and when you beat them you feel even better about it, it only takes one bird to beat them, at the end of theday would youi rather win a race flying against 100 birds or 200 birds, my own opinion is the more the merryier

[superstar]

Hey Gooner yours is still here and 1 Vs 27 now lol

[gooner]

thats good ive still got five left in my fed bb as well

[vanlink]

If you want my tilt on it your wrong in saying the Severn Valley wouldn't give you the best preperation for your birds, because if I was ever to get interested in Classics and Nationals then that is the sort of thing I would want my birds learning to break from simple as that! You need a good pigeon to win where we are not some half starved follower thats for sure and education is the key even then to even winning in our Club let alone the Fed and beyond.

 

I agree with you to a point superstar, yes you certainly do not want a follower especially where we live but my thoughts on preparation have changed.

One thing that I enjoy is exploring and talking about the wonderful spectacle of pigeon racing. The amazing things that they do and the times when they do things that challenge our belief. It is not Black and White. There are times when a cause could give an effect many years later, so that what happens with a yb could affect it as an old bird perhaps. I believe that a pigeon does not need to be taught how to navigate, that great gift they already have, Just think about the millions of examples including when I stray comes to your loft and is then tossed next day 50 miles away and comes back. I have done it many times. That stray has not been taught to fly to your loft yet it knows how to do it.

 

I do not think that it is completely the education that you give to a bird but rather the bird it self. Yes of course their will be extremes either way; if you cut its wings off then it will not come home but how much of a birds ability is down to our influence? What about when some one takes a retired bird out of the stock loft and it wins a race? Natural ability has allowed that to happen. And I know it has been done.

 

It is based on my decision that I believe that a bird has the ability combined with the fact that I want birds with that ability that has influenced my training peroration for the national races. I am not the first to practise this method as I think that the late great Jim biss followed a similar thought by which he did not enter his yearlings with the nationals choosing to send them with the fed instead to keep them safer and closer to home.

 

I have visited the Deweerts and if ever there was an example of going against conventional thinking that’s the place, their preparation methods opened my eyes.

I won’t go into it now but it is a long drawn out process over many years before they actually compete for real yet they have belief and confidence in their birds which proves right time and time again.

  

 

Slightly off track but still relevant, remember when we were kids and we would all train the birds in a cycle wheel direction at all points of the compass and then some one said ‘why do this?’ lets just train them on a line of flight.    

 

So based on all this My training preparation is all about trying to keep the birds as close to a home line as possible with a club/fed offering the truest line I can and also trying to keep the birds as safe as possible with safety in numbers. They will still get fit and I am not testing their ability to break. With all the hawks about especially over the forest of dean and severn estuary I want to minimise the chances of my bird being hit by hopefully being in a kit giving better odds of surviving for the big race. If they were to go with the severn valley fed then they would as you say have to break and fly on their own at risk for no real gain. After all this I can then deliver them to a national, fit and ready to be tested for real and if they should succeed then this will be bred into the next generation adding to the evolution.

 

If you want to see what I mean about navigation then read this article about the truly remarkable swift. http://www.iprr.co.uk/cms/?news=917

[blaz]

well you can vote all you want one loft racing is hear to STAY and thats a FACT

[vanlink]

that it may be but should it be allowed in normal races?

[Guest dogeon]

;D ;D ;D just had a wonderful thought

the RPRA 1 loft will need to race this yrs y/b's as yearlings

they will get my vote to join the club Vanlink is in     ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

but then again its made my pigeons better in my opinion, as i'm a novice racer with just two yrs experience and have had 2 x 1st  1 x 4th and 2 x fed cards (maybe a third 1 for this week)

so it will be a privellage to race against the TOP name pigeon flyers birds again this coming year i welcome the 1 loft back to our club in the severn valley fed

 

 

[chichichi]

Why doesn't the original person who posted add a poll to the thread,, with about 3 options to answer.. It would be interesting.. If people are voting without showing their names you will get a balenced view of fanciers thoughts around the country.. Lots don't answer just in case someone gets offended..

 

I have birds at the young bird 1 loft this year and they might be in the yearling loft if still there at the end,, So to get the thoughts of everyone would be nice to see..

 

best of luck

 

ant

[vanlink]

good idea. I will add poll, what should the options be?

 

Does the poll have to be a new thread?

[chichichi]

you could add a few options,,

 

1 - FOR - 1 loft entering other races (club, fed, national.)

 

2 - AGAINST -  1 loft entering other races (club, fed, national.)

 

3 - unsure about this situation.

 

this would answer things.

 

best of luck

 

ant

[vanlink]

I think we should keep every thing out in the open. So this is the PM I received a short time ago asking me to stop debating this subject, despite my constant apologies, despite my constant acknowledgement that perhaps the 1 loft birds did not help you win the section and despite me praising your flying abilities and loft management skill you still insist on hounding me. Why are you stalking me? One comment, one time, let it go. You are the manager of a 1-loft race, yes, but that does not mean that you can stop me or any 1 else talking about 1-loft races. It is a shame because this subject will probably get locked or wiped and there are issues that some of us want to talk about.  

 

Dear Mr Link

I asked you to stop on pigeon basics yesterday and I still see you have not and now even going to put a poll up. I have taken copies of Everything you have wrote about me or the RPRA one loft race and have emailed this to my Lawyer. As I am self employed and have a contract with the RPRA my living is racing and selling pigeons. Your first post i considered to be undermining my performance in the NFC winning the section by saying that the one loft birds brought mine home which you have emitted this in writing that it was untrue what you have wrote. Then after a considerable time removed which I still have of copy of your posting. But the Damage had been Done!!! My lawyer has advised me that we have a very good case to take you to court as you have brought my reputation into dispute which can result in a loss of earnings with Sales etc and further contracts. I am also thinking of taking you to the region under the 168 rule of UN gentlemanly conduct which I feel I will have a very good case. If this rubbish is not removed within 24hrs i certainly will take further action.

Jeremy Davies...

 

[superstar]

 

I agree with you to a point superstar, yes you certainly do not want a follower especially where we live but my thoughts on preparation have changed.

One thing that I enjoy is exploring and talking about the wonderful spectacle of pigeon racing. The amazing things that they do and the times when they do things that challenge our belief. It is not Black and White. There are times when a cause could give an effect many years later, so that what happens with a yb could affect it as an old bird perhaps. I believe that a pigeon does not need to be taught how to navigate, that great gift they already have, Just think about the millions of examples including when I stray comes to your loft and is then tossed next day 50 miles away and comes back. I have done it many times. That stray has not been taught to fly to your loft yet it knows how to do it.

 

I do not think that it is completely the education that you give to a bird but rather the bird it self. Yes of course their will be extremes either way; if you cut its wings off then it will not come home but how much of a birds ability is down to our influence? What about when some one takes a retired bird out of the stock loft and it wins a race? Natural ability has allowed that to happen. And I know it has been done.

 

It is based on my decision that I believe that a bird has the ability combined with the fact that I want birds with that ability that has influenced my training peroration for the national races. I am not the first to practise this method as I think that the late great Jim biss followed a similar thought by which he did not enter his yearlings with the nationals choosing to send them with the fed instead to keep them safer and closer to home.

 

I have visited the Deweerts and if ever there was an example of going against conventional thinking that’s the place, their preparation methods opened my eyes.

I won’t go into it now but it is a long drawn out process over many years before they actually compete for real yet they have belief and confidence in their birds which proves right time and time again.

  

 

Slightly off track but still relevant, remember when we were kids and we would all train the birds in a cycle wheel direction at all points of the compass and then some one said ‘why do this?’ lets just train them on a line of flight.    

 

So based on all this My training preparation is all about trying to keep the birds as close to a home line as possible with a club/fed offering the truest line I can and also trying to keep the birds as safe as possible with safety in numbers. They will still get fit and I am not testing their ability to break. With all the hawks about especially over the forest of dean and severn estuary I want to minimise the chances of my bird being hit by hopefully being in a kit giving better odds of surviving for the big race. If they were to go with the severn valley fed then they would as you say have to break and fly on their own at risk for no real gain. After all this I can then deliver them to a national, fit and ready to be tested for real and if they should succeed then this will be bred into the next generation adding to the evolution.

 

If you want to see what I mean about navigation then read this article about the truly remarkable swift. http://www.iprr.co.uk/cms/?news=917

 

All very interesting that Mike and something for plenty of people to digest on. Yes your right that pigeons have an inbuilt sence of direction, like many birds especially migrant species and there are plenty of them, Swifts as you mention, Swallows, to name but a couple and the good old Cuckoo, which to me is a real clever bugger as he has to make his own way in life from day one and could never be part of a pack! This is the same instinct that man has nurtured in pigeons for thousands of years for various reasons, beit message carrying, racing or whatever. It is still all about education of the bird though, it is no good thinking "well I will let the birds stay home and mature then try racing them as yearlings or two yr olds" as you will be left with very, very few birds if any and the people that trained well and educated their birds have stolen such a march on you that you will be playing catch up for sure. Your right about the Severn estury and Forest of Dean through to Ross-on-Wye being a night mare to fly through but that is another problem that needs addressing and something that we just have to except and put up with at the moment. I can understand for that reason you have kept your birds home as much as posible but that isn't the way for me. I will be back racing YB's this year and believe me they will be well trained to the point of being hammered and If there is only one or two left so beit but they will be one or two good 'uns thats for sure. Thats the way I did it and you know from old I can race a pigeon so it cant be wrong as I was taught how and why by far greater fanciers than ever I will be, people that had won things that most of us can only ever dream about.

Rather than all this sniping at other organisations and people dont you think it would be better to address the more urgent maters like getting some protection of our birds from this hawk problem for example? Lets face it that is a problem that affects each and every one of us so why not channel a bit of your energy and enthusiasm along those lines, that way we might get heard eventually and perhaps some help will come our way, lets face it, its a bit over due! We all have different views and ways with our birds, thats pigeon racing, but this we are all in the same boat over and would be of more use than any debate over who's flying, what and where!

 

Just my opinion and mines a Stella ta!

 

 

[superstar]

Jeremy since when has it been ilegal to have an opinion in this country? You must have concerns yourself if this is the path you seek to tread from the off

[Guest numpty01]

it will cost him another tenner the way he is going  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest]

that it may be but should it be allowed in normal races?

 

It is already allowed in 'Normal' races, some I race against week in week out have 90 birds, or they did at start of season, still beat them with a team of 14, they pay their fees and foot the bills to race them so who am I to complain.  I take it as a feather in my cap if I kick the butt of the bigger team, it makes the victory all the sweeter.     Doesn't happen often but even once a season is good enough knowing I've gone up agaisnt a 'big player' and beat them.