yellow mealy

[Guest]

 

I look at the JAM THELEEN birds and the majority seem to be reds. I have not yet seen any website or article of their birds etcbut it appears reds are being being paired to reds in all the lofts where I have seen them.

 

Those recessive traits which you mention are if there generally hidden because they are recessive. By pairing 2 birds together who both carry them then the ybs can become that odd colour, inbreeding usually does bring it out if there.

Sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs.

 

No apologies needed Michael, i'm sincerely finding this thread very interesting! As far as i'm aware, Jan Theelan doesn't race anymore, and most of his birds were the noted Red colour, but not all of them. Perhaps Stuart Wilcox could enlighten us a bit more about them, he's very knowledgable about continental strains, and we purchased a cracking Red Cock from him several years ago that was a Jan Theelan! The only other things that i know about them, are that many distance fanciers have successfully used the Theelans as crosses into their own family, and that they have worked extremely well in the UK crossed with Klak/Janssen bloodlines!

 

Top class postings from Glassfeather, though your knowledge of genetics has left me trailing in your wake, lol! In one of your postings, you say that pairing cetain colours together will give a percentage of non-viable youngsters, do you mean colourwise or will the offspring be of a weakened/deformed nature? Please bare with me as although i'm not thick, genetics and its terminology, although it intrigues me, is like a foriegn language to me, lol!

 

[Glassfeather]

Hi Dave,

 

It is lethal, so the offspring rarely make it out of the egg and those that do make it don't last more than a day or so. Heterozygotes, birds with only one copy of the gene, are just as hardy as non-Opals.

[Guest]

Hi Dave,

 

It is lethal, so the offspring rarely make it out of the egg and those that do make it don't last more than a day or so. Heterozygotes, birds with only one copy of the gene, are just as hardy as non-Opals.

 

Hi Graham,

thanks for the response. Intriguing to sy the least! Have you ever been involved in racing pigeons or are you purely a fancy pigeon fancier? I would love to know if you think by continually pairing the same colour together, for consistent generations / years, that this may affect the racing / homing ability of the racing birds bred like this? I have never been involved in fancy birds, but your knowledge on genetics is impressive to say the least! The only other person i know that could converse like that is Captain Cutcliffe! Thank you for your time and patience!

 

Dave

[Glassfeather]

Dave,

 

It's no problem, I'm always happy to talk pigeons! I have never raced pigeons, check out this post regarding my introduction to pigeons: http://forum.pigeonbasics.com/m-1129453239/s-21/#num21

Regarding your question on in-breeding, in my opinion the breeding doesn't matter, it's the selection that counts. Leon Whitney covers it very well in his book "The Basis of breeding Racing Pigeons", and points out that Cleopatra was the product of close inbreeding, from a series of incestuous partnerships. It can be a great tool for the elimination of undesireable traits, after all, how can we eliminate them if we don't know they are there? Just my views of course, no doubt others will disagree.

 

Graeme

 

[Larry Lucas]

Those "White barred mealies" are Dominant Opal pigeons. This is an autosomal dominant gene symbolised (Od) and it is lethal, two Dominant opals paired together will produce a % of non-viable young. Dominant Opal is responsible for some beautiful colourations in fancy pigeons, such as "Isabel":

 

"Isabel" is also a lethal gene in Dachshund dogs.

 

 

[Guest]

Dave,

 

It's no problem, I'm always happy to talk pigeons! I have never raced pigeons, check out this post regarding my introduction to pigeons: http://forum.pigeonbasics.com/m-1129453239/s-21/#num21

Regarding your question on in-breeding, in my opinion the breeding doesn't matter, it's the selection that counts. Leon Whitney covers it very well in his book "The Basis of breeding Racing Pigeons", and points out that Cleopatra was the product of close inbreeding, from a series of incestuous partnerships. It can be a great tool for the elimination of undesireable traits, after all, how can we eliminate them if we don't know they are there? Just my views of course, no doubt others will disagree.

 

Graeme

 

Hi Graeme,

emjoyed the introduction post, lol! It was Iron Man & Thor for me! Oh, and Captain Scarlet! I am in agreement with you regards the inbreeding of the birds, but dare not dally too far too much with it. If you double up on the good characteristics, you are in clover! But, if it goes / throws the other way ...........!! Still, i suppose thats the chance we take with all of our pairings. Did you study or work in genetics, or is it something you have picked up purely through the birds?

 

Dave

 

 

[Glassfeather]

Dave,

 

Apart from 'A' level biology at school, I haven't formally studied genetics, so mostly I have learned from the pigeons.

 

Graeme

[Guest beautyhomer]

I am a lover of the red colouring but i like the darker shades of red so i cross the reds with blacks / dark checkers but not velvets as the later breeds reds and barless mealys

 

The barless mealys produced will infact be Ash Red Spreads.Although they look the same they breed differently.Barless is recessive where as spread is dominant.

[OLDYELLOW]

my last bareless went to a friend bred  velvet blacks and reds

[Guest Freebird]

Mealy white bar. Not a very good picture.

 

I would say this bird has the REDUCED factor in its make up. Lovely bird.

 

[Guest Freebird]

picture of Old Yellow

That's a braw bird Mark.

 

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

it is said all pigeons carry the black genes is this true

[OLDYELLOW]

yup i loved having him , still got his line in my loft , im hoping to breed more like him next season

[steve]

yup i loved having him , still got his line in my loft , im hoping to breed more like him next season

 

nice looking bird oldyellow

are you still racing and winning with his offspring/line

[OLDYELLOW]

well see next year i wont make excuses but i bred a grandson should of been second club any age race bad trap but im sure the grandson i have is every bit as his grandad have 2 grandson cocks in team next year  

[Michael J Burden]

it is said all pigeons carry the black genes is this true

There is no such thing as a black gene. The gene is called spread, it causes the pigeons colour to be spread all over, in the case of blue turns it black, red mealy makes it a barless.

The chocolate has a type spreading which causes self yellows if dilute is present. Oldyellow has a self yellow pied hen.

[OLDYELLOW]

above is a father to daughter pairing

[Glassfeather]

This is a recessive yellow pigeon. It is the dilute of recessive red. Recessive red is inherited independently of the basic colours, it is an autosomal recessive gene. The pigeon in the photograph above is what some fancy pigeon breeders would consider "undeveloped" recessive yellow, in terms of colour. Recessive red and yellow have been developed in fancy breeds in order to intensify the colour, and to make it uniform throughout the plumage, without evidence of any underlying patterns or tail bar. Photographs of recessive red and yellow in some fancy breeds: