Its a difficult game

[swilcox]

Been training twice, both times the birds have hammered back and each time just one missing, today the peregrine hit into them a few secounds after they took to there air.

 

So two of my warriors down already thanks to the hawk.

 

I will be glad when the first race comes along!!!

[carlsberg]

lost 2 yearling cocks already to the hawk and not even started training yet but will still be sending to the open race on saturday

[invalidusername]

Been training twice, both times the birds have hammered back and each time just one missing, today the peregrine hit into them a few secounds after they took to there air.

 

So two of my warriors down already thanks to the hawk.

 

I will be glad when the first race comes along!!!

 

Shame you can't train the peregrine to enter an empty loft so that you could give him a talking to  :X

 

 

[Guest IB]

I know pigeons naturally flock together, but can't help wondering if we actually train our birds to become hawkmeat. There doesn't appear to be safety in numbers in the air. Anything but the smallest batch must attract attention.

 

Takes time, but single-up seems more appropriate than batch training. A lone pigeon maybe less likely to be seen as a good target than a batch?

[chubs]

Takes time, but single-up seems more appropriate than batch training. A lone pigeon maybe less likely to be seen as a good target than a batch?

 

probs not pal, having flown peregrines,  to them a lone bird can often be a weak bird, they only thing a flock does is give it a choice.

[Guest IB]

 

probs not pal, having flown peregrines,  to them a lone bird can often be a weak bird, they only thing a flock does is give it a choice.

 

I don't think its as cut and dried as that. Agree a lone bird obviously in trouble is a target, but single-up pigeons aren't weak or in trouble, they simply mimic nature.

 

I take my cue from the wild bird behaviour about here - I never see a batch of wood pigeons in flight; the most I've seen airborne at any one time is 3 - flying at 3 different levels - approx 100 yards apart - and each bird is staggered, on its own flightpath, one leading, one in the middle and the last one well to the rear.

 

The starlings when lifted by a hawk, break into a dozen small batches, each batch breaks in a different direction, the batches break to smaller ones, and the individuals don't fly dead straight line like pigeons do, they fly in a kinda up-and-down motion, like swimming through invisible waves in the sky.

 

 

[Guest casbri]

i keep hearing birds are sent training but not a lot getting back on day

[Guest scoobybob]

When getting back to his nest with one of  swilcox warriors.  Male peregrine says to female peregrine, “I few past scoobybobs place and see he is opening another takeaway”… : ??)

[Merlin]

 

 

Racing pigeon sadly dont posess the same survival instincts thats being honed on a daily basis that the wild birds posess,our domestication of them has blunted this aspect of their nature a lot,inso much they are now only capable of reacting to a strike, usually in sheer teror and panic, where as a wild bird is constantly trying to avoid a strike by raptors,

[swilcox]

All of mine are coming back except a single bird each time from 52 and 51, its now 50

[timbarra]

Been training twice, both times the birds have hammered back and each time just one missing, today the peregrine hit into them a few secounds after they took to there air.

 

So two of my warriors down already thanks to the hawk.

 

I will be glad when the first race comes along!!!

 

hi stu.

As your partners with Raymond, can you not house the breeders and race in Holland as partners, do you race in name partnership or seperate mate ?

it would solve hawk problems, you have my condolences when dealing with the hawk mate, had that last year myself when i reared 18 babies for myself, left with 15 i think, but they have now been bought by lucky people who will reap the benefits, cant race anyway due to other comitments.

just a thought matey

 

spencer

[Guest IB]

All of mine are coming back except a single bird each time from 52 and 51, its now 50

 

If you are training from the same place at the same time, then you are maybe setting a pattern, Stuart.

 

Members say a hawk making a successful strike returns to that location next day, same time. Maybe your next trainer needs to go to a different place , or changed to evening instead of morning, just in case ....

[timbarra]

All of mine are coming back except a single bird each time from 52 and 51, its now 50

 

hi again stu , how many pigeons ???? 50 !!!!!!  hawk cant miss a group like that, let them out in kits of 6-8 it might help. 50 pigeons is a big area to hit successfully!!

[Guest IB]

 

Racing pigeon sadly dont posess the same survival instincts thats being honed on a daily basis that the wild birds posess,our domestication of them has blunted this aspect of their nature a lot,inso much they are now only capable of reacting to a strike, usually in sheer teror and panic, where as a wild bird is constantly trying to avoid a strike by raptors,

 

Your post sparks a couple of memories, Merlin.

 

(1) Most of us dismissed it as nonsense when RSPB told us that we should be breeding birds 'with white patches on their bum'. They said a white bum confuses the hawk during the chase, allowing the pigeon to escape.

 

They said a pigeon 'will doo its thing' when chased by a hawk. By that I reckon some of their members have been watching individual attacks, and I reckon they have witnessed the pigeon 'ducking and diving' during an attack.

 

(2) Posted a year or so ago on a Cable TV programme which showed a hawk attack a lone pigeon in the air. Looked as if the hawk had misjudged it, cos it went flying straight past the pigeon during the dive.

 

They had to slow the film down to show what really happened. Just before the moment of strike, the pigeon 'fell backwards' out the sky and the hawk hit empty space.

 

So there does appear to be innate ability there to avoid being taken. Remember they are descended from the Rock Dove which inhabited the same rocky places as the peregrine and they had to know how to avoid being taken.

 

Its maybe that the racing pigeon doesn't get a chance to use these innate skills because of the lack of space when its part of a big flock, or its being bred / trained out of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Vic]

All of mine are coming back except a single bird each time from 52 and 51, its now 50

 

Join the lottery, more chance 1-49. ;D ;D  In fact You must have already scored.

Who else could fly to Brazil to buy an over the top pigeon? Sure you haven't pulled the "Bali Boy" in as a secret trainer and mentor.

[sherbs]

after a few years out i have just started back in the game my 14 babies have been out three times on the third day (yesterday) a cat came from nowhere and had a lunge at them, it missed, the birds scattered around roofs and whilst i was getting them down and in a sparrowhawk knocked one to the ground six feet away from me it looked at me and let the bird go as i tried to kick the little **** !  What a welcome back to pigeon racing not even training yet !  Anyone got any advice to deter sparrowhawks worried now that my loft might be in a hot spot, cats i can deal with. Be grateful for any thoughts cheers.

[swilcox]

Timbarra

 

We house and race pigeons in Hilversum and Bristol!!!

[Guest IB]

after a few years out i have just started back in the game my 14 babies have been out three times on the third day (yesterday) a cat came from nowhere and had a lunge at them, it missed, the birds scattered around roofs and whilst i was getting them down and in a sparrowhawk knocked one to the ground six feet away from me it looked at me and let the bird go as i tried to kick the little **** !  What a welcome back to pigeon racing not even training yet !  Anyone got any advice to deter sparrowhawks worried now that my loft might be in a hot spot, cats i can deal with. Be grateful for any thoughts cheers.

 

This is a link to the last thread on sparrowhawk attacks which contains collective advice from different members.

 

Things not mentioned (1) keep your birds in the day after the attack. It is reckoned hawk returns to scene of kill / near miss next day, same time. (2) Vary your routine, don't let the birds out same time every day (3) with youngbirds, don't let them outside unless they can fly, and fly strongly. Use the extra time inside to get control of them. They need to come in as soon as you call them, especially if you spot a hawk on the prowl (4) hawks don't fly for fun, they fly only to hunt. If you see one airborne, its hunting - so be on guard.

 

 

http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1205664391/s-0/

[DOVEScot]

If we get a sparrow hawk attack we keep them in for a time, this breaks the feeding cycle, if not they will just come back every day.

Perigrines on the other hand are looking for flocks and they will dive right into the middle and punch one litterly and catch it in mid air while stunned or take it off the ground. Perigrines will also seek out weak birds from the flock or as individuals

 

We are mixing up the issue of birds being released and wild birds or loft birds merely out for a fly, totally different issues regards attack patterns.

[gangster]

ive got 2 disagree with the theory that the perigrine only catches the weak....it takes any it can catch that includes your superstar racers...1 mistake bang gone!!!!!

[Guest REDFOXKRAUTHS]

dropped 6 this last week

[Merlin]

 

 

 

 

 

 

All and any preventive measures are capable of lasting for only a period of time,the only real alternative to feeding B.O.P. is to keep birds in lofts indefinitely,and this is not going to happen,is it beyond our ability to create some type of deterrent,as stated before the one true deterrent to all B.O.P is another namely The European Eagle Owl, who is the supreme aerial predator with a natural hatred for other birds of prey in particular Perigrine chicks,they are available at non astonomical monies to be bought,and no laws against keeping,training, flying, especially where there is perigrine activity,these predators have their own hunting area,designated and defended by themselves,how long are we prepared for our lofts and birds to be fodder stataions for these killers which are all the while increasing rapidily,chiefly due to the supply of our birds,proof of Eagle Owls soloution,being rapidity with which these blood sport enthuasists come on site as soon as we discuss it

[DOVEScot]

ive got 2 disagree with the theory that the perigrine only catches the weak....it takes any it can catch that includes your superstar racers...1 mistake bang gone!!!!!

 

Perigrines will take all options open to it for survival, a young or weak bird will attack and miss at times more often than a mature strong one. A mature or experience adult only hunts to feed, a young inexperienced one will hunt sometimes only to practice and feed, it may still be getting supplimented by it's parents till it learns it's skill

 

Loads of factors come into play when they are hunting, if it has been stuck on a cliff face for a few days due to really bad weather it will take the easiest option, that is when it may look for weaker birds :-/

 

[Merlin]

Regarding Perigrines they are capable of killing racing birds almost at will,its not a hunter in the true sense of the word,its a pure assasin on most occassions,surprise and velocity in its stoop,its two key elements,once these two have been expended without success,a pigeon has a fair chance of escape,the real damage is done when it stoops into a kit of pigeons,the sheer terror and panic resulting is capable of inflicting much more damage,dependant on terrain,than just killing a sigle bird,if we think it is bad now,wait until July,when this years young Perigrines are being taught to hunt by parent birds,pure carnage for our youngsters,and it goes on for weeks,until they are capable of killing for themselves. From a pigeon fanciers point of view the most sickening sight you could see.is a Tiercel and its hen killing race youngsters,at random,and transferring them to its three youngsters in mid air on a regular basis,dont forget this occurence takes place anywhere there are young Perigrine falcons as a body we have very little conception of the damage and destruction these B.O.P do on a regular basis. Youn bird losses have always been with us,but for the last few years are increasing alarmingly,coincideing with Perigrine population explosion,lets see what our young bird losses are this year.  

[jimmy white]

Regarding Perigrines they are capable of killing racing birds almost at will,its not a hunter in the true sense of the word,its a pure assasin on most occassions,surprise and velocity in its stoop,its two key elements,once these two have been expended without success,a pigeon has a fair chance of escape,the real damage is done when it stoops into a kit of pigeons,the sheer terror and panic resulting is capable of inflicting much more damage,dependant on terrain,than just killing a sigle bird,if we think it is bad now,wait until July,when this years young Perigrines are being taught to hunt by parent birds,pure carnage for our youngsters,and it goes on for weeks,until they are capable of killing for themselves. From a pigeon fanciers point of view the most sickening sight you could see.is a Tiercel and its hen killing race youngsters,at random,and transferring them to its three youngsters in mid air on a regular basis,dont forget this occurence takes place anywhere there are young Perigrine falcons as a body we have very little conception of the damage and destruction these B.O.P do on a regular basis. Youn bird losses have always been with us,but for the last few years are increasing alarmingly,coincideing with Perigrine population explosion,lets see what our young bird losses are this year.  

 

this , i have seen  , unfortunately on many occasions , and the carnage it has caused , allthough one might be killed out of one batch, the rest are so panick stricken , and will fly into anywhere for cover and in doing so, killing themseves and maiming themselves , the batch could be 10 or 100 the result is the same