Guest marksimpson Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 my meulemans have breed chocs but both parents are chocs i was told that if you have chocs they will only breed blues or slaty blue not chocs can anyone shed any light on this one for me yours in sport mark. rsvp please
joe61 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 mark timbarra is on site about 7 30 in the morning he can tell you about chocs oh happy days
joe61 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 hi mark just spoke to him he said you can ring him now if you want on 07989746150 oh happy days
Baz Hardman Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 First time i have heard that one,but if you have bred chocs from chocs then that is the proof unless you think another cock trod the hen.
Guest Thunder Birds Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 2 chocs (or recessive reds) together will only breed chocs but 2 blues / other colour can breed a choc providing each parent carries the choc gene which is less dominant than other colours.
Guest marksimpson Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 hi mark just spoke to him he said you can ring him now if you want on 07989746150 oh happy days just spoke with him top bloke give me some good info re this thanks joe
Guest TIMBARRA LOFTS Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 2 chocs (or recessive reds) together will only breed chocs but 2 blues / other colour can breed a choc providing each parent carries the choc gene which is less dominant than other colours. This gentleman is spot on the money, The recessive gene originates from the mother of DE OUDE VAN DEN BOSCHE , which is the cock of the golden couple of the Meulemans colony, the chocolate colour is expressed in slightly different shades and is popular with some people, I have this colour running through my entire loft and as I am aware have the recessive gene in 45 out of 46 breeders. it can be passed through generation to generation but will never show up unless the said individual carrying the gene is paired to another individual which also carries the gene, then 1 in 4 youngsters or 25% ratio chocolates will be bred. Chocolate paired to chocolate will breed 100% chocolates every nest. The chocolates are mainly good breeders and these should be paired to soilid coloured pigeons of the Meuleman line, which in turn if they carry the chocolate gene will breed you solid colours for racing and the odd chocolate for breeding loft, when you have a successful racer (solid colour) this can then be paired back into the chocolates you have bred , which continues the lines of the colony as pure for the traits desired.. winning races ! there are also many other attributes required to successfully breed the lines as you want, I will express this privately on the phone to anyone who wishes to know, as it can take a while to type things as you can appreciate. any other info needed please ask, i hope this has shed some light on what is a passion for me. kind regards spencer
Guest TIMBARRA LOFTS Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 Marksimpson , hi mark I just put some info up on the Meuleman/Van Den Bosche colony if this helps. It was good talking to you. The base of the Janssen-Van Den Bosche colony of Adriaan Wouters-Karel Meulemans is 'Oude Van Den Bosche' Belg67.6729926 of Karel Meulemans from the line of 'Vurige' and 'Witkopke' and the 'Blauw Janssen' Belg66.6122023 of Adriaan Wouters, this pair of pigeons are seen as probably the best breeding pair of all time, producing such children as the legendary 'Donkere Bosche' B69.6064701 being the first pigeon bred from the Golden Couple, followed by 'Merckx' B69.6653841 'Kadet' B72.6111169 'Junior' B70.6070880 'Schoon donker' B73.6261056 'Liebeling' B78.6250600 'Witneus' B73.6261175 'Medalon' B76.6371849 'Vuil Blauw 75' B75.6500041 'Prins' B76.6220346 'Donkere van 78' B78.6802064 'Benjamin' B79.6752570 'Bonte' B74.6733179 'Inteelt 80' B80.6835157 'Blauwe Witpen van78' B78.6768050 'Gelijgerie' B73.6261092 'Blauwe Witpen 73' B73.6261170'Tijger' B72.6111164 'some of the children are more famous than others but the list goes on, and all are champions in their own right, and top producers and founders of winning lofts world wide. Some of the best fanciers around the world have the Meulemans bloodlines in their lofts, fanciers such as August & Frank Daelemans, The Maestro Albert Babington, Gommaire Verbruggen, Herman Beverdam, William Geerts, Willy Van Berendonck, Raymond Hermes, Hans Eijerkamp, Morris Scheers, Elsacker-Jepson again the list is long, and a roll of who's who in the pigeon world. A second base line is that of 'Blauw Salen' B73.6535432 of Karel Salen and is Pure Janssen blood, mated to 'Oud Bourgske' B67.6237924 of mainly Janssen blood, from the old Adriaan Wouters line, this couple bred 'Blauw 704' which was paired onto 'Kadet' B72.6111169 son of the Golden Couple, and therefore combining the two lines perfectly, this bloodline runs into the present day champion 'Donkere Dax' B92.6170295, 1st National Dax, 2nd International 5,776 birds. The third line is that of Gus Hofkens, through 'Witpen Paenen' and 'Theeuweshen 035' and is another gold threaded bloodline which produced 'Bl white feather' which was mated to 'Schoon Donker' B73.6261056 again being a daughter from the Golden couple !! So combining the Hofkens line with that of the Van Den Bosche, this line is responsible for 'Malie 160' which flew 9 times taking 9 prizes, and present day Champion the 'Montagis' B88.6259245 1st Montagis, 2nd Bourges. Another Hofkens line that was influential was that of the 'Driebander' which was related to Hofkens 'Geschifte' and 'Fondman'. Other bloodlines which were also combined with the bloodline of the Golden Couple were those of Rene Stijnen, who bought pigeons from Jos Van Den Bosche along with Jef Van Riel of the Huyskens-Van Riel Tandem, also the name of Van Rhijn Kloeck appeared who also had Gus Hofkens bloodlines, which crossed successfully in combination with the Golden Couple Line. Karel Meulemans also obtained birds from his good friend Derdaele, who indecently kept nothing but Huyskens-Van Riel pigeons !! Further Pigeons in later years were those from Marien Pieterse through NL79.317909, a daughter from the Super Janssen pair 'Couple 17' NL76.550925 x B77.6229948, so its Janssen and Van Den Bosche in combination again. In later years bloodlines through the Van Gils/Schellekens, Georges Bolle, Leo Broeckx were added and proved successful, being responsible for Champions as 'Pantani' B96.6379868 '590' B96.6379590 '591' B96.6379591, Jonge Kadet' B93.6444292 also not forgetting 'Den Brave' B93.6444034, all descendents from the line of the Golden Couple, so to the present day this wonderful family of pigeons continue to astound the pigeon world.
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 Marksimpson , hi mark I just put some info up on the Meuleman/Van Den Bosche colony if this helps. It was good talking to you. The base of the Janssen-Van Den Bosche colony of Adriaan Wouters-Karel Meulemans is 'Oude Van Den Bosche' Belg67.6729926 of Karel Meulemans from the line of 'Vurige' and 'Witkopke' and the 'Blauw Janssen' Belg66.6122023 of Adriaan Wouters, this pair of pigeons are seen as probably the best breeding pair of all time, producing such children as the legendary 'Donkere Bosche' B69.6064701 being the first pigeon bred from the Golden Couple, followed by 'Merckx' B69.6653841 'Kadet' B72.6111169 'Junior' B70.6070880 'Schoon donker' B73.6261056 'Liebeling' B78.6250600 'Witneus' B73.6261175 'Medalon' B76.6371849 'Vuil Blauw 75' B75.6500041 'Prins' B76.6220346 'Donkere van 78' B78.6802064 'Benjamin' B79.6752570 'Bonte' B74.6733179 'Inteelt 80' B80.6835157 'Blauwe Witpen van78' B78.6768050 'Gelijgerie' B73.6261092 'Blauwe Witpen 73' B73.6261170'Tijger' B72.6111164 'some of the children are more famous than others but the list goes on, and all are champions in their own right, and top producers and founders of winning lofts world wide. Some of the best fanciers around the world have the Meulemans bloodlines in their lofts, fanciers such as August & Frank Daelemans, The Maestro Albert Babington, Gommaire Verbruggen, Herman Beverdam, William Geerts, Willy Van Berendonck, Raymond Hermes, Hans Eijerkamp, Morris Scheers, Elsacker-Jepson again the list is long, and a roll of who's who in the pigeon world. A second base line is that of 'Blauw Salen' B73.6535432 of Karel Salen and is Pure Janssen blood, mated to 'Oud Bourgske' B67.6237924 of mainly Janssen blood, from the old Adriaan Wouters line, this couple bred 'Blauw 704' which was paired onto 'Kadet' B72.6111169 son of the Golden Couple, and therefore combining the two lines perfectly, this bloodline runs into the present day champion 'Donkere Dax' B92.6170295, 1st National Dax, 2nd International 5,776 birds. The third line is that of Gus Hofkens, through 'Witpen Paenen' and 'Theeuweshen 035' and is another gold threaded bloodline which produced 'Bl white feather' which was mated to 'Schoon Donker' B73.6261056 again being a daughter from the Golden couple !! So combining the Hofkens line with that of the Van Den Bosche, this line is responsible for 'Malie 160' which flew 9 times taking 9 prizes, and present day Champion the 'Montagis' B88.6259245 1st Montagis, 2nd Bourges. Another Hofkens line that was influential was that of the 'Driebander' which was related to Hofkens 'Geschifte' and 'Fondman'. Other bloodlines which were also combined with the bloodline of the Golden Couple were those of Rene Stijnen, who bought pigeons from Jos Van Den Bosche along with Jef Van Riel of the Huyskens-Van Riel Tandem, also the name of Van Rhijn Kloeck appeared who also had Gus Hofkens bloodlines, which crossed successfully in combination with the Golden Couple Line. Karel Meulemans also obtained birds from his good friend Derdaele, who indecently kept nothing but Huyskens-Van Riel pigeons !! Further Pigeons in later years were those from Marien Pieterse through NL79.317909, a daughter from the Super Janssen pair 'Couple 17' NL76.550925 x B77.6229948, so its Janssen and Van Den Bosche in combination again. In later years bloodlines through the Van Gils/Schellekens, Georges Bolle, Leo Broeckx were added and proved successful, being responsible for Champions as 'Pantani' B96.6379868 '590' B96.6379590 '591' B96.6379591, Jonge Kadet' B93.6444292 also not forgetting 'Den Brave' B93.6444034, all descendents from the line of the Golden Couple, so to the present day this wonderful family of pigeons continue to astound the pigeon world. what a great post ,50% of the battle is nowing your birds and you do
Guest TIMBARRA LOFTS Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 Thank you Whitenight, I try to do my best and your correct, people should know their birds. I have spent years studying and I hope to help anyone who needs it. cheers
korhil Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 hi spencer, can you help me ? with the winning lottery numbers ?
Guest TIMBARRA LOFTS Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 ;Dhi spencer, can you help me ? with the winning lottery numbers ? Hi mate , of course i can help .... errrr 5, 17, 19, 26, 33, 39, hope this helps mate, if you do these everyweek for erm the next so many years they may well come in. ;D ;D Anyway harry is doing ok with that football team of yours ! that one bloke who does not need help at the moment .. ;D ;D ;D hope your well mate, and as soon as the lofts are settled come over for coffee, it be good to see you again.
korhil Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 thanks mate , err can you lend me a quid ? lol
Guest TIMBARRA LOFTS Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 thanks mate , err can you lend me a quid ? lol err no lol ;D ;D
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 The base of the Janssen-Van Den Bosche colony of Adriaan Wouters-Karel Meulemans is 'Oude Van Den Bosche' Belg67.6729926 of Karel Meulemans from the line of 'Vurige' and 'Witkopke' and the 'Blauw Janssen' Belg66.6122023 of Adriaan Wouters, this pair of pigeons are seen as probably the best breeding pair of all time, producing such children as the legendary 'Donkere Bosche' B69.6064701 being the first pigeon bred from the Golden Couple, followed by 'Merckx' B69.6653841 'Kadet' B72.6111169 'Junior' B70.6070880 'Schoon donker' B73.6261056 'Liebeling' B78.6250600 'Witneus' B73.6261175 'Medalon' B76.6371849 'Vuil Blauw 75' B75.6500041 'Prins' B76.6220346 'Donkere van 78' B78.6802064 'Benjamin' B79.6752570 'Bonte' B74.6733179 'Inteelt 80' B80.6835157 'Blauwe Witpen van78' B78.6768050 'Gelijgerie' B73.6261092 'Blauwe Witpen 73' B73.6261170'Tijger' B72.6111164 'some of the children are more famous than others but the list goes on, and all are champions in their own right, and top producers and founders of winning lofts world wide. Some of the best fanciers around the world have the Meulemans bloodlines in their lofts, fanciers such as August & Frank Daelemans, The Maestro Albert Babington, Gommaire Verbruggen, Herman Beverdam, William Geerts, Willy Van Berendonck, Raymond Hermes, Hans Eijerkamp, Morris Scheers, Elsacker-Jepson again the list is long, and a roll of who's who in the pigeon world. A second base line is that of 'Blauw Salen' B73.6535432 of Karel Salen and is Pure Janssen blood, mated to 'Oud Bourgske' B67.6237924 of mainly Janssen blood, from the old Adriaan Wouters line, this couple bred 'Blauw 704' which was paired onto 'Kadet' B72.6111169 son of the Golden Couple, and therefore combining the two lines perfectly, this bloodline runs into the present day champion 'Donkere Dax' B92.6170295, 1st National Dax, 2nd International 5,776 birds. The third line is that of Gus Hofkens, through 'Witpen Paenen' and 'Theeuweshen 035' and is another gold threaded bloodline which produced 'Bl white feather' which was mated to 'Schoon Donker' B73.6261056 again being a daughter from the Golden couple !! So combining the Hofkens line with that of the Van Den Bosche, this line is responsible for 'Malie 160' which flew 9 times taking 9 prizes, and present day Champion the 'Montagis' B88.6259245 1st Montagis, 2nd Bourges. Another Hofkens line that was influential was that of the 'Driebander' which was related to Hofkens 'Geschifte' and 'Fondman'. Other bloodlines which were also combined with the bloodline of the Golden Couple were those of Rene Stijnen, who bought pigeons from Jos Van Den Bosche along with Jef Van Riel of the Huyskens-Van Riel Tandem, also the name of Van Rhijn Kloeck appeared who also had Gus Hofkens bloodlines, which crossed successfully in combination with the Golden Couple Line. Karel Meulemans also obtained birds from his good friend Derdaele, who indecently kept nothing but Huyskens-Van Riel pigeons !! Further Pigeons in later years were those from Marien Pieterse through NL79.317909, a daughter from the Super Janssen pair 'Couple 17' NL76.550925 x B77.6229948, so its Janssen and Van Den Bosche in combination again. In later years bloodlines through the Van Gils/Schellekens, Georges Bolle, Leo Broeckx were added and proved successful, being responsible for Champions as 'Pantani' B96.6379868 '590' B96.6379590 '591' B96.6379591, Jonge Kadet' B93.6444292 also not forgetting 'Den Brave' B93.6444034, all descendents from the line of the Golden Couple, so to the present day this wonderful family of pigeons continue to astound the pigeon world. Very informative spencer, where was this taken from? The pencil cock i posted a pic of was from a choc and pencil. I bred two chocs one from each of his full brothers. I paire these together and in the first nest they threw a choc and a pencil. I never got to race these ones but my cousin has (or had ) the choc, and paired it to a cousin and its never thrown a choc since, much to the dismay of his grandchildren!
BLACK W F Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 YES THAT jANNSEN BLOOD MADE A LOT OF LOFTS
Guest TIMBARRA LOFTS Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 Very informative spencer, where was this taken from? The pencil cock i posted a pic of was from a choc and pencil. I bred two chocs one from each of his full brothers. I paire these together and in the first nest they threw a choc and a pencil. I never got to race these ones but my cousin has (or had ) the choc, and paired it to a cousin and its never thrown a choc since, much to the dismay of his grandchildren! good morning Mick, the choc your cousin has maybe paired to a meuleman which does not all carry the gene, this gene can be lost through generations as with the HVR pigeons as they were not inbred to the level of Meulemans & Wouters bloodline. Also this information is from my website as it was easier to take it from there than to write it again, the information is gained through conversations with Top meuleman enthusiasts around the E.U and from the books written on the family of birds. thanks for your nice comment. greetings spencer
Guest TIMBARRA LOFTS Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 YES THAT jANNSEN BLOOD MADE A LOT OF LOFTS Janssen bloodlines run through alot of pigeons around the world, Karel Meuleman used it as do many people, The Janssen brothers had by far the most expensive pigeons in Arendonk but not nessacerely the best. regards spencer
BLACK W F Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 I THINK YOU ARE WRONG MATE THEY ARE THE BASE OF MOST FAMILYS
swilcox Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 Spencer Do chocolates possess any racer ability? ive only heard of one to my knowledge that has won on the road??? We have a couple of lines of Meulemans that win really well Gerriston Looyend and Jan De Ruiter but the chocolate birds have gone from these families, its interesting to note that they are smaller than they were 10 years ago aswell. Stu
Guest TIMBARRA LOFTS Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 I THINK YOU ARE WRONG MATE THEY ARE THE BASE OF MOST FAMILYS They are the base of most families yes, but not nessecerely the best in Arendonk, this was told to a certain person when he visited Arendonk to buy the best birds there.. he was told this and was told to go to Aadrian Wouters.. not Janssen Bros. The rest is history. but Alan thats your opinion mate, its valued.
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 Stu, i know Bailey Bros had a choc cock that had won, may of even been two. But they told me to put the hens in the stock loft and either race or bin the cocks!!
Guest TIMBARRA LOFTS Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 Spencer Do chocolates possess any racer ability? ive only heard of one to my knowledge that has won on the road??? We have a couple of lines of Meulemans that win really well Gerriston Looyend and Jan De Ruiter but the chocolate birds have gone from these families, its interesting to note that they are smaller than they were 10 years ago aswell. Stu Hi Stu, The chocolates are said to be better breeders , but I know of people who have raced them succesfully but as you say ,not many have done this, they are as I said best put onto a solid coloured pigeon of the same lines, or even crossed, but in doing that you chance losing the gene for chocolate. The chocolates I have are not smaller than they were 10 years ago, My birds and i can only comment on my birds and people I have them from ie; Herman Beverdam, Gerard and Ries Schalwijk are not smaller.... they maintained the type. cheers spencer
gangster Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 i had a good pair of brothers 61&62 a pencil and a dark cheq...i crossed a brother of my old igor cock a de-klak on a direct pencil meuleman hen , they both flew well for me 62 the pencil won mangotsfield for me.....
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