Guest mick bowler Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Treat when you get it Josh, might ruin your season but you could do that treating as a preventative! Never seen it, never treated for it in 33 years, but not to say its not around but i will worry about it when i have to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 So are you saying its best not to treat as a preventative? What I am saying is that there are different schools of thought on this. You need to know the arguments, then make up your own mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joshdonlan Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holmsidelofts Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 What I am saying is that there are different schools of thought on this. You need to know the arguments, then make up your own mind. I agree with IB it has to be your decision. there are plenty of top vets, dr colin walker, wim peters, johan van der cruyssen, dr zsolts talaber, dr pascal lanneau, dr gordon chalmers just to name a few who have written very good articles on salmonella, and its treatments. These are the people you need to take advice from they are the experts in there field. My advice would be spend £40 get the salmonella test done, then if you havent got it leave things alone. if you do have it you have no alternative but to treat but not with parastop. use the correct product for the job. Jas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 I have done my homework. I have just added a series of questions on the baytril thread answered by some of the top pigeon vets and they are all 100% agreed that you must treat prior if there is any signs of salmonella in the loft and amoxyclin or baytril is there preferred method of treatment. Jas. Sorry for the seeming delay in replying, I have had a devil of a job posting and this will be by second attempt. My reply was for joshdolan, and on a specific point he raised. What I pointed out was that there are at least two schools of thought on this, you have posted up only one. So you can not claim to have donme your homework because you have not given joshdolan all the facts from which an informed decision can be made. The clue lies in the current thread on the board by a member who has carried out this recommended procedure to the letter, he's now got what looks like a paratyphoid outbreak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holmsidelofts Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Sorry Ib you need to get your facts right. first up you say i only give one side of the argument whats the point of repeating what you have already said. you say someone has a suspected case after treatment, you have no proof in that. until its confirmed by a lab all you are doing is spreading info thats in accurate. I would go along with the experts everytime and the majority not the minority most of the top pigeon vets all say the same regarding treatment. i could put up loads of articles written by the experts but all i would be doing is repeating what i have already said. regarding the article you listed again whats the point of putting it back up when its available on another thead. I not here to argue with you and i have no intentions of doing that. The only way for josh to be sure is to send droppings off to a lab for the test. that way he can be 110% sure if treatment is required. Jas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 I have recently asked one of the top avian Vets in This Country to advise me on how to deal with Paratyphoid Vaccinations. His advice was ten days either amoxicillin or baytril, then three/four days milti vits and then vaccinate with a live vaccine. So as I have had the best of advice from this Vet for years, I will be giuded by him. The arguements about Baytril causing the disease to spread can not be right. I have used live vaccine and the antibiotics mentioned for years past. If there was any truth in this arguement I would have lost all my birds by now. So until something happens to change my mind, I will carry on with what has worked well for me. I find that there are plenty on here that want to tell you what not to do but can not follow up with information on what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdog Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 I have recently asked one of the top avian Vets in This Country to advise me on how to deal with Paratyphoid Vaccinations. His advice was ten days either amoxicillin or baytril, then three/four days milti vits and then vaccinate with a live vaccine. So as I have had the best of advice from this Vet for years, I will be giuded by him. The arguements about Baytril causing the disease to spread can not be right. I have used live vaccine and the antibiotics mentioned for years past. If there was any truth in this arguement I would have lost all my birds by now. So until something happens to change my mind, I will carry on with what has worked well for me. I find that there are plenty on here that want to tell you what not to do but can not follow up with information on what to do. sense at last, well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy white Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 I have recently asked one of the top avian Vets in This Country to advise me on how to deal with Paratyphoid Vaccinations. His advice was ten days either amoxicillin or baytril, then three/four days milti vits and then vaccinate with a live vaccine. So as I have had the best of advice from this Vet for years, I will be giuded by him. The arguements about Baytril causing the disease to spread can not be right. I have used live vaccine and the antibiotics mentioned for years past. If there was any truth in this arguement I would have lost all my birds by now. So until something happens to change my mind, I will carry on with what has worked well for me. I find that there are plenty on here that want to tell you what not to do but can not follow up with information on what to do. with due respect and most certainly not wanting to rock the boat,,,,, i had a complete novice come to me , and ask my advice on sick pigeons , after seeing these pigeons i suspected paratyphoid/salmonella. immediately i took one for post portem, which confirmed my suspicion,, the advice i got from this vet was ,,as above,[but baytrill rather than amoxy] this was adhered to as explained by vet,,, now approx two months later these birds are breeding and rearing young birds,, no probs have occurred since , this advice was given by the sacc, [scottish agricultural coledge] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 baytril/ amoxycylin. are to of them. remember parastop is an antibiotic and is not registered for use in the uk, Parastops active ingredient is Norfloxacin a Quinolone class antibiotic. dont abuse it. In fact i wouldnt even use it. its not that great a product in my opinion. jas is baytril and parastop the same type of anti are they not both quinolones ? is parastop registered as an avian product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 if you dont treat for paratyhoid,then when it does call your wish you had done it. ive seen birds (not mine)have problems and those fanciers say..how did i get it?..i tell them truthfully..god knows! but act quick and sensibly and your cut down the chance of it giving you further problems. its ok if this attacks the legs ..but if your unfortunate enough to have it in the wing joints then wave goodbye to that bird racing,it stiffens the wing joint and they will not fly ok after that. there may be extreme cases where they make a recovery in the wing but you might just be the one it doesnt clear up on. which ever way you treat,dont scrimp on this...you may never get it ! ..but then again you might! :'( theres been some very useful advice given by some reliable fanciers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 if you dont treat for paratyhoid,then when it does call your wish you had done it. ive seen birds (not mine)have problems and those fanciers say..how did i get it?..i tell them truthfully..god knows! but act quick and sensibly and your cut down the chance of it giving you further problems. its ok if this attacks the legs ..but if your unfortunate enough to have it in the wing joints then wave goodbye to that bird racing,it stiffens the wing joint and they will not fly ok after that. there may be extreme cases where they make a recovery in the wing but you might just be the one it doesnt clear up on. which ever way you treat,dont scrimp on this...you may never get it ! ..but then again you might! :'( theres been some very useful advice given by some reliable fanciers we all use these products what do you think of theraprim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 we all use these products what do you think of theraprim? havent used it , but have a look at this.. http://www.oropharma.nl/en/duiven/html/theraprim.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 havent used it , but have a look at this.. http://www.oropharma.nl/en/duiven/html/theraprim.html seems good stuff strapper we used it last year thats why i asked just wondered if anybody else had used it but will try with coximed as recommended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 seems good stuff strapper we used it last year thats why i asked just wondered if anybody else had used it but will try with coximed as recommended recognised the name as ive seen it b4,i think when i had a chest infection i was given it by the docs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 recognised the name as ive seen it b4,i think when i had a chest infection i was given it by the docs. yeah my mate kept getting recurring infections after he had snip and gave him months supply after other anti's did'nt work no bother since ;D ;D ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Look lads we all know what we want to do. Produce healthy pigeons that win races. That is the easy bit. But most of us are not sure how to do it. And most of us do not want to get a science degree to follow our hobby. So I will always want to KISS (keep it simple stupid) because I feel stupid some of the time. My approach to breeding, feeding or health will always be geared around that idea. OK I am quite lucky to have had some training in livestock management. And I have attended courses in the use of a microscope which have prooved to be invaluable especially as the courses cover a lot more than just the manipulation of the microscope. But the crunch is that I need to know how to set about doing the things that have to be done. A management plan if you want to be posh. So when it comes to the business of protecting the birds against paratyphoid or any other threat, I need to know two things. What I should do and when and exactly how to do what ever I need to do. In short I don't think I need to be a qualified motor engineer to drive a car. I will leave the heavy science to the likes of the Vet I know, and trust, rather than try to figure out the science, that is his job. And anything I pick up along the way I will willingly share with other pigeon people in an attempt to help them as a friend. The people who want to agrue and show off can carry on because I am not sure that they are really helping anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest frank dooman Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 no disrespect i would like to put this ques to the 2 experts on here owen/holmside nearly every thing you buy for cocci/canker etc all say they treat for salmonella /parathphiod when you read them orni/dox and many more so why do we need all of thease?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Look lads we all know what we want to do. Produce healthy pigeons that win races. That is the easy bit. But most of us are not sure how to do it. And most of us do not want to get a science degree to follow our hobby. So I will always want to KISS (keep it simple stupid) because I feel stupid some of the time. My approach to breeding, feeding or health will always be geared around that idea. OK I am quite lucky to have had some training in livestock management. And I have attended courses in the use of a microscope which have prooved to be invaluable especially as the courses cover a lot more than just the manipulation of the microscope. But the crunch is that I need to know how to set about doing the things that have to be done. A management plan if you want to be posh. So when it comes to the business of protecting the birds against paratyphoid or any other threat, I need to know two things. What I should do and when and exactly how to do what ever I need to do. In short I don't think I need to be a qualified motor engineer to drive a car. I will leave the heavy science to the likes of the Vet I know, and trust, rather than try to figure out the science, that is his job. And anything I pick up along the way I will willingly share with other pigeon people in an attempt to help them as a friend. The people who want to agrue and show off can carry on because I am not sure that they are really helping anybody. tottally know where you coming from owen and i agree with you but most vets know less than a lot of good fanciers personally i use a very good fancier near to use and like you and others on pb offer sound advice and testing and in my opinion knows more than the 3 vets practices in our area JMO dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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