YOUNG BIRD SICKNESS

[Guest]

Cut-down extract from web journal, dated 2000. Note: Adenovirus causes gastroenteritis in humans and the following relates to humans, but its principles remain the same for pigeons. It describes the host’s defences i.e. the body’s natural immune systems’ response to a viral infection……….

 

Adenoviruses induce only very low levels of morbidity in general and this characteristic initially seemed to make them attractive as gene vectors. However, on closer scrutiny, it becomes evident that a well-orchestrated host defence is the key factor in the suppression of virus spread during infection and, since this could be just as effective against a vector, it becomes important to unravel the complex molecular operations involved in mounting the host defences.

Host cells have a range of strategies to combat any incursion by an intruder; these can be considered as innate and adaptive. With respect to the former, it has recently been established that some epithelial cells release 3–4 kDa antimicrobial peptides termed defensins and it has been shown that these compounds can provide significant protection from adenovirus infection. Indeed, an adenovirus vector expressing a defensin has been utilized to supplement innate defences. Some tissues, on receiving the appropriate signal will release multiple chemokines that, in turn, recruit neutrophils and invoke an inflammatory response. Innate defence mechanisms such as recruitment of macrophages, activation of complement and natural killer (NK) cells have been shown to play a significant role in clearing an adenovirus infection in vivo. The transcription factor NF- B appears to be a key regulator of the innate antiviral response  since it can activate the transcription of cytokines and adhesion molecules, leading to the production of a range of proinflammatory cytokines and the orchestration of other signalling pathways. It has been claimed that adenovirus infection, especially at high multiplicities, can lead to the activation of NF- B at early stages of infection.

 

…………….A bit on the technical side, but an added insight as to what is going on inside the bird and what it is capable of doing for itself. It also dispels the myth in this forum that nothing can kill a virus. 60 million year’s of evolution on the bird’s immune system proves otherwise.

 

Are you still willing to risk damaging a system like this through ignorance?

[jimmy white]

well this is not technical      geordie bain,  as in bain wallace and spalding, were the first members along with davie rose to win a gold award ,and george was the man that advised me to use milton, as he used it regular, if it was good enough for him its good enough for me jimmy

[Guest]

Seem to have got out wrong side of the bed this morning, James. Or has your glass of Milton not had the desired results perhaps?

Apologies offered to all from me for the misinformation I posted previously on Milton. After ferreting out the information for myself I see that it is a perfectly harmless product. And totally useless for the purposes you all seem so keen to put it to. Seems it turns to water and salt as soon as it touches the (bird’s) mouth. Well done all for stimulating a debate in which we have collectively put at least one piece of witchcraft to bed: .

 

What is Milton made of?

 

Milton Fluid is made of an aqueous solution of 2% sodium hypochlorite and 16.5% sodium chloride.

 

Hypochlorites are known to be unstable. Is Milton any different?

 

Yes, the purification process during the manufacture of Milton ensures complete removal of all heavy metal ions, which would normally act as a catalyst to chemically breakdown many hypochlorites, causing instability. Therefore accurate levels of available chlorine can be obtained with Milton.

 

Hypochlorite is bleach, which is toxic. Is Milton toxic also?

 

No. As stated above, toxicity in hypochlorites is due to the by-product of their

decomposition, sodium chlorate. With the heavy ions removed Milton decomposes into water and a small amount of sodium chloride (salt).

 

What are the main properties of Milton?

 

Stability. Non Toxicity.

 

It is known that Milton can be used as a disinfecting agent, but can it sterilise?

 

Milton will sterilise as long as the requirements for chemical sterilisation with hypochlorites is carried out. These are:

(a) Scrupulous attention to pre-cleansing of the item to be sterilised.

( Stability and lack of toxicity of the active agent.

© That the article to be sterilised is of a material compatible with hypochlorite

and is so constructed that it can be cleaned properly.

The Milton Method of cleaning bottle and teats incorporates these requirements.

 

What is the difference between Sterilisation, Disinfection and Antisepsis?

 

Official publications give the following definitions: (ref. Collins, C. H. and

Lyne,P. M., 1976)

 

Sterilisation: This is an absolute term meaning complete destruction or removal of all viable micro-organisms.

 

Disinfection: Describes the elimination or destruction of micro-organisms, but not usually bacterial spores. Generally applied to the process of making inanimate objects free from infection and safe to handle.

 

Antisepsis: Destruction of micro-organisms, but not bacterial spores, on skin, mucus membrane or living tissue to prevent sepsis.

 

Milton Fluid can be considered in terms of each of these actions depending on the specific situation or application.

 

Therefore a work surface can be wiped over with Milton to disinfect it by killing all 'live' bacteria, but it cannot be sterilised in this way. To sterilise an object it has to be scrupulously cleaned then soaked for the required time in a solution of Milton. This will kill spores.

 

Thrush is a common problem in babies. Will Milton kill thrush?

 

Milton will kill thrush within ten minutes. Milton will not cause thrush by killing off the normal commensal bacteria in the mouth. As soon as any Milton on a teat touches protein either in the bottle or in the mouth, it is neutralised into a small amount of salt.

 

What happens if a child swallows Milton?

 

Because of the salt in the solution in the bottle, the child will usually spit the fluid out, or at worst become sick. If they are not sick, there is no need to worry but a concerned parent can give the child a drink of milk. Milk being protein will neutralise the Milton.

 

Can Milton be used for other applications other than for sterilising a baby's feeding equipment?

 

You don't have to have a baby to use Milton. Because it is safe and not toxic, Milton can be used to disinfect kitchen work surfaces, chopping boards, wiping out fridges, microwaves, storage containers, pet bowls and bins. It can also be used to soak fruit and vegetables where the microbiological safety of such items is suspect.

 

[Guest]

I promised Mealybar that I would post this extract from the web on Virkon S as a disinfectant in water. I’ve left a bit of the front part on  (Cleaning & Disinfecting Equipment) to give headings to the columns as the grid lines disappeared when I downloaded it.

 

 

Task         Dilution         Application            

 

Cleaning & Disinfecting Equipment

                           

Farm Food Processing & Hatcheries         1:200-1:100

(0.5%-1%) depending on level of soiling         Use a pressure washer at low pressure (300psi) or other mechanical sprayer apply at a rate of 300ml/m².            

Virus Pre-soak. (To clean farm buildings in a specific virus control programme).         1:200 (0.5%)        

Pre-soak using a pressure washer at low pressure (300psi) or fan jet sprayer apply at a rate of 500ml/m² to all surfaces and leave for 30 minutes. Rinse thoroughly with water.            

                           

Water Sanitation

 

                           

Terminal Cleanout         1:200 (0.5%)        

Dose header tank and drain system leave for at least 1 hour and flush through with clean water.            

 

Continuous Water Sanitation         1:1000 (0.1%)         Dose header tank as required or apply through dosing system.            

                           

Water Sanitation        

Litres of water to be sanitised     Terminal Cleanout 1:200     Terminal Cleanout 1:200

100L

250L

500L

1000L     500g

1.25kg

2.5kg

5kg     100g

250g

500g

1kg

 

 

The part we are interested in is water sanitation and yes, Mealybar, on the face of it you are correct that Virkon can be used to disinfect water. But take a closer look at the water, where it comes from and what it is used for. It isn’t drinking water because it comes from a header tank (not even a cold water storage tank)  and is used for cleaning out operations within ‘the terminal’. Makes sense too, because there’s not much sense in hosing away the bugs in the manure on the ground when the water you are using is contaminated with salmonella, legionaires etc.

 

[Guest]

Well so much for that then, first bleeding grid lines go, then columns. Sorry about the dog's dinner.

[jimmy white]

no bruno i didnt get out the wrong side off bed, i just fell over my dictionary   once i digest all you have written, it might take some time,   i dont mean to be cheeky but its pigeon fanciers your talking to.  not mp,s in the houses of parliament ,im actualy finding it all amusing, i  allthough i do realise its a serious subject, and i really gennuinly find it interesting,let me have a good browze through, when i have time, and we can see what we make of it all   all the best jimmy

[jimmy white]

bruno now this is a very interesting topic, so lets try and keep it a topic and not an arguement , to come out with [bleeding dumplin] [ see a phsychiatrist] [having to apologise on at least two previous posts ] [take a sick bird to a fellow fancier] are, to my mind not conducive to good and sensible debate, so without all that, we may discuss things in a reasonable fashion,. first of all lets be freinds and enjoy a good discussion, as i do beleive you have made some good points, and obviously done your homework.now as you were very pleased with the vet that treated your bird with the broken wing,why dont we consult a vet, to find out the answer to the use of milton.i  have a reading here from DAVID PALMER the bhw vet,QUOTE,,,   KEEP THE DRINKING WATER CLEAN. BIRDS INEV ITABLEY SWILL OUT THEIR MOUTHS WHEN DRINKING, AND WILL LEAVE ANY CONTAGIOUS,INFECTIVE ORGANISMS IN THE DRINKER FOR THE NEXT BIRD TO PICK UP.THE SPREAD OF CANKER, ORNITHOSIS AND MYCOPLASMOSIS IS PARTICULARLY EASY BY THIS ROUTE, BUT DROPPINGS LEFT IN THE WATER WILL SPREAD SALMONELLA, CANKER,E.COLI, YB .,SICKNESS,,OTHER BACTERIAL DISEASE AND P.M.V.THE WATER MUST BE KEPT FRESH AND CLEAN AND THIS IS ACHEIVED BY FREQUENT CHANGING  OR THE USE OF A MILD HYPOCHLORITE DISINFECTANT, OF WHICH A TABLET OF     #MILTON# PER GALLON WILL DO NICELY.   UNQUOTE.  now who are we to beleive,??,      i have used milton on many occasions and found it does no harm whatsoever, now according to you it does nothing to the water. now if that is so,  its not harming the birds. if its not harming the birds it may have a placebo effect on me, even if the vet IS wrong??  if i think it is doing good then it is   [thats is the   placebo effect ,IF the vet is wrong] its just my opinion on the matter, please beleive me when i say i dont want to argue, im sure youll agree that,that gets us nowhere beleive me,but i feel its good to debate without losing freinds. I SINCERELY WISH YOU WELL JIMMY

[Guest]

Thanks for the confirmation Jimmy that I am rubbing people like yourself up the wrong way. Hopefully this isn’t the reason why half the people from the old conference don’t take part in this one?

 

It is not my intention to offend anyone, or insult or argue with people either in print or face-to-face. In fact I usually keep my mouth firmly shut. If you look at the other forums you will see I am usually conspicuous by my absence. I come in only if someone is looking for help or seeking advice on something I know something about and can contribute something positive in my post.

 

I said earlier that I cannot find smilies in this new conference and I know I am also very straight-to-the-point. These are obviously working against me. I also regard this conference as a debate – certainly not an argument – and a real search for up-to-date, hard facts, rather than sticking to the old unproven theories or another serving up of ‘what we think we know’. Times change, methods change and ingredients change.

 

Now ‘bleeding dumplin’ I can understand as offensive, and I have already apologised for that. In the context of discussing the labelling of harmful substances ‘ advised to seek medical advice’ and within the context of abusing that substance, adding ‘see a psychiatrist’ isn’t offensive – it’s supposed to be funny. Mealybar seems to have taken it as I intended. However your taking that statement out of context IS offensive, and for someone like me with mental illness in the family,–  particularly offensive that you even suggest that I would make fun of it.

I cannot understand how ‘take a sick bird to a fellow fancier’ offends unless it is again taken out of its context of advising someone new to pigeons or faced with something they haven’t seen before or don’t understand. Most have mentors, trusted people who have ‘volunteered’ and are willing to keep them up-to-speed. Or am I missing something?

And yes, I apologise when I get it wrong but I will certainly NOT apologise for that! How many other apologies have you seen in this or the old conference? My original information on Milton was out of date and I apologised for misleading others in the forum. What else could I do? I’d like to answer your Milton query in a separate posting.

I have certainly no reason nor any intention of falling out with anyone.

BEST REGARDS.

 

 

[Guest]

 

‘what I thought I knew’ about Milton

 

As new and young parents in 1970 we were advised by the local health visitor that after sterilising the babies bottles etc., they had to be well rinsed as it (the 1970’s version of Milton) if swallowed, harmed the baby. I’ve never forgotten that – who could?

 

I didn’t have pigeons between 1973 and 2002. I started reading up on them around 2000. Everything had changed. And some of what I was reading didn’t make sense like giving Milton (dangerous for babies - in 1970) to pigeons? So when I saw this advice and others like it posted in this forum, I posted ‘what I thought I knew’ about giving Milton to pigeons.

 

The updated information on Milton is not according to me Jimmy but from the makers of Milton. I posted it from their web site :

 

http://www.milton-tm.com/healthpro/health_professional.htm

 

The Milton you and the late David Palmer knew has probably changed too, Jimmy. When you think it through a product used in baby care and dangerous to babies just wouldn’t be tolerated today. There must be a safeguard built in somewhere. The key to that safeguard, cut-down from my original post, and highlighted in italics:

 

Thrush is a common problem in babies. Will Milton kill thrush?

…Milton will not …….kill off the normal bacteria in the mouth. As soon as Milton touches protein either in the bottle or in the mouth, it is neutralised into a small amount of salt.

 

What happens if a child swallows Milton?

Because of the salt in the solution in the bottle, the child will usually spit the fluid out, or at worst become sick. If they are not sick, there is no need to worry but a concerned parent can give the child a drink of milk. Milk being protein will neutralise the Milton.

 

This is new and important information about Milton. Relate this now to what the late David Palmer described about contamination of the bird’s drinking water: all of these contaminants contain protein, and according the company (not me) this neutralises Milton – it turns it to salt and water.

 

Now for the Irish in me: I said it Milton was harmless - but in a very dangerous way!!!!

 

For far from being your Placebo Jimmy, you (and others) expect Milton to protect your birds’ water – it doesn’t. The slightest bit of saliva, feather, bloom – all the normal stuff in a loft – neutralises it. If you touched the water with your hands – you’ve neutralised Milton. In the treatment of YBS – this forum – advice was given to give the bird Milton to drink in the mistaken belief that it would kill bacteria in the gut. It won’t even get past the saliva in the bird’s mouth - salt & water arrive in the gut instead.

 

Now this is what we now KNOW about Milton. We have moved forward (slightly shaken, but not the least bit stirred) and we have achieved something.

 

I take your point about ‘talking to pigeon fanciers’, Jimmy. Would you have thought 30 years ago you would ever have had to use a vaccination needle or a computer or read a book on pigeon diseases written by a vet, when dealing with pigeons? As I warned the post on Adenovirus was very technical – but all pigeon fanciers are sufficiently knowledgeable and interested in their birds’ welfare to be able to pick out the bits and pieces that matter from amongst the scientific gobbledegook.

 

 

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

glad to here from you bruno  and as you point out sometimes we can become outdated [ i know i am haha] the qoute i printed was obviously an old one but really if i remember right it was sent to me around the year 2000, but i do notice on it,  i tablet per gallon, not in litres ,but it was david palmer[as far as i know] who sent me this.as i am in a bit of a rush at the moment ill have a better look at your interesting points asap meanwhile what i have done just out of curiosity, is put some grain in a heavily stained coffee cup with a spoonfull of milton,and water just to see if it takes the stains out the cup, with the protein in it,  will get back to you later .   proffessor  white ha ha  cheers bruno

[Guest]

VIRKON S - USES AS A DISINFECTANT IN WATER

 

Second attempt on promised Virkon S extract for Mealybar.. Savage cut-down of item extracted from company web site  for obvious reasons:

 

http://www.antecint.co.uk/main/virkons.htm

 

 

Terminal Cleanout: 0.5% solution. Dose header tank and drain system leave for at least 1 hour and flush through with clean water.

 

 

Continuous Water Sanitation: 0.1% solution. Dose header tank as required or apply through dosing system..

 

 

Litres of Water to be sanitised.

100 litres = 500g or 100g of Virkon S  per Terminal Cleanout.

 

 

Yes, Mealybar, on the face of it you are correct that Virkon S can be used to disinfect water. But take a closer look at where this water comes from and what it is used for. IT ISN’T DRINKING WATER because this water comes from a header tank and is used for cleaning out operations within ‘the terminal’. Sanitation of this water makes sense too, because there’s not much sense in hosing away the manure on the floor to get rid of bugs etc when the water you are using is also contaminated.

 

 

[jimmy white]

hi bruno, as i said before ,i put milton and water in a stained cup with grain at the bottom, the cup was spottless after 10 mins      i then put a cup of water with milton in, then put a birds beak infor a second till it bubbled, the result was cup spotless, i then done both these things but added feathers and even droppings, poured this out ,rinsed, cup spotless,now any one can try this them selves [3 differant cups coffee stained] now i really am at a loss as you say it becomes useless when ever it touches protein or birds saliva,surely this prooves the opposite, then you went on to say it becomes useless   [salt and water]when its touched by human hand, well i even out my finger in the cup as well, same result, try this bruno and you will see for yourself  i must be going off my nut    please nobody answer that, but seriously try it

[jimmy white]

does any one remember the water sterilzing tablets that old hand used to sell, the name escapes me at the moment, they were in the same wee alluminium containers as harcanker, coryzium, vit c    etc  i dont even know if you can still get them, i know that coryzium capsules had to go off the market for some reason ,but they worked, but these sterilizing tabs, i would be interested to know what was in them, as they worked as well. can anyone help?

[Guest]

 

Milton Fluid is made of a solution of 2% sodium hypochlorite, 16.5% sodium chloride and water. Sodium Chloride is common household salt.

 

According to the manufacturers, Sodium Hypochlorite breaks down to salt and water on contact with protein – i.e. adds more water and salt to the existing solution. Don’t know what concentration of salt and water is now, Jimmy, but it was already at 16.5% before we started. But you now have a dirty cup full of pretty strong salty water. Salt and water are cleaning agents. Check out salt’s cleaning properties for yourself: -

 

http://www.pagewise.com/household-salt-uses.htm

 

Now a real chemistry professor might have tested for Sodium Hypochlorite. Neither a chemist or a professor (nor likely to be either) I’m sorry I can’t help in how you would test for it. Make sure you don’t blow anything up thro’ there Jimmy!!!!  Great fun this innit – just like being back at school again. (Crashes of thunder and flashes of lightnin' as a backdrop)

 

[jimmy white]

hi bruno  glad to hear from you . now im going to try the same experiment with salt and water ,only problam is ive no dirty cups now, which is unusual for me , hope you realize this is costing me a fortune on milton, the woman in sainsburys must think i have triplets at 60  haha ,think ill just let her beleive it, give my mind a treat, jimmy

[Guest]

Jimmy, not trying to read your mind or anything, your query suggests to me that you are looking for another steriliser for the drinking water. Before you do, can I take you back to your David Palmer quote? I feel you may have missed something of a very common sense nature there and one that few could fault.

David Palmer talks about clean water changed regularly. Now that basically is what I do and I think everybody else did in the past. I change it at least twice a day and if the youngsters decide to have a bath in it (no doubt to give me the hint) or it gets dirty - I change it again. Feel a bit like a waiter at times, but worth it for peace of mind. I personally don't like anything in the drinking water at all.

[mealybar]

Sorry I've been away the last few days, I think the topic has moved on a wee bit now, but thanks for all the info you've dug up.

 

One thing I can help you with is; the smilies; if you click 'More Post Options' or the 'Reply' button on the end of a topic, it will bring you to a page with the smilies, and other stuff too

[Guest]

;D > :'( :X ??) : :K) :K) 8) :B :-/

Yep - GOT THAT FINE. Thanks Mealybar. Seems the quick way in is the bare way in too. And there's all that format / table stuff that caused me so much grief. Thanks again.

[jimmy white]

my query on the old hand water sterilizing tablets have been answered by fellow fanciers, they were hypochlorite and they worked, so at the moment im happy with the milton , but doing a few more tests, and  hopefully get more information from a practising vet , should  clear up things hopefully, remember im only talking about for crop infections, and not for continual usage as i advised on an earlier post,  keeping the water clean , changing it twice a day is not a new thing ive been doing it for 50 years, but there are other places birds will drink from, when their out.sir colin who was 2 nat nantes, used to go to the tap sink in the yard where i used to keep them, at one time, this sink was filthy with  the grey hound lads washing their dogs dishes etc etc there will be many that can verify that. the water was spotless in the loft, but he would persist on drinking this water,but i allways used to put milton in it, it never did him any harm he won 5000 pounds for me, so im sure you can see how i have my reservations on this subject  jimmy

[Guest]

Glad you brought that one up Jimmy. Used to take my daughter, son's partner and grandson down to the local park to feed the local wildlife on the pond. Prided myself in the fact that we were the only family group who could feed the geese, ducks and the resident pair of swans by hand... don't recommend the swan bit to others though - need to be very wary and very, very careful, especially with children and dogs around. Coots and Moorhens were different though - wouldn't come that close to take a nibble.

Doing this for years before the penny dropped and the REAL point of my post.

While the geese and the other water birds fed mainly on the weed on the pond's bottom, the geese also ate the grass on the banks - the same grass that they and all the other birds and dogs had crapped on and humans had walked all over.

On the pond, they all obviously had a crap in the water too, and swam in it, dived to the bottom of it, bathed in it ......and drank it.

In all the years I went over there - nae sick birds.

One of my earlier posts spoke of 60 millions years of evolution on the birds' immune system and a caution to interfere with it at your peril.

In the main, I like to depend on the bird's own immune system doing the job it was designed too - without me interfering.

But these are dangerous times and we must take extra precautions. Disease can spread through water through saliva and dropping contamination.

If we accept that our birds are healthy then we should work to keep them that way.

In the current climate it would be foolish to allow our birds to drink regularly from water that wild birds also have access to.

And it would therefore also seem foolish to allow wild birds access to our birds' drinking water.

For the time being at least.

 

[jimmy white]

just a thought on yb sickness, we seem to have had a taste of it from all over  the uk       which never happened years ago     what causes it?   whats so differant now, as it was years ago,, we all say  we have more ybs nowadays but really there were still many big lofts and big team ybs,then as well, there were also as many dirty lofts as there were clean lofts ,i would go as far to say cleaner now, the birdages then, were far more than now, 5 to 6000 birds to rennes, 700 in my own old club, of course there were more members then, but when you think of it there were just as many pigeons then as there is now ,so why is this just happened in the last few years.when this first reared its ugly head, i remember getting a phone call from cornwall from a fancier who had this [who had a small loft and about 20 birds] then at the same time, it appeared up here, this would approx be about ten years ago. there was no way these birds came in contact with each other so that would kind of suggest that it was airborne so if it was airborne, why again did we not have that years ago, its the same air and the same wind. and the same water albeit  differant water in differant parts of the country , just as it was then, so really [and this is a complete shot in the dark]the only thing we all had in common was the food, be it differant food brand names .the maples, maize and certain grains etc  were mostly imported,from the same places. now i often wonder if these grains are grown the same as years ago, are they forced or are they fertilized or whatever, the main thing i was getting at , are they grown the same way as they were years ago, i just wondered, and if they werent grown the same way as they used to be. could this just possibly be the root [pardon the pun]  of the problem.,as the yb sickness seems to  be a digestive disorder which is generally to do with food  , which again can cause secondry infections     just a thought jimmy

[Guest]

Can't really answer your question on the way that the grains we feed our birds are farmed, Jimmy, but I've discovered a bit on feeding Organic Farmed poultry which will be of special interest to you and everyone who keeps pigeons.

Had a look at the Organic Growers' Control Manual, a DEFRA publication. Section 8.4 is about feeding poultry reared for Organic produce. All their feedstuffs: grains, minerals and vitamins are organically grown. No fertilisers, No genetically modified grain, no 'made in a laboratory' minerals or vitamins.

Wonder if the big boys would bag mixtures of these organic grains for us. I for one would be interested in it.

[Guest Davy Fleming]

Some fanciers will probably swear by there own products and I will not say they are wrong, But I cartainly know one which is a proven remedy and swear by it so you can make up your own mind. MYCOSTATIN! you can get it from the vet at approx £4.50 per 60ml bottle , mix it at the rate of 1ml to 1pint of water and get a syringe with a tube of approx 75-100ml long on the end put approx 30ml of this mixture in the syringe and down the birds neck next day they will be clear and that is a promise also feed them on depurative for 3-4 days 3 or 4 times a day and just a little at a time

after a week they will be able to race again with no after effects. I GUARANTEE THIS WILL WORK TO YOUR SATISFACTION  Good Luck

[Guest]

Had a look around for information on your Mycostatin, Davy. Couldn't come up with animal applications, but the human application gives a clear enough picture of what it is. It is an antifungal - e.g. marketed as Nystatin for Thrush (Candidas - a yeast).

 

As is my usual, I also had a look at known side effects - it can cause digestive upset (which in the circumstances is the LAST thing we want to do) - and for any recommended alternative treatments. Apart from diet changes, these included:

 

(1)Try some beneficial bacteria

(2)Take a supplement that contains 10 billion colony-forming units a day of acidophilus or bifidobacteria to control yeast in the intestine

(3)To reduce yeast in the intestine, try garlic (5,000 mcg a day of allicin potential in an enteric-coated supplement), or oregano oil (0.2 to 0.4 ml a day of a coated supplement)

 

I do not believe a one day's course of anything will cure anything, Davy, and the application by a tube down the bird's throat is, I think you will agree, wholly impractical - it's at least a four hands' job. Your results most likely come about, in my opinion, by a change to a light, easily digested diet. The bird's own immune system did the rest.

 

And my last point would be that you (and others) still confuse the symptoms as the cause of this illness. What you attempt to do cures only the symptoms - not the cause.

 

Identify what causes YBS. And solve it.

 

Prevention is always better than cure in my book.

 

 

 

[stucky 1]

There is no cure for y/b sickness ie adino virus. you can treat secondary infections, that you get wen you get the virus things like e coli canker cocci etc etc but you can t treat the virus itself, you can help by giving nat yougurt feed light like depurative. Best thing to do wen you think you got it is send droppings of to reputable vet. i use l rigby. they will give you full test then you treat for what secondary infection you have.