loss of leg use when laying ?????

[Guest Owen]

Here comes a long winded reply to cheer up puresoontjen. And to try to put my twopence worth in yet again. pigeonscout I am sorry to be awkward but you have that the wrong way around. Minerals are required to synthesize the vitamins. As an example. I kept sheep on the mountains here in Wales and we had trouble with their lack of thrift. They did not have enough vitamin B12 in their diet. The Ministry of Agriculture advised us that the area was deficient in Cobalt amongst other things and that the animals had to have that before they could utilise the Vitamin. I was involvled in an experiment in which we put Cobalt Bullets into the gut. It was of some help but eventually the bullets scaled up and failed to supply the cobalt. Then somebody came up with the idea that we should try a powdered mineral suppliment. It was called Cobit.

The sheep were better straight away. But what I found really interesting was the fact tha the wild birds, chickens and even the dogs would take it.  

[pigeonscout]

Here comes a long winded reply to cheer up puresoontjen. And to try to put my twopence worth in yet again. pigeonscout I am sorry to be awkward but you have that the wrong way around. Minerals are required to synthesize the vitamins. As an example. I kept sheep on the mountains here in Wales and we had trouble with their lack of thrift. They did not have enough vitamin B12 in their diet. The Ministry of Agriculture advised us that the area was deficient in Cobalt amongst other things and that the animals had to have that before they could utilise the Vitamin. I was involvled in an experiment in which we put Cobalt Bullets into the gut. It was of some help but eventually the bullets scaled up and failed to supply the cobalt. Then somebody came up with the idea that we should try a powdered mineral suppliment. It was called Cobit.

The sheep were better straight away. But what I found really interesting was the fact tha the wild birds, chickens and even the dogs would take it.  

 

We are talking about calcium and if you read what is said in the link below you will see I have it the right way round. As I have said if they are lacking in vitamin D they will not process the calcium no matter how much you give them.  http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww22eii.htm

[Guest stb-]

 

We are talking about calcium and if you read what is said in the link below you will see I have it the right way round. As I have said if they are lacking in vitamin D they will not process the calcium no matter how much you give them.  http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww22eii.htm

 

YES VIT D REQUIED TO PROCCES CALCIUM PIGEON SCOUT

 

A LOT OF CALCIUM PRODUCTS NOW HAVE VIT D ADDED

[pigeonscout]

 

YES VIT D REQUIED TO PROCCES CALCIUM PIGEON SCOUT

 

A LOT OF CALCIUM PRODUCTS NOW HAVE VIT D ADDED

 

If a man is feeding calcium to his birds and they are still showing signs of a calcium deficiency would I be wrong in suggesting it could be a vitamin deficiency?  

[clayton moore]

Some pigeons never learn to take grit or the cock drives so hard the hen isnt allowed there is enough vit D in the pigeons food to not req same.

[Guest IB]

Longish article. I've posted it because it gives clear evidence that diagnosing a 'calcium deficiency' isn't straight forward. Calcium, phosphorus and Vitamin D all have an affect on each other, they also need to be in balance. Article also shows excellent, good and fair food sources for these, and as these sources provide from x20 to x2 the bird's required daily intake,  and some of these are available to birds on a daily basis, a deficiency in any one of them appears to me to be highly improbable.

 

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww22eii.htm

[Guest Owen]

pigeonscout

The people who read this have a choice as to whether to believe what you say or not. I still say, that animals and birds require the minerals in their diet to process the vitamins. I know that what I have said is very simplistic but as working practice it is a good principle to work with.  You can say what you like, and quote what you like, but I know from personal experience with the Minestry Vets that they wanted the sheep and cattle on the hill to have access to a variety of minerals. ( I was not involved with the cattle) but the principle is just the same. And I can tell you from first hand experience that even without adding vitamins to the diet, the sheep that had access to the Minerals Suppliments were dramatically more healthy. I think it is time you and your little friend stopped arguing for the sake of it and tried to debate these issues. Your nasty attitudes are beginning to bore me so after this you can carry on.

[clayton moore]

We are talking of racing and or show pigeons loss of muscle function following laying so we are talking miniscule amounts.It is so little that to put a finer point you practically show the hen the calcium and shes well. NOT LITERALLY OF COURSE.She needs a little.

[Guest Owen]

Of course you are right. The only thing I would add is that I like to offer a mixture of minerals and clay blocks every day, fresh. My birds eat a lot of this mixture every day without fail. And the nearer they get to laying and hatching the more they go for it. I have noticed the the Belgiums like to offer grit fresh every day. A lot of them put it into the feed troughs.

Some years ago I lost some birds with egg binding. These days there is no sign of egg binding, soreness or stiffness after they lay. And the egg quality is definately better. It is just something I built into the routine that seems to work well.

[Guest stb-]

Of course you are right. The only thing I would add is that I like to offer a mixture of minerals and clay blocks every day, fresh. My birds eat a lot of this mixture every day without fail. And the nearer they get to laying and hatching the more they go for it. I have noticed the the Belgiums like to offer grit fresh every day. A lot of them put it into the feed troughs.

Some years ago I lost some birds with egg binding. These days there is no sign of egg binding, soreness or stiffness after they lay. And the egg quality is definately better. It is just something I built into the routine that seems to work well.

 

Owen just to clarify somthing i think people are getting minerals and vitamins mixed up as they are different things   but some are    calling them all vitamins  en block

[holmsidelofts]

Of course you are right. The only thing I would add is that I like to offer a mixture of minerals and clay blocks every day, fresh. My birds eat a lot of this mixture every day without fail. And the nearer they get to laying and hatching the more they go for it. I have noticed the the Belgiums like to offer grit fresh every day. A lot of them put it into the feed troughs.

Some years ago I lost some birds with egg binding. These days there is no sign of egg binding, soreness or stiffness after they lay. And the egg quality is definately better. It is just something I built into the routine that seems to work well.

 

Same here for me, since i started feeding grit and minerals plus they get osteaocare calcium supplement i have had no issues with hens going off the legs or egg binding and as owen said the quality of the eggs produced by the hens are fantastically smooth and i rarely have issues.

 

People really do underestimate the importance of grit, minerals and calcium supplements, i was one of these 5 years ago but they are now a daily part of my birds life and i wouldnt be without them.

 

[clayton moore]

Minerals are vital once the young are born.If the parents are not given minerals the babies will squirt watery droppings out of the pan.Then they will fail.

[pigeonscout]

Longish article. I've posted it because it gives clear evidence that diagnosing a 'calcium deficiency' isn't straight forward. Calcium, phosphorus and Vitamin D all have an affect on each other, they also need to be in balance. Article also shows excellent, good and fair food sources for these, and as these sources provide from x20 to x2 the bird's required daily intake,  and some of these are available to birds on a daily basis, a deficiency in any one of them appears to me to be highly improbable.

 

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww22eii.htm

 

IB would I be right in saying that vitamin D3 is needed for the uptake of calcium and that Pigeons make their own vitamin D3 when exposed to sunlight? (I.e. vitamin D3 does not come directly from their food.)

[Guest IB]

 

IB would I be right in saying that vitamin D3 is needed for the uptake of calcium and that Pigeons make their own vitamin D3 when exposed to sunlight? (I.e. vitamin D3 does not come directly from their food.)

 

I've joked about that on the forum before, the birds spread-eagled on the deck, soaking up the sunshine - and making Vitamin D.  

 

Oil from the preen gland contains Vitamin D3 precursors. The birds preening speads this over their feathers. Exposure to UV sunlight converts these D3 precursors into Vitamin D, and it is gathered up again as the bird preens, and swallowed.

 

So agree pigeons do make their own Vit D3, and it is involved in uptake of calcium. Vits A & D & calcium & phosphorus are a virtuous circle. They need to be present in the right amounts, or the circle breaks.

 

 

[soapy]

i had the staggers last night , wers them bloody magnesium tablets

[Guest beautyhomer]

i had the staggers last night , wers them bloody magnesium tablets

 

You might be better with a bottle in a vein ;D ;D ;D

[kingbilly2]

 

You might be better with a bottle in a vein ;D ;D ;D

 

this has hapend to weekeek after a viset to the toilet he was left siting thare for 3 days hope he makes a full recovery and the plumber can clear the u bend he will realy need to eat more rufeg ;D ;D ;D ;D

[BLACK W F]

 

this has hapend to weekeek after a viset to the toilet he was left siting thare for 3 days hope he makes a full recovery and the plumber can clear the u bend he will realy need to eat more rufeg ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D