Cannot agree with you on thet one Alf the winner of the Kinglea One Loft Race 2008 (which is only a fun race) went astray the first race came back via SPDS then went on to win the first prize £1000 and £1000 to charity (Daldorch house for Delboy)186 mls then went to the Scottish National Leicester young bird race being time to win 9th Region G 136 Open winning £123.50 flying 317.891mls no bad for a bird that was given a second chance Proves your idea wrong :rolleyes: :rolleyes: