pigeons that fly 50mls to 150mls rollen jansens in a sw wind or ronny dds the thing you have to ask yourself is what doo i whant frome my race team to sit at the loft for up to3 or 4 hours or to be thare all day and up early the next day at some of the distance races then look for the pigeons that fit that criytearer you will always hear the experts say you can time it to be at the loft 1 hour before the birds are home and then hear the tails of the one that they missed ;D ;D ;D ;D