im going to be honest on here to all that are on line i trained and helped look after someones birds if i beat him it was always a fluke i had a bird from saints 4 club 12 fed i was chuffed he told everyone it was a fluke only 12 on day one day he reared up and said i let his birds go in power lines three members of my club were ther letting go i tought him a lesson by letting go one of his birds go long before the rest he boasted to every one how good this bird was he put 100 on it in pool money it never came home when birds are all tossed together trained birds come home if ill or not untrained bird??????