David_vet

Thanks Jason, Been an interesting couple of years> Trying to get an internet library together of useful info. chargeable , of course, then I can retire to keeping up to date with these forums David

A very good set of replies and suggestions. I would be interested to know whether it is all his birds or just stock, old racers or this years youngsters? How many birds? How much are they being given to eat daily? What are they being given? How much water are they drinking? When were they last treated for worms and with what? Any other signs and how far through the moult? What management system is he using? Droppings tests are always useful. If the droppings look normal then I would just check for coccidia and worms. It really does not fit with E.coli or salmonella. Might have to ask specifically to have droppings examined for tapeworms. Otherwise, I would have suggested just trying altering the feed as suggested by others previously. david

A young fancier, years ago, whils explaining eyesign to a vet said he used to examine the vent. If he could see sundhine .... , whatever works for you go with it. If you do not know your birds then I do not know who will. David PS I like the feet theory ! will use that in a lecture to students - thanks

As already suggested most likely to be something they eat. As for normal, I usually look for dark brown to black faecal portion with a white cap (urates from the kidneys). Faniers tell me that a down feather on top indicates the bird is in good condition. David

Thank you for this. DEFRA can only pass comment from information they obtain through their surveillance work. My impression was that when I first started talking with Fort Dodge about 20 years ago there was not a market for the vaccine. I do not recall seeing any cases either. The situation has changed, in my view, in that there is more of it about. I thought it easier to ask those at the coal face. I would agree that perceptions can be dangerous and over the years I have been amazed at how many clients are only happy if their stock have the latest fashionable disease. Already you are providing me with more food for thought than I had anticipated. I am very grateful, David

Assuming a loft is free of paratyphoid then the birds in it will be susceptible to infection. Vaccinating helps prevent the entrance of infection into the loft. So yes you should vaccinate each year until paratyphoid is eradicated from the national pigeon flock. Probably not going to happen in my lifetime! david

So who is your resident vet - I probably know them Regards, David

Interesting, having used both Columbovac paratyphus and Chevivac S. I would have said the opposite in my experience. Carriers are a real problem and antibiotics will not sort that. regrettably this organism can live in the dust in a loft for months to years. reinfection is therefore likely. Vaccination works over time because vaccinated birds will be more difficult to infect, reproduce smaller amounts of bacteria and so result in less contamination of the loft. Over time, there are too few bacteria left to set up an infection so that to all intents and purposes, no problem. Well that's the theory anyway. thanks for your comments. David

Quite correct, the PMV vaccine was also unavailable during the same period. The use of the vaccines is to enable the development of immune memory. If your birds met PMV or Paratyphoid at some time during that year, then theoretically they will mount a quicker immune response and therefore suffer less. Neither vaccine is designed to prevent infection, only the development of clinical disease. There is usually in a reduction of spread of the infection as well. Correct about the specificity of the paratyphoid vaccine. Pigeons only suffer disease when infected with the pigeon strain of Salmonella typhimurium. Pigeons like chickens can be infected with the majority of the remaining 2,300 + strains without blinking an eye. It is us that suffers from the diarrhoea and associated problems. So the vaccines protect against the strain that causes the problem. Lastly, the live vaccines do not usually cause disease. pointless having them if they did. Thank you for highlighting all these points. David

An interesting observation, if you take one potential problem out of frame. The birds can often cope with other little challenges. David

Thanks for highlighting this thread. It will be very useful.

This year Colombovac Paratyphoid vaccine, fully licenced in the UK, became available again. For the previous two years, when the vaccine was unavailable, I was obtaining by special import licence Chevivac S. I would appreciate your thoughts before I speak to our Veterinary Medicines Directorate on the following:- 1. Is paratyphoid a problem? 2. In your opinion does vaccination help control it? 3. If you had a choice would you prefer a live vaccine or a dead vaccine? 4. Any specific reason for your answer to question 3. Any thoughts or views will be appreciated. Thanks, David