Thanks Lennut Tar :) weird thing is the main rambo champion ginga moggie, thats been giving me the most greif and bringing his pals down, i found opposite my house deseased.It was,nt me im not a cat killa promise, i reckon cause it kept comming and leaving limping, due to plastic anti cat spikes, it lost its focus for a moment. Well my cat prob is 90% gone, i have informed the owner and he took his kitty, for buriel i guess. PLZ members dont get wrong idea, just showing a real situation regarding my birds. Thanks Zuffy