SHU COUNCIL MEETING 7th MAY 07

[Guest]

does that mean that a 40/50 member club could if they done a paper work exersise could have 100 or so feds and the same delagates scott?????

[Guest TAMMY_1]

does that mean that a 40/50 member club could if they done a paper work exersise could have 100 or so feds and the same delagates scott?????

 

MA NAMES NO SCOTT , BUT APPERENTLY THATS WHAT IT MEANS ;D

[GUTTY HEN]

The facts are that in the meeting at least three or four should have been put out of the meeting and that was just for the way in which they conducted themselfs.The reason i think they were not removed right or wrong was it then would have looked as if the chairman at that point Ian Noble was trying to get people out so a vote may be swung one way or the other.The hole thing is very sad and all the council has to ask themselfs where are we going?I want to say that i Scott Gibson want evryone in Scotland to be a member of the shu and all try and work together for the members.I feel that when our union book was put together by our past members page one rule two was not in to say that you realy only need five members five lofts and you can be a federation.This should be for a club if council members have the union at heart they will sort this mess out sooner rather than later.The shu should not be like a circus with people on the council acting like clowns.I have already stated that in the interest of the union we need stability in the union with the council ALL working to take the sport in Scotland forward.In the short term the answer is simple our president to step down and let Ian Noble handle the union until the agm where we can change the rules that are in question also Lanarkshires number one delegate to take a back seat.This i feel would help the council work together until the agm.The things that were after the meeting i cant say as i was then in another meeting but i am deeply sadened at what i am reading about.I am not takeing sides on this but just sums up the current state we are in.This cant go on i would therefore appeal to everyone on the council to look at themselfs and never mind the names involved just one question is this right.NO then the council run the union sort it out.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Have to agree on the point that everybody in Scotland who flies and races pigeons should be racing as one and not some here and there, it would be great if this were to happen but I doubt very much that it will happen ,not for a long time anyway untill a load of adverseries , are gone from all over and a new generation of folk have come up and bring everybody together,I am not talking about getting rid of those who run things just now, I am talking about a good few years down the line when a new generation are in charge of all feds and can work together for the good of the sport, will we see this ? only time wil tell and I hope I am here to see it and hope there is still racing in times to come

[THE FIFER]

Mibe you want to stick to being a Moderator Bruno as your attemps at comedy leave a lot to be desired. For the Fifer the people that Vincie wanted to leave were councelors who the bold Vincie had decided were not entitled to be there.

 

 

i did not know they were councillors i thought they were guests, and as so are there until the council sorts it out, which could be difficult under the sircumstances, its regarding them etc, so one thing could be to put the case to the members via clubs voting and then their delegates put the votes to their feds and feds send the results to shu. (this is regarding whether its yes or no for to accept 5 members forming 4 clubs forming a fed, it would be a simple yes or no vote for members at club level. better than calling agms etc which just turn into agro and get nowhere.

 

 

[GUTTY HEN]

Fifer

Who are you talking about guests.I am talking about the council members who could not control themselfs at the council meeting and that is the people that the feds are sending to the shu to represent you the member.The other point is simple lets start with you dont sit on the fence is it ok to have 5 members 5 lofts make up a fed yes or no?I have spoken to a lot of shu members since the meeting on Monday and everyone says the same NO.This is clear people are abusing the interpetation of the rules to please themselfs.This is why we are in the mess we are.We need to have MORAL ISSUES and see what is right and what is wrong.Then we have others who think they are council members for life when the fed they are in voted them out of office at the last agm of their fed.They come along as life members?Fifer can you explain how this can happen?is it not that someone can be a life member to the shu but council members are members who are voted on at the feds agm yes/no? The fed members put up the council members for the year and they in turn are to act on your members behalf at the council and run the union for the year.If you dont like what they do at the union then you change this at your fed agm again yes/no?This is why i beleive that the current council members need to stand up and take a vote and sort this out.

[Guest]

scott is it not in the rules that a fed is entiltled to one delegate per 100 members so it realy doesnt matter how many is in the fed you have  only one vote per 100 fed members

100 =1 delagate 200 2 del . 180 doesnt give you 2 and so on?

[Guest]

scott is it not in the rules that a fed is entiltled to one delegate per 100 members so it realy doesnt matter how many is in the fed you have  only one vote per 100 fed members

100 =1 delagate 200 2 del . 180 doesnt give you 2 and so on?

 

Rule 18 is 1 delegate every 200 members or part thereof. 180 = 1 delegate.

 

 

[Guest]

 

 

i did not know they were councillors i thought they were guests, and as so are there until the council sorts it out, which could be difficult under the sircumstances, its regarding them etc, so one thing could be to put the case to the members via clubs voting and then their delegates put the votes to their feds and feds send the results to shu. (this is regarding whether its yes or no for to accept 5 members forming 4 clubs forming a fed, it would be a simple yes or no vote for members at club level. better than calling agms etc which just turn into agro and get nowhere.

 

 

Two things on your post, Fifer.

 

(1) I think the method you propose is far better than the present fed delegate set-up. To me it is inconceivable that every organisation affiliated to SHU doesn't have representation at Council.

 

Agree we should vote on issues at club level. Strictly 1 member = 1 vote, including members who are in partnership, e.g. Jay & Son = 2 members = 2 votes. So if you are a member of more than one club, still have only 1 vote - in what you nominate as your main club.

 

Yes & No votes from every club go forward to Fed (if there is one). Need then only have one SHU delegate per fed, or specialist club, who will collate the yes & no votes for every member in every club in that fed / specialist club and speak on their behalf at Council.

 

 

(2) On the interpretation of the club / fed membership part of the constitution, I think your previous post was spot on - it is within Council authority (Rule 39) to decide what rule 2 means / doesn't mean, and could have been settled by them at Monday night's meeting.

[GUTTY HEN]

Well then Bruno what would you have done if you had a vote on Monday.Would you vote yes John everything is ok with your interpretation of the rule you can have 5 members and 5 lofts to make up a fed and be in four clubs.No you are working the rule book against what it is there for and you need 20 individual lofts to make a fed.Just a yes or no answer will be ok.

[Guest]

Thanks bruno i thaught it was 100 so how can a fed with under 20 members rule a fed with over 400 like lanarkshire thats strange that seems like the tail wagging the dog!

[doos r us]

scott can you tell me if the status of other feds were discussed or was it all about john barlow and w.o.s you may get the change you want at the agm but what happens if we meet the 20 individul loft requirment another investigation  dont here much support coming back for 22 members who with much personal sacrafice stuck by the shu when others left in droves time to get your prioritys right

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Thanks bruno i thaught it was 100 so how can a fed with under 20 members rule a fed with over 400 like lanarkshire thats strange that seems like the tail wagging the dog!

 

we have over 500

[THE FIFER]

 

 

Whats to interpret Fifer 5 guys have set out to circumvent the rules of our union and as Gutty Hen says 5 members now have their own fed!

 

For goodness sake be honest about the thing you and I both know if the President of the union was not involved he himself would probably have stepped in and ruled these actions contrary to the rules.

 

I'll say it again the Shu is a total laughing stock it is absolutely pathetic.

 

Why any other union would want to have anything to do with us is beyond "me".

 

 

 

so why do u stay with it if its so bad , u must be very hard up to stay in an organisation u believe to be a laughing stock, or tell ure delegate what u think so he can let the shu council know, that's what any manly fancier would do, then they would deal with it,?????????

 

[Guest]

doosrus i think you might be missing the point no one wants to stop the wos from racing your birds or even bieng involved in the running of your union not as far as i can see its about people bending the rules to suit there situation you,s just got caught up in it all and why is everyone so desperate to be part of a fed why not just enjoy your racing as a club there is allways someone who will carry you to races but you dont need to be part of that orginisation yes its nice to be part of a big fed but is it worth all the hastle?

 

and be carefull fifer i might take your statement to me as a complaint ( manly thing) sorry tammy i didnt want to over state my guess at your membership and be struck off for it not telling the truth

[doos r us]

well we can always go back to shu power over feds ask wings would like to see the reaction if a fed was forced to take us in you cant win they cant have it booth ways your right frank nice to part of big fed and if we lose status thats next on the list

[Guest]

Thats it doo,rus you allready have your status as dunbarton club nothing  wrong with that hitch a lift to your race points and all are happy well nearly all!

[doos r us]

what like me sending doos to midland every week no clock a training toss for the national sorry frank the members want the big picture every week not just 5 races its no fun getting a good one and not being on the result if thats the case why pay fees would be better off just being an inddvidual member and just compeating at the nationals

[me]

what like me sending doos to midland every week no clock a training toss for the national sorry frank the members want the big picture every week not just 5 races its no fun getting a good one and not being on the result if thats the case why pay fees would be better off just being an inddvidual member and just compeating at the nationals

 

you've timed a lot of doos in the national then Doosrus I did'nt know that!!!!!!!

 

 

[me]

what like me sending doos to midland every week no clock a training toss for the national sorry frank the members want the big picture every week not just 5 races its no fun getting a good one and not being on the result if thats the case why pay fees would be better off just being an inddvidual member and just compeating at the nationals

 

Never mind that Doosrus why pay four lots of fees and doo your usual and have a tail end fed ticket or four!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

 

 

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

Time you looked at facts and not Fiction. There are more than 5 members in that Fed. Also as the Rules stand you can have a Fed with 5 members as there is no rule to limit you to one club. I have 4 clubs in my Fed and 43 members which is more than enough but Vincie wanted my Counciller thrown out. Why because he was gonna vote against Vincie.

 

looking at your post again bobby, was not aware there was a vote being taken for or against vince about anything

[Henrik]

Well rephrase that Tam he was gonna vote agaist the proposal that Vincie was putting foeward

[GUTTY HEN]

I would like to peply to Doos r us and Fifer.The first point is very clear we want everyone in the shu.We want members in Scotland man,women,children to fly under the union banner.The members in the west everyone wants them in the union the point is as it stands you are Not a federation.We all need to work together to sort this out.The next point is yes other feds were spoke about East of Scotland which i have said we support them 100% no problem with them even if they vote another way from me that is up to them.Midland fed was also on agenda they have 200 on the accounts which have been audited and passed at the shu agm but the have 203 on the fed books .This was a mistake and three were in as individual members.If you take the line that the audited books are 200 then they only have 1 vote not 2 that 203 members would give them.All of this would never been a problem but for the actions of wos letting in John Barlow.This has highlighted lots of feds which have a problem with the union book but we have people who want to bend it to fit.

Fifer we all can see that you are a friend of John Barlow which is good but please dont try and say what is going on is ok.Why dont i go away if i dont like it your words well here we go.I as a MAN will stay because im in the right i am not a weak person who walks away and lets the people who after all are in the wrong win.I want everyone in Scotland to fly pigeons together united man,women,child under the union banner with a book that we all stick by not be in a position and bend the rules for myself.We must all stick by the rules friend or not same for all.I hope you will agree with this.You also made a point regarding my delegate well my delegate will as you say help sort things out.He will put his name on another letter to the shu along with another 5/6 council members to call another council meeting to sort this mess out.I just hope people stand up for what is right and wrong and not just because he is your mate i will back him even when wrong.This is why in your own back garden Fife has two federations.People just backing people for all the wrong reasons.Help the union be in it to change it that also is for the members who all walked away and left others to try and sort this out result clubs think they are feds national flying clubs think they are for all the members.The thing is a mess and if people dont start doing what is right then in another ten years we wont need this sight as we want have a future.

[Guest]

Well then Bruno what would you have done if you had a vote on Monday.Would you vote yes John everything is ok with your interpretation of the rule you can have 5 members and 5 lofts to make up a fed and be in four clubs.No you are working the rule book against what it is there for and you need 20 individual lofts to make a fed.Just a yes or no answer will be ok.

 

My Vote would be No.

[THE FIFER]

I would like to peply to Doos r us and Fifer.The first point is very clear we want everyone in the shu.We want members in Scotland man,women,children to fly under the union banner.The members in the west everyone wants them in the union the point is as it stands you are Not a federation.We all need to work together to sort this out.The next point is yes other feds were spoke about East of Scotland which i have said we support them 100% no problem with them even if they vote another way from me that is up to them.Midland fed was also on agenda they have 200 on the accounts which have been audited and passed at the shu agm but the have 203 on the fed books .This was a mistake and three were in as individual members.If you take the line that the audited books are 200 then they only have 1 vote not 2 that 203 members would give them.All of this would never been a problem but for the actions of wos letting in John Barlow.This has highlighted lots of feds which have a problem with the union book but we have people who want to bend it to fit.

Fifer we all can see that you are a friend of John Barlow which is good but please dont try and say what is going on is ok.Why dont i go away if i dont like it your words well here we go.I as a MAN will stay because im in the right i am not a weak person who walks away and lets the people who after all are in the wrong win.I want everyone in Scotland to fly pigeons together united man,women,child under the union banner with a book that we all stick by not be in a position and bend the rules for myself.We must all stick by the rules friend or not same for all.I hope you will agree with this.You also made a point regarding my delegate well my delegate will as you say help sort things out.He will put his name on another letter to the shu along with another 5/6 council members to call another council meeting to sort this mess out.I just hope people stand up for what is right and wrong and not just because he is your mate i will back him even when wrong.This is why in your own back garden Fife has two federations.People just backing people for all the wrong reasons.Help the union be in it to change it that also is for the members who all walked away and left others to try and sort this out result clubs think they are feds national flying clubs think they are for all the members.The thing is a mess and if people dont start doing what is right then in another ten years we wont need this sight as we want have a future.

 

I know John Barlow through me having been a SHU councillor for a few years, and was there when he was elected junior vice president, and always had good respect for him, that does'nt mean i will go with his doings if i thought they were wrong, i like going by the rules, the one in question at the moment regarding 5 members forming 4 clubs etc, is there in the rules, BUT, it needs to be brought into respect, as like other rules can be used for something they were not intended for, and if this happens then SHU rule 39 page 8 should come into force, which involves the council bringing into question the interpretation of the rules governing clubs and feds regarding members, but as the present situation involves councillors and officials, this would not be right, so as i suggested before put out a ballot to clubs to vote a simple yes or no as to the matter, those votes would then go to the feds via the club delegates who would then according to the results instruct the SHU delegates how to vote yes or no, so then it will be the members making the desission, which we should all accept, on the matter as it stands, how would i vote, i would vote NO, as i do not think 5 members should make 4 clubs, but that's my opinion, and the rules allowing this must be sorted out, one way or the other. and let us get on with flying pigeons,