Somthink A Friend Has Put Together

[preston powerblast]

Interesting stuff mate.

So I think what I have being saying for quite a while is beginning to make sense. Because the peregrines, Goshawks and Buzzards are now becoming more widespread and due to the territorial nature of these birds, is causing the smaller species, such as the Sparrowhawks to take refuge in the suburbs and city areas.

These are without doubt are becoming the biggest culprits for pigeons being attacked on and around the lofts.

[Guest darren cantrill]

Interesting stuff mate.

So I think what I have being saying for quite a while is beginning to make sense. Because the peregrines, Goshawks and Buzzards are now becoming more widespread and due to the territorial nature of these birds, is causing the smaller species, such as the Sparrowhawks to take refuge in the suburbs and city areas.

These are without doubt are becoming the biggest culprits for pigeons being attacked on and around the lofts.

 

correct my friend so there is relentless predation on the racing pigeon what the map doesnt tell you is there tally for peregrines was 590 pairs then they locked me out of that information so scotland has 590 recognised breeding pairs posted 2007 survey was before this date but the significant part of the map is the line of flight for the pigeons from the south coast as the numbers move north the federations that liberate the numbers of pigeons reduces so the fact that most pigeons now race south road is significant and the hotspots around liberation points up north is there for all to see so scotland has a greater chance of predation when racing and the proof is there for all to see so even though scotland looks like its had a drop in predation what has actually happened is the peregrines have moved to the hot spots the racing line is the battle ground

[preston powerblast]

That is a very frightening picture, at least if they were to vary the lib sites from time to time, then there would be half a chance they would at least get a good liberation.

Then the tail enders will get picked off all the way up the flight corridor.

I've seen birds that I have liberated on training tosses and see what some do when a hawk strikes, they drop into the undergrowth for safety.

[Guest Tooshy Boy]

THATS TRUE I HAVE HAD IT HAPPEN TO ME .///

[preston powerblast]

I cannot believe what has been achieved over three days.

There is a distinct picture forming here and lots of extremely important facts being uncovered.

There is a very distinctive pattern of behaviour and habitats coming to light.

The scary thing, it's cost nothing.

[Guest darren cantrill]

I cannot believe what has been achieved over three days.

There is a distinct picture forming here and lots of extremely important facts being uncovered.

There is a very distinctive pattern of behaviour and habitats coming to light.

The scary thing, it's cost nothing.

 

its easier for me cause i have been out of the sport for five years im hoping to start back up with some youngsters this year and race next year as i said in earlier threads ive watched 30 libs from the southroad mainly devon and cornwall and at only six of them i didnt see a peregrine strike i aint going to waste my time and effort throwing said birds away id rather not race some libs are absolute carnage i can see what some have grasped already the political route is a total waste of time and as jimmy put earlier on this thread no ones up for the fight we have been talking but its actions that count the rpra should stand up and defend the rights of its members the only way you will end this carnage is to draw a line and say no more! the cost of the stand one seasons flying so the 4000 peregrines will be in the hands of mother nature 33% will be gone that years youngsters will be non existent and more to the point the rspb will have to explain to its members and the general public the reason why the wild bird population showed a massive drop in numbers i cant see any other way.pigeon fanciers all over britain hold the key keep your pigeons out the sky and they will come to the table if they dont so be it the pigeon eating predators of this island will be pegged back to a reasonable level by your own hand its an easier choice for me as i said earlier my circumstances differ from yours at this moment in time and i understand some peoples resistance petitions dont work the political route dont work cause the rspb dictate certain policy within defra. and something is wrong with in the governing body of this sport thats a FACT

[preston powerblast]

I have to agree with everything you have said Darren.

But fanciers should wake up and pull their fingers out.

To be quite, they all sit and moan about the state of the fancy, but as you say do absolutely nothing about it.

Action taken on their behalf, fails for one reason and one reason only.

They can't be bothered.

The reason for this, there are huge divides in the fancy.

They need to set their differences aside and all start singing from the same hymn sheet.

One thing that does really annoy me, is that they are are happy to shout from the behind the banner of Save Our Songbirds.

But are very quiet on the Save Our Racing Pigeons front

Save our songbirds, says nothing about the plight of the racing pigeon fancier and to be honest, the argument is flawed, that's why they are getting nowhere fast.

With the right support and the right attitudes, we can do something about it.

So I think it's time that fanciers got a backbone.

At least the SHU, tried to do something about, but were not supported like they should have been.

This is not a new issue, it's been going on for over the last 10 years.

[OLDYELLOW]

I have to agree with everything you have said Darren.

But fanciers should wake up and pull their fingers out.

To be quite, they all sit and moan about the state of the fancy, but as you say do absolutely nothing about it.

Action taken on their behalf, fails for one reason and one reason only.

They can't be bothered.

The reason for this, there are huge divides in the fancy.

They need to set their differences aside and all start singing from the same hymn sheet.

One thing that does really annoy me, is that they are are happy to shout from the behind the banner of Save Our Songbirds.

But are very quiet on the Save Our Racing Pigeons front

Save our songbirds, says nothing about the plight of the racing pigeon fancier and to be honest, the argument is flawed, that's why they are getting nowhere fast.

With the right support and the right attitudes, we can do something about it.

So I think it's time that fanciers got a backbone.

At least the SHU, tried to do something about, but were not supported like they should have been.

This is not a new issue, it's been going on for over the last 10 years.

Yup am quite happy with the song bird angle on my facebook wall there's a photo of a green woodpecker killed by percy yup these are on the red list pigeons will never be on any red list and there numbers are boosted each year by us the fanciers , petitions have been done = nothing has happened , perhaps if the message was clearly under the noses of the pm and mps and disruption to London occurred ( which would cost millions of pounds even worse if done in Olympic games and would reach a higher profile, then and only then would we be actually heard , as long as pigeons aren't endangered then the argument for protecting the vast numbers of pigeons is going nowhere , I'm actually trying to help rather than be a sheep and follow I'll try to give a cause worth following

[preston powerblast]

What you say is true and something should be clearly be done about it. But from my point of view that's a different argument and if the powers that be. Would take greater steps to fight natural diseases like Trichomonosis, which has affected the wild bird population, with might I add with devastating effects in 2006/07/08/09.

Urge every home owner to reinstate hedgerows with have been steadily torn out and replaced with wooden fences.

Then maybe a lot of favourite garden species may return and grace our gardens once more, because they have lost their natural habitats, with the removal of hedgerows.

Demonstrations would work as well as the sending of hundreds and thousands of letters and emails, to the pigeon unions, to local MP's.

The best thing about it is that it can all be done be for free.

Don't get me wrong, I am extremely sympathetic to the plight of our wild birds. But for me this is another issue.

[OLDYELLOW]

If we go back to when wild birds song birds were in abundance BOPS were in relatively low numbers and endangered and quite rightly put on protection , yes there's lots we could do to help the wild bird and song bird populations like growing more hawthorn hedges and planting more broad leaf natural species of trees namely beech oak ectra and ensuring all chimneys are capped reduction in corvids carrion and magpies , getting milk delivered the blue tit used to take the cream from the milk each morning , but this won't help until the BOPS are controlled back to suitable numbers so whatever angle is taken the goal has to be the reduction in BOP numbers and this will only be achievable by the help of the general public on our side no matter how it's put pigeons aren't endangered now and wont be in another 100 years , however in the next 20 years many of the common wild birds and song birds will be long gone , the once abundant house sparrow has seen the biggest decline , the reason is the sparrow hawk this is the biggest reason the sparrow hawk has moved on to bigger prey been mainly pigeons , no point in going down a road that's going nowhere what we need is action to create reaction , what a site would hundreds of fed wagons bringing London to a stand still would have , along with a spokesman who has a vast knowledge of facts and figures to back up our plight who could act as our voice spokes person to get our plight raised in order to bring about change in the archaic protection bill to species that aren't in decline or in endangered numbers .

[preston powerblast]

I agree wholeheartedly mate.

[preston powerblast]

Please view our online petition

My link

[Guest bluemorning]

well said lads but also we must be seen to help ourselfs,the shawyer report gave some recomedations like a break in racing when peregrines are at the peak of feeding young also alteration to race routes. i also replyed to post on raptors about us supporting save our song birds and if we support each other with one goal in mind then we may have a chance to change things but on the shawyer report most pigeon losses were due to straying so we have to change things ourselfs and move forward.

 

very good posts lads

[OLDYELLOW]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/protectbritishsongbirds/signatures = petitions come to nothing last one I did 105 on

[preston powerblast]

Excellent points made there and I agree, we should all be seen to be working together. We also need all the organisations to rethink all their strategies, as we all have a common goal.

All their previous strategies have seemed to have gone stale and just don't seem to be having any serious impact.

[OLDYELLOW]

Here this may be the way to go with a .gov petition then it's in the face of those who can make a change :

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/

[preston powerblast]

That's what I'm talking about mate. At least you made the effort to do something and I applaud you for your efforts.

The fancy itself, is open to much criticism.

Because they moan and groan and say things like something has to be done. But very rarely do they actually motivate themselves to do something about.

When you take a serious look at how many fanciers there are in the British Isles, there is a hell of a lot.

Imagine the might that sort of number would have.

It would have some considerable clout.

We could do with one person to collect all these half finished petitions together and collate all the names together and keep pushing these petitions.

At the end of the day, we are only a few individuals and without the might of the whole fancy behind us, we are nothing.

 

I already applied for one of those petitions and never got a reply, let alone a rejection.

[OLDYELLOW]

That's what I'm talking about mate. At least you made the effort to do something and I applaud you for your efforts.

The fancy itself, is open to much criticism.

Because they moan and groan and say things like something has to be done. But very rarely do they actually motivate themselves to do something about.

When you take a serious look at how many fanciers there are in the British Isles, there is a hell of a lot.

Imagine the might that sort of number would have.

It would have some considerable clout.

We could do with one person to collect all these half finished petitions together and collate all the names together and keep pushing these petitions.

At the end of the day, we are only a few individuals and without the might of the whole fancy behind us, we are nothing.

Quite agree look at the attendance of Blackpool 100,000 = 600 signed a similar petition , we are our own worse enemy time fer the union to grow a pair and organise us cos we certainly aren't fit to do it ourselves

[preston powerblast]

Spot on mate and I'm in full agreement.

I do think that the RPRA hold the key.

I've had an email off Stewart Wardrop today about my website.

So I'm going to ring him tomorrow, I might be in for a bollocking, but at least we are making the right noises.

[Guest darren cantrill]

Spot on mate and I'm in full agreement.

I do think that the RPRA hold the key.

I've had an email off Stewart Wardrop today about my website.

So I'm going to ring him tomorrow, I might be in for a bollocking, but at least we are making the right noises.

 

why would you be in for a rollocking? i for one think he should respect the fact that you are doing something beneficial for the sport and should be thanked for bringing it to the publics attention.im all for every aspect of bringing the BOP problem to the fore. i received some very good advice on an earlier thread off a gentlemen called walter who was part of the shu effort who attempted to bring about a change in the law concerning BOP and he has explained to me how frustrating it can and will be. everyone including defra are running scared of the rspb and no matter how many petitions meetings or promises made every elected government is frightened of their power.they have embedded themselves within the policy making structure they have members on every conceivable wildlife and countryside group.they even have there own police force enforcing the wildlife and protection act they look to the rspb for advice the very fabric of policy making in this country today has to have their consent even the building of airports powerstations new homes you name it if they dont want it it aint happening.the one thing they need more than anything is your racing pigeon to feed their raptors and do you know why the raptor is so important to them?????? its an indicator of pollutants within our eco system every bird of prey they get there hands on after death is dissected they check for pollutants heavy metals etc BOPs are a living scientific study and the racing pigeon is the food source with out putting nature out of balance!

[preston powerblast]

I know mate and know how these things work.

Over the years I have worked closely with various agencies and know how devious they can be.

I was talking with a friend of mine an ex gamekeeper for many years, he was telling me how to about the action that I am taking and all the legal implications.

So I have to tread carefully.

He reckons it can be done.

He was telling me how the BASC, WAGBI and the Farmers Union, backed him.

[Guest darren cantrill]

why would you be in for a rollocking? i for one think he should respect the fact that you are doing something beneficial for the sport and should be thanked for bringing it to the publics attention.im all for every aspect of bringing the BOP problem to the fore. i received some very good advice on an earlier thread off a gentlemen called walter who was part of the shu effort who attempted to bring about a change in the law concerning BOP and he has explained to me how frustrating it can and will be. everyone including defra are running scared of the rspb and no matter how many petitions meetings or promises made every elected government is frightened of their power.they have embedded themselves within the policy making structure they have members on every conceivable wildlife and countryside group.they even have there own police force enforcing the wildlife and protection act they look to the rspb for advice the very fabric of policy making in this country today has to have their consent even the building of airports powerstations new homes you name it if they dont want it it aint happening.the one thing they need more than anything is your racing pigeon to feed their raptors and do you know why the raptor is so important to them?????? its an indicator of pollutants within our eco system every bird of prey they get there hands on after death is dissected they check for pollutants heavy metals etc BOPs are a living scientific study and the racing pigeon is the food source with out putting nature out of balance!

 

the racing pigeon doesnt imbalance the study cause it comes from a controlled environment they are mainly free from disease so as food for the breeding stock of raptors they generate a stable food source and to those who see a flaw in this argument why do you think they do studies to check the stable diet of the peregrine it aint for our benefit its because it influences the outcome of there studies on pollutants in the environment so they need to know the amount of racing pigeon consumed they have the figures to hand every year when they clear away the thousands of rings from around the nestsites it aint to hide anything from us they are deducting the unnatural racing pigeon food source from their results

[preston powerblast]

But at the end of the day, we are not asking for them to have mass culls. On the contrary, we are asking for a solution to the problem.

Even if it means supplying food sources indirectly.

There is always a solution to any problem, but it's just finding it.

But obviously the urban sparrowhawk is becoming a huge problem.

It would be good if we could all take a year off racing and keep all of our birds in. But I don't suppose this would happen.

Surely they must be aware of the implications for overpopulating any species.

I would think that if pigeon racing was suspended for a year, then they would turn their attention to game birds and wildfowl and maybe opening up another can of worms.

[Guest darren cantrill]

But at the end of the day, we are not asking for them to have mass culls. On the contrary, we are asking for a solution to the problem.

Even if it means supplying food sources indirectly.

There is always a solution to any problem, but it's just finding it.

But obviously the urban sparrowhawk is becoming a huge problem.

It would be good if we could all take a year off racing and keep all of our birds in. But I don't suppose this would happen.

Surely they must be aware of the implications for overpopulating any species.

I would think that if pigeon racing was suspended for a year, then they would turn their attention to game birds and wildfowl and maybe opening up another can of worms.

 

well said there are a few solutions to the problem the fact that we can if needed take away the staple food source is the line that no one wants to cross but it is an option it is about compromise and thats where we all have different views the fact that the pigeon fancy as a whole doesnt have a voice is because we are a minority sport there isnt enough of us to force them to the table to discuss a compromise so what do we do? the rpra are not a big enough organisation to sit at their debating table no matter how loud you scream the forces that be within defra have selective hearing.so if ignored what is the next step well we could ask for something along the lines of a judicial review that would be expensive but maybe worth while.if this doesnt help the cause then i dont understand what other option there is apart from some of the drastic actions some have had to resort to in this democracy to be able to race their pigeons the only solution i see is give them an ultimatum help us or we help ourselves and the birds stay at home some where in our recent history there is proof that keeping the birds in the pen had a dramatic effect on the raptors numbers im trying to find statistics from the mid 80s that backs this up and the flying restrictions concerning foot and mouth 10 years ago did that affect their numbers. what other options as a sport do you have?????

[preston powerblast]

Your bang on it Darren and your miles ahead of me.

I have a few skills which I am drawing upon.

These are media skills and believe me I'm going to pull out all the stops to bring this matter to the attention to the public, the press and other media.

I'm even warming to the Idea that was mentioned earlier about a demonstration with pigeon transporters. I know it would take some organising, but I dare say it could be done.

But I do believe we have to have to play it like our opponent and make this as high profile as possible, making full use of any publicity that we can get.