Guest slugmonkey Posted May 14, 2010 Report Posted May 14, 2010 So we are riding this horse again I have been off here a while but its good to see I havent missed a whole bunch ( lol )the whole eyesign argument centers around the ability to see a pigeons abilities by looking at its eye, this is where the whole argument loses credibility with most folks because the whole thing seems preposterous and when taken in this context, it is!!! I belive this whole debate is pointless because the center of the controversy is misguided as most dont fully understand how this skill properly developed or what the reasoning behind it is, most believe that the development of certain traits are based on certain parts of the eye this is completely wrong what eyesign does is allow a trained viewer to see certain traits of the bird by how the eye is developed and not vice versa. In other words the bird is not bred to develop the eye that we desire and thus giving us the results we are looking for it is just the opposite we breed the traits we desire and the eye develops to reflect these traits having said that it should be noted that if you developed a strain of culls their eyes would be diffrent and would reflect the genitic make up of these particular abilities or lack of abilities. I belive that Jack Barkel was a great handler before he ever started looking to the eye for guidance, I have read many of his works and belive he is one of the most educated pigeon men ever. ( I have met more than a few of the greats of the sport ) do I belive he can walk in a loft and pick out a winning bird, yes I do. Do I belive that every bird with a great eye is a super pigeon, no. I will go out on a limb though and say that if you took two breeders,gave them identical birds, and let them breed for 4 years that the fancier who CORRECTLY uses eyesign will come out on top !! Eyesign is a tool, and when used PROPERLY I believe it will help a fancier to develop a good pigeon but I do not believe that you should base your whole system on 1 thing be it eyesign or the throat or the wing I was once told that in pigeons the thing that is most sought after cannot be seen !! I think the only true measure of a pigeon is the basket and results sheet I do not belive that ANYONE can take a bunch of babies and tell which are the good and which are the bad !! most guys have probably killed better birds than they are racing ! I do belive if you take a bunch of good birds and correctly grade them by eye that you improve the odds of breeding good birds from them, again I state that eyesign is a tool and should be used as such,I also belive that the true eyesign expert is a target and treated as such but part of this is due to the fact that these experts sometimes assume that you have done your homework and eliminated the birds that should not be there I truly belive that eyesign is a viable tool but you should also realize that a DVD and a loupe does not an expert make !!!
Guest Owen Posted May 14, 2010 Report Posted May 14, 2010 I must say that you make a good case. But there is only one way to evaluate an animal that has been bred to perform. Progeny testing. Anything else will be wasting time and energy. The one thing I do agree with you on, is that all top racing pigeons will have fully funtional eyes. And just like humans, fit birds with an abundance of vitality will show it in their eyes. The rest of it is just a nonsense. This whole subject should be thrown into the same bin as ideas like Golden Couples, Pure Breeds and the like.
Guest Hjaltland Posted June 11, 2010 Report Posted June 11, 2010 C'mon then guys.. let me have your honest views on the attached image (I know nothing about eyesign and it probably shows)
jimmy_bulger Posted June 12, 2010 Report Posted June 12, 2010 probly at its best at 1100 to 1200 yds per minute or there abouts and if all we read about the theory of eye sighn is correct it will probly breed its like
DAVIDL Posted June 12, 2010 Report Posted June 12, 2010 wouldnt put too much faith in eyesign, yes its nice to see a rich interesting eye but if the birds are managed correctly the only real way to judge is how they perform racing, it seems most eyesign "experts" can tell a very good story about an eye once it has won and very rarely before.......if anyone can come to my loft and pick winners out and tell me exactly how each bird has performed, then i will put my full faith into it, i belive certain types of eye within a family which have raced well could be watched out for and /raced with the knowleage they would do some good.......but thats about all. good managemengt, good birds......dont waste your time on looking at the eyes, lets face it most pigeons are no good anyway.
Guest Owen Posted June 12, 2010 Report Posted June 12, 2010 Any geneticist would tell you that the fewer facters you select for, the better. So unless a bird is selected for performace you would be over complicating you selection. And obviously the selection of racing pigeons through performance is very difficult. To do it properly your birds must be managed to a very high standard and given fair tests. Then there is the problem of environmental factors that will interfere with the bird's results. Birds of prey, weather, wires and poor standard transportation. There is nothing easy about it for sure. However, using things unconnected with preformance to select breeding stock is mad, completely mad. I hope that the eyesign people and there friends who use other obscure ideas like this put the good eyesign birds that fail to breed winners or score at racing straight into the bin to avoid messing about with under performers again. The greatest risk of poor performances, to me, is when you breed from unproven birds. I will never understand why anyone would breed with every bird in there loft in the off chance that they might breed something or to beat the odds at racing by breeding bigger and bigger numbers.
clayton moore Posted July 14, 2010 Report Posted July 14, 2010 C'mon then guys.. let me have your honest views on the attached image (I know nothing about eyesign and it probably shows)Is this you showing your sense of humour.No person expert or otherwise has pointed out this eye is on its side.
Ian McKay Posted July 14, 2010 Report Posted July 14, 2010 Is this you showing your sense of humour.No person expert or otherwise has pointed out this eye is on its side. :D :D :D :D Good for you Kenny :rolleyes:
Guest Hjaltland Posted July 14, 2010 Report Posted July 14, 2010 This was originally a double post: http://forum.pigeonbasics.org/topic/37054-eyesign/page__hl__rock%20dove__fromsearch__1
jimmy_bulger Posted April 13, 2014 Report Posted April 13, 2014 2 eyes father and son what do the eye sighn theorist's make of them just curious.
Guest slugmonkey Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 I AM NOT AN EYESIGN THEORIST I actually know very little about it and my post was neither for or against the use of it ... I was merely stating that I think most of the time it is misused ....
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now