K index factor

[Guest Vic]

There are times in this game, when you can't afford to stand around and wait. If you have a good family of birds, that rarely let you down, through hail, rain or snow. Go with your long  acquired instinct !  ;D ;D ;D

[Bilco]

Hi Lads,

Not been on site for a week, but just seen this thread and read through it. Whoever "Vic" is he seems to think the 'K' Index is "Mumbo Jumbo".  It is a very well documented (at least 100 years old) knowledge of the way bursts of solar radiation (caused by eruptions, or 'Flares' on the sun's surface) can and does influence radio propagation and the earth's magnetic fields, and thereby compasses, which are of great concern to Shipping Companies and Airlines.  They send out K Index forecasts day and daily.  I have been trying to interest fanciers in the Index, and illustrate to them how knowledge of it can help prevent 'Smash' races and thus severe losses.   You do NOT have to be a "rocket scientist" to understand the science of it, merely have an open mind. If your mind is closed to further learning then you will remain uneducated.  If "Vic" or his ally care to ask I will be delighted to help explain as much as I know of the science. Obviously both these members have a PC so are thus enabled to access the information first hand, if they know where to look. Cheers, Bill.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Hi Lads,

Not been on site for a week, but just seen this thread and read through it. Whoever "Vic" is he seems to think the 'K' Index is "Mumbo Jumbo".  It is a very well documented (at least 100 years old) knowledge of the way bursts of solar radiation (caused by eruptions, or 'Flares' on the sun's surface) can and does influence radio propagation and the earth's magnetic fields, and thereby compasses, which are of great concern to Shipping Companies and Airlines.  They send out K Index forecasts day and daily.  I have been trying to interest fanciers in the Index, and illustrate to them how knowledge of it can help prevent 'Smash' races and thus severe losses.   You do NOT have to be a "rocket scientist" to understand the science of it, merely have an open mind. If your mind is closed to further learning then you will remain uneducated.  If "Vic" or his ally care to ask I will be delighted to help explain as much as I know of the science. Obviously both these members have a PC so are thus enabled to access the information first hand, if they know where to look. Cheers, Bill.

 

HI , I GET THE TWO E MAILS SENT TO ME EVERY DAY FROM THE SITES,MAYBE U COULD HELP EXPLAIN THEM TO ME  

[Bilco]

Hi Tammy, PM on its way to you. Cheers, Bill.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Hi Tammy, PM on its way to you. Cheers, Bill.

 

Got it Bill, sent my number and will call you tomorow as i said, have to go now , but will call you so i can understand them, have been signed up for months ,

[ch pied]

[face=Aerial][/face]

Hi Lads,

Not been on site for a week, but just seen this thread and read through it. Whoever "Vic" is he seems to think the 'K' Index is "Mumbo Jumbo".  It is a very well documented (at least 100 years old) knowledge of the way bursts of solar radiation (caused by eruptions, or 'Flares' on the sun's surface) can and does influence radio propagation and the earth's magnetic fields, and thereby compasses, which are of great concern to Shipping Companies and Airlines.  They send out K Index forecasts day and daily.  I have been trying to interest fanciers in the Index, and illustrate to them how knowledge of it can help prevent 'Smash' races and thus severe losses.   You do NOT have to be a "rocket scientist" to understand the science of it, merely have an open mind. If your mind is closed to further learning then you will remain uneducated.  If "Vic" or his ally care to ask I will be delighted to help explain as much as I know of the science. Obviously both these members have a PC so are thus enabled to access the information first hand, if they know where to look. Cheers, Bill.

hi bill, when in the mob ,i was involved with communications. the k index was transmitted with every weather reported, when the figure was high com ms on high freq / sky wave. using the ionospheres to bounce the signal / skip distance. com ms at times down by 60%. the solar flare had a disturbing effect on the ionosphere

 

 

[jimmy_bulger]

i dont really understand the k factor (SILLY ME ) but as a kid racing pigions agains't grown men,the solar flare activity realy was summit to look into as a kid.

it looks like sod all has changed.

jimbo

[Guest]

Hi Lads,

Not been on site for a week, but just seen this thread and read through it. Whoever "Vic" is he seems to think the 'K' Index is "Mumbo Jumbo".  It is a very well documented (at least 100 years old) knowledge of the way bursts of solar radiation (caused by eruptions, or 'Flares' on the sun's surface) can and does influence radio propagation and the earth's magnetic fields, and thereby compasses, which are of great concern to Shipping Companies and Airlines.  They send out K Index forecasts day and daily.  I have been trying to interest fanciers in the Index, and illustrate to them how knowledge of it can help prevent 'Smash' races and thus severe losses.   You do NOT have to be a "rocket scientist" to understand the science of it, merely have an open mind. If your mind is closed to further learning then you will remain uneducated.  If "Vic" or his ally care to ask I will be delighted to help explain as much as I know of the science. Obviously both these members have a PC so are thus enabled to access the information first hand, if they know where to look. Cheers, Bill.

 

Nice to be grouped with Vic, to become the only two people on the site with closed minds, simply because I choose to question a theory which you, Bilco, purport to be fact.

 

Here is a copy of the initial post warning us of the forthcoming event:-

 

Hi all,

 

The 'K' Index factor is brewing up again after a quiet spell. SIDC issued the following warning today:

QUOTE

PRESTO FROM SIDC - RWC BELGIUM Mon Jul 9 2007, 1143 UT

Solar activity is expected to reach eruptive levels with chances of C-class flaring activity from NOAA AR 0963.

Geomagnetic activity is expected to reach active condition levels during the next 48 hours, due to a fast solar wind stream from a coronal hole. Active conditions are expected late on July 10. UNQUOTE

 

NOAA AR 0963 is a new Flare, started up last Saturday on the Sun's Eastern face, and is coming round this way ! If that "fast solar wind stream" is still blasting out on Thursday (and I will let you know) then you can expect a poor race on Saturday 14th July. If it drops off I'll also tell you that too. Cheers,

_________________

bilco warning from pigeon chat

 

According to this, on Jul 9th, activity is on the sun's Eastern face.

 

As you know the Earth orbits the Sun in a counter-clockwise direction. Both planets are also tilted on, and spin on their axis in a counter-clockwise direction, Earth taking 24 hours to do a complete ‘spin’, while the Sun takes 35 days.

 

On July 6th, the Earth on its 365 day journey round the Sun was in Aphelion, when our north pole points towards the Sun. The north pole can only point towards the Sun when the Earth is WEST of it. By your own post, this activity was on the EASTERN side of the Sun, and as the Sun spins East to West, this ‘hot spot’ was moving away from Earth, not toward it or ‘coming round this way’ as you inferred. Further the active area would have taken more than 17 days to spin round to face the Earth and as this type of Solar activity lasts from a few minutes to a few hours, this particular ‘flare area’ would  have been long dead before it came round our way.

 

I believe the foregoing illustrates the kind of mind I have, far from closed, certainly investigative and one which considers all the facts. You on the other hand continue to push a theory without substantive facts to back it up. Where are the figures relating to pigeon losses during solar activity? And as I asked elsewhere, where are the reports of wholesale animal, bird, fish and insect losses thro loss of navigation ability during solar activity? Why only pigeons and why only when they are racing?

 

The problems created by solar activity which you outline are with physical systems & electronics. Biological systems have developed coping strategies over millions of years through Adaptive Evolution.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

Nice to be grouped with Vic, to become the only two people on the site with closed minds, simply because I choose to question a theory which you, Bilco, purport to be fact.

 

Here is a copy of the initial post warning us of the forthcoming event:-

 

 

 

According to this, on Jul 9th, activity is on the sun's Eastern face.

 

As you know the Earth orbits the Sun in a counter-clockwise direction. Both planets are also tilted on, and spin on their axis in a counter-clockwise direction, Earth taking 24 hours to do a complete ‘spin’, while the Sun takes 35 days.

 

On July 6th, the Earth on its 365 day journey round the Sun was in Aphelion, when our north pole points towards the Sun. The north pole can only point towards the Sun when the Earth is WEST of it. By your own post, this activity was on the EASTERN side of the Sun, and as the Sun spins East to West, this ‘hot spot’ was moving away from Earth, not toward it or ‘coming round this way’ as you inferred. Further the active area would have taken more than 17 days to spin round to face the Earth and as this type of Solar activity lasts from a few minutes to a few hours, this particular ‘flare area’ would  have been long dead before it came round our way.

 

I believe the foregoing illustrates the kind of mind I have, far from closed, certainly investigative and one which considers all the facts. You on the other hand continue to push a theory without substantive facts to back it up. Where are the figures relating to pigeon losses during solar activity? And as I asked elsewhere, where are the reports of wholesale animal, bird, fish and insect losses thro loss of navigation ability during solar activity? Why only pigeons and why only when they are racing?

 

The problems created by solar activity which you outline are with physical systems & electronics. Biological systems have developed coping strategies over millions of years through Adaptive Evolution.

 

Very good of you Bruno to complicate matters even further  ;D ;D they were complicated enough before

[expat1]

It never pays to knock ideas when it comes to something to do with the pull of the earths magntic force or regards the moon phases,

I for one will not train young birds when i see the Sun and the Moon out during the day together,

Been caught a couple of times and i give it due respect now, I also know of some bad races when this strange thing Happens,

Bilco will never put anything into print just for the sake of saying it, He is the same now with his writings as he was back 30 years ago when i first knew him

I remember once when i was race controller for the Hereford and South Shropshire Fed we were at Sartilly, about 20 organisations liberated that morning, My fellow there said it was a beautiful day and everyone was letting go, I said it was nice here but i wanted him to hold the birds until tomorrow

He went Light saying he was letting them go, i replied then be it on your own head i will inform the Sec what you are going to do, He changed his mind and held them over,  but was swearing and cursing me like a good un.

Next day i asked him regards the weather there he said the same as yesterday i told him to let them go. Bloody idiot he said

We had a race of 1400 yds per minute and near 100% returns all the ones liberating the day before had a tip up and a lot of pigeons out

Convoyers phoned me during the next week to ask me why i held over and i told them this

The Sun and Moon were out that morning, and the weather was hot but it had a feel about it. On phoning my friend on Guernsey i asked him what the channel was like

It is like a MILL POND he said no waves as such, and the Sun is refecting off the water and the sea looked like a sheet of Glass. Thanks a lot i said i have made my mind up, that was why i held over, and all this was due to a freak or quirk of nature, So never pays to knock things we know little about

[Bilco]

Ah, a direct reference from Iain at last!  Where did you gain your knowledge from Mr Brown?  If you look at the solar disc, the left hand side of it is known as the Eastern limb, and it rotates to the right, i.e. showing that which was on the left hand side until it gets to the right hand side, known as the western limb.  Thus when a sunspot starts showing on the LHS, it will rotate before our very eyes, and the radiation (if any) from it will, once it gets to the "quarter" point ( in my layman's terms, when it has accomplished a quarter of its visual rotation) then start to influence us because the radiation then emanating from it will hit us in the face three days later.  OK?   IF you do not accept my terms for left and right, go to SIDC who also use such terms, they should know!  I don't try to be clever Mr Brown, and blind people with science, I just use 'normal speak' language.  

The following is not for you Mr Brown, but for those who choose to believe I do know a little of what I am talking about.

Sunspot activity, is best described for the layman I think, as bursts of activity from within the sun itself, rather like porridge boiling on a stove.  These "bursts" are in fact massive, fantastic atomic explosions, which hurl billions of tonnes of Plasma and Radiation out into space, up to millions of miles above the Sun's surface, most of which is clawed back again by the Sun's gravitational field, but the radiation of Alpha/Beta/Gamma and X=Rays goes on out into space in what is called the "Solar Wind".  It is this radiation that upsets compasses, GPS Systems, Radio and TV waves, and of course those creatures that rely on their magnetic senses to navigate, like fish, bees, pigeons and many, many other forms of birdlife, and of course mankind.   This Radiation is graded by what is known as the 'K' Index, measured from 0 to 9 in intensity. The greater the degree of radiation the higher the figure, thus anything from 1 to 3 is a 'normal' background fluctuation that doesn't really upset much, but when it starts going higher than Figure 4 it brings trouble.  At 5,6 and higher, compasses go haywire, the earth's Geomagnetic Fields start moving, and most birds lose their sense of direction to a greater or lesser degree.  I say "most" because as with all things, there are sometimes exceptions, like that odd rabbit that doesn't die from Myxamytosis. Get the idea?

All over the world there are Solar Information Data Centres, which constantly monitor and gather the Sun's activity data, and furnish it in Reports to those people whose job it is to let the rest of us know what is going on. Shipping Companies, Airlines, Gas and Petrol wells, and many other activities all need to know, for reasons of their own. All Nations contribute to the upkeep of these Stations, and of course all benefit from the information gathered.  The USA, Europe (and other Nations) have their own Centres, I access the SIDC at Brussels, in Belgium, and request from them "PRESTO" Reports (Urgent, Flash Reports that tell me whenever the K Index goes over Figure 4, which is when I keep my birds at home and do not train nor race).  I also receive URSIGRAMS which are daily notifications of ongoing solar activity, usually "Quiet".  They can be useful in showing the build-up that precedes a sudden "Flare" as Sunspot bursts are known.  These Reports are issued free, and are most helpful in giving the fancier two to three days notice of when "local" radiation is going to hit the highspots, the reason for this is that while the speed of light is about 168,000 miles a second, the speed of the Radiation Wind is about 1000 Kilometres a second, so while daylight from the sun takes about 9 minutes to get to you from there, it takes the Radiation something like three days to make the same journey.  OK ?  I hope this helps.  Cheers, Bilco.

[Bilco]

I forgot to ask, Has Bart ever heard of the Laws of Copyright?  My material, published on PIGEON CHAT, whilst in the public domain is nonetheless still my copyrighted material. Fingers off !

[Guest]

My initial post [post2] on this thread was simply to ask if there was any information on losses. I am not knocking anything or anyone, for me the theory is just not proven and as it ignores both the Laws of Physics and Biology, it is also highly improbable. I was still looking for opportunities to gather further evidence, for or against ..

 

My knowledge is basically what every school child in Britain is taught. On globe labelling, North is always top, South is then bottom, East is to the right, and West is left. The sun rotates counter-clockwise, left to right or West to East. In video and TV footage of sunspot activity along the Sun's equator, the spots move left to right, so West is definitely left. 'Aphelion' is also left [of the Sun] and that is where the Earth is now, and its orbit will also continue left to right. In a previous visit to the website [at your invitation in BHW a couple of years back] I observed a photo of a flare said to be from the Sun's eastern edge - and that flare was definitely on the right side of the globe.

 

Contrary to what you imply, Earth's geomagnetic fields are never static, they are energy fields and fluctuate all the time. Nor are they on the ground, but many miles up in space, all around us. Birds are one species known to be able to sense these fluctuations. That birds can sense these fluctuations more than suggests they also have inate ability to compensate for these fluctuating fields when navigating. If this was not the case why would they require / acquire an ability to sense those fluctuations in the first place? And of course one of the fields' main functions together with the Earth's atmosphere is to deflect solar winds away from the Earth and bounce them harmlessly back into Space. Granted this causes further fluctuations and causes communications problems - knocks out satellites in Space - communication links are broken up there, not down here on the ground.

 

And the final thing I want to point out, is that coronal mass ejections are unidirectional. Just because there's activity, doesn't mean that solar winds are headed our way, an eruption on the eastern edge heads only east. If the Earth is on the Western edge, the bovver is headed away from, not towards us, and as the Earth cannot be on all the sun's faces at once, some if not all of these warnings appear more for the benefit of sunspot anoraks wanting to watch them, or , what the technology was originally developed for, the safety of the Shuttle in Space.

 

    

 

[Bilco]

Pax Iain? But SIDC still call the LHS the East.

[frank-123]

I forgot to ask, Has Bart ever heard of the Laws of Copyright?  My material, published on PIGEON CHAT, whilst in the public domain is nonetheless still my copyrighted material. Fingers off !

 

just thought i would start a discussion sorry for using your material  :-/

do you think i will get ten years hard labour from the judge when we go to court >

 

[Guest]

 

just thought i would start a discussion sorry for using your material  :-/

do you think i will get ten years hard labour from the judge when we go to court >

 

yi better hope nut as yi wont like picking that soap up in the showers lad  ;D ;D ;D

[frank-123]

 

yi better hope nut as yi wont like picking that soap up in the showers lad  ;D ;D ;D

 

man of experience i guess

[Guest]

Iam not any expert on anything but i have got an open mind and very interisted in this i supose iam a believer bilco but as a simple dooman can we keep this simple trust you to go all offical on this bruno bilco the chart shows a bad time frid/sat how accurate is the chart as far as the time bilco? does that mean late frid and early sat for bad returns?

[blackjack]

Bill i have had 8 stray ybs in the last 2 days alot of brum and shropshire lads lost alot of youngsters this weekend .I give your views alot of credence Bill on this matter i ask fanciers to look at the weekend of BICC Alencon,MNFC Falaise and CSCFC Cholet this was the weekend of Bills last warning i ask people to check the velocites thet day and returns.

[Bilco]

Pigeon Navigation Forecast shows a bad patch 20/21 July, but I do not know where he gets his data. I see nothing to merit that forecast. Maybe I'm wrong, but there you go. There appears to be no activity on site to worry us this weekend. what there was is past.  Time will tell.  Cheers,

[frank-123]

thats me learning again thought you had that site bilco