The pectorals?

[jimmy white]

I have a yearling hen that had been training badly recently, and handling her, she feels 'lop-sided' if that's possible? On one side she seems quite well muscled and bulked-out from the keel (a bit like the hull of a viking long ship) but on the other side her keel is bare, and she feels almost straight up from there? Is this a sign of injury or has something else gone wrong?

 

in my opinion this bird may have possibly have had an injury , as the pectoral muscles are on both sides of the keel bone, both should be balanced and the same , as the pectoral muscle drives the wing , its possible the birds wing has been damaged on the "bad" side, or even damaged  the muscle itself .just to use an example [not that im saying its this ] ive handled birds that have" recovered" with salmonella leaving a bad wing [one wing beating faster than the other,or  even    unable to fly due to a stiff wing , the side of the faulty wing has limited pectoral muscle easily felt on handling the bird,compared to the other side, [off course a bird like this should never be in the loft , but as i say,, just using this as an example ] so in my opinion, in this case , damage to the wing or breast  

[Guest IB]

 

In fact there was a ex member called Bruno who continually copied and pasted long winded articles from the net, like he knew what he was talking about, like you say, a waste of space, I learned a lot from him

 

Right, at least we all know now what or more correctly who, you are getting at.

 

I don’t think he or I ever cut and pasted anything like this from the web :-

 

….. (1409 IU • g−1 wet tissue), while endurance-trained birds had the highest peak lactate levels (287 mg • dl−1, extrapolated from decay curves) and fastest half-time of the lactate response (4.8 min) following exercise, but the lowest lactate dehydrogenase activity (115 IU • g−1 wet tissue)….

 

Or ever pretended to know what that badly edited piece meant.

 

Nor would he or I post about our (human) winged ancestors. Because according to evolution, if we had winged ancestors, we’d have wings. We don’t, so we didn’t. I don’t pretend to understand that. I do understand it. These are the major differences between you and Bruno (and me) we take the same pride in the information we put up - that it is readable, understandable and looks OK. You on the other hand outside Chit-Chat, waste space, and lots of it.

 

 

 

[Guest IB]

 

in my opinion this bird may have possibly have had an injury , as the pectoral muscles are on both sides of the keel bone, both should be balanced and the same , as the pectoral muscle drives the wing , its possible the birds wing has been damaged on the "bad" side, or even damaged  the muscle itself .just to use an example [not that im saying its this ] ive handled birds that have" recovered" with salmonella leaving a bad wing [one wing beating faster than the other,or  even    unable to fly due to a stiff wing , the side of the faulty wing has limited pectoral muscle easily felt on handling the bird,compared to the other side, [off course a bird like this should never be in the loft , but as i say,, just using this as an example ] so in my opinion, in this case , damage to the wing or breast  

 

Thanks for that Jimmy. The hen slept out twice from a twenty mile training trip. I noticed her drop out the kit the first time - after a mile or so. I wondered though if the 'bulging' bit is actually muscle spasm, rather than the 'straight' bit muscle wastage?

 

The other bit that worried me was the bit about the bones these muscles are attached to - the 'wishbone' which is the equivalent of our collar bone. According to the piece, these are easily fractured if a bird collides head-on with anything. Any idea how to tell if one side has a fracture and what the consequences might be?

[DOVEScot]

 

Right, at least we all know now what or more correctly who, you are getting at.

 

I don’t think he or I ever cut and pasted anything like this from the web :-

 

….. (1409 IU • g−1 wet tissue), while endurance-trained birds had the highest peak lactate levels (287 mg • dl−1, extrapolated from decay curves) and fastest half-time of the lactate response (4.8 min) following exercise, but the lowest lactate dehydrogenase activity (115 IU • g−1 wet tissue)….

 

Or ever pretended to know what that badly edited piece meant.

 

Nor would he or I post about our (human) winged ancestors. Because according to evolution, if we had winged ancestors, we’d have wings. We don’t, so we didn’t. I don’t pretend to understand that. I do understand it. These are the major differences between you and Bruno (and me) we take the same pride in the information we put up - that it is readable, understandable and looks OK. You on the other hand outside Chit-Chat, waste space, and lots of it.

 

 

 

Maybe you should look at this and compare it to your own bone structure

 

 

Yes I do know lactic acids, amino acids etc and how they effect the performance of muscles in any body, be it a bird or a human then we are not much different

 

I wasn't claiming to know all about the it if you read what I posted

Of course I downloaded it from the web, just like all the other downloaded posts that all the so called experts copy like they know what they are talking about.

 

I just don't think you can just pick up a bird, feel the pectorials and say yep you'll win, I do agree that it being a core muscle it is an important one, but no way the only one and it is a good indication of how the bird feels, but surely there are factors that are impotant to consider when judging a bird fit for a race

 

Sorry for waisting the space by replying

 

[jimmy white]

 

Thanks for that Jimmy. The hen slept out twice from a twenty mile training trip. I noticed her drop out the kit the first time - after a mile or so. I wondered though if the 'bulging' bit is actually muscle spasm, rather than the 'straight' bit muscle wastage?

 

 

 

The other bit that worried me was the bit about the bones these muscles are attached to - the 'wishbone' which is the equivalent of our collar bone. According to the piece, these are easily fractured if a bird collides head-on with anything. Any idea how to tell if one side has a fracture and what the consequences might be?

 

im just wondering if this bird had training tosses b4 these 2 , and if so was it ok then?

 

i should think if the bird had a fracture on the one side [apart from vet, x ray] i should think the wing would droop,,, or at least after excercise , the wing would droop

[jimmy white]

 

In fact there was a ex member called Bruno who continually copied and pasted long winded articles from the net, like he knew what he was talking about, like you say, a waste of space, I learned a lot from him

 

i also .like many on the forum, learned a lot from him also, theres a lot to be learned by looking through his  previous posts , quite a lot of them ,all factual and worth reading , theres no doubt about it bruno put more than most on this forum , and all worth looking through,im sure most members are gratefull of the hard work he put in to this and off course the time and effort put in to this forum , this post is not off topic as if you look back on brunos posts , he mentions pectorals  

[Tony C]

One of the most important facts regarding pigeon racing, is the "conditioning" of the pectoral muscles, at the eleventh hour. Do some believe, the trait lies within the family of birds themselves, or can some some of us, "control" them with management?  (Whatever birds that we possess!) Vic.      

 

Here is the question Vic asked again. For the novices that doesn’t fully understand it my advice to you would be is to put as many pigeons through on marking nights as you possibly can. After time you'll come to recognise this condition and when you find yourself asking the question ‘how the hell do they get them like this’ your quest has just begun. Good luck!

[DOVEScot]

 

i also .like many on the forum, learned a lot from him also, theres a lot to be learned by looking through his  previous posts , quite a lot of them ,all factual and worth reading , theres no doubt about it bruno put more than most on this forum , and all worth looking through,im sure most members are gratefull of the hard work he put in to this and off course the time and effort put in to this forum , this post is not off topic as if you look back on brunos posts , he mentions pectorals  

 

I totally agree, I learned a lot from Bruno's posts that were copied and pasted from the web. Infact I once likend him to Einstein for his knowledge, minus the moustashe

Just find odd that when some else does it, right or wrong it is a waste of space :-/

 

[Guest Vic]

 

Here is the question Vic asked again. For the novices that doesn’t fully understand it my advice to you would be is to put as many pigeons through on marking nights as you possibly can. After time you'll come to recognise this condition and when you find yourself asking the question ‘how the hell do they get them like this’ your quest has just begun. Good luck!

                                                              

 

  Tony,Well said! I coudn't have put it better myself. The best sprinter I ever raced, had

fantastic pectorals. He had many Amal cards to his credit, including two second Amals. 7,000 birds in them days. Yet a brother (bred the same year) another dark cock, topped the Amal at 500 miles, but his pectorals weren't the same.   Last year whilst putting members birds through, I quietly remarked on a pigeon with outstanding pectorals, that was corky too. I was not surprised when it won the Amal the following day. Maybe the larger pectorals suit the sprinters?  If there is one thing wrong in this game, it's  fanciers who keep what they know to themseleves, unless they are paid for their talents by other means. Selling birds, videos. etc etc etc.  Crap! Vic.    

 

 

[DOVEScot]

                                                              

 

  Tony,Well said! I coudn't have put it better myself. The best sprinter I ever raced, had

fantastic pectorals. He had many Amal cards to his credit, including two second Amals. 7,000 birds in them days. Yet a brother (bred the same year) another dark cock, topped the Amal at 500 miles, but his pectorals weren't the same.   Last year whilst putting members birds through, I quietly remarked on a pigeon with outstanding pectorals, that was corky too. I was not surprised when it won the Amal the following day. Maybe the larger pectorals suit the sprinters?  If there is one thing wrong in this game, it's  fanciers who keep what they know to themseleves, unless they are paid for their talents by other means. Selling birds, videos. etc etc etc.  Crap! Vic.    

 

 

Back to the Darwin theory, it shows that there is not much difference in a lot of species when it comes to muscle build for racing etc

 

Big pecs on a spinter and smaller ones on a distance runner  :-/

 

[Guest Vic]

Dovey. I can't see the specs on either. They must be using contact lenses! Do you reckon I need them? LOL

[DOVEScot]

Dovey. I can't see the specs on either. They must be using contact lenses! Do you reckon I need them? LOL

 

 

 

Can you see the pecs on this sprinter

 

 

If not you are either blind or you don't know what you are looking for

 

Maybe you need to feel them ;D ;D ;D

 

Maybe you would be better going to sPEC savers ;D ;D ;D

[Guest IB]

 

Here is the question Vic asked again. For the novices that doesn’t fully understand it my advice to you would be is to put as many pigeons through on marking nights as you possibly can. After time you'll come to recognise this condition and when you find yourself asking the question ‘how the hell do they get them like this’ your quest has just begun. Good luck!

 

Your words echo advice I was given this winter by a club mate visiting my loft. He advised me to handle as many birds at marking as possible. The problem at my loft was the birds weight (I've mentioned this before) and the problem at marking night is I'm usually always papped on marking sheets - either marking down rubber numbers, or reading back ets readouts & recording basket numbers.

 

But I've managed to put birds thro too in the last week or so, and I think handling other people's pigeons does help.

[Guest IB]

 

im just wondering if this bird had training tosses b4 these 2 , and if so was it ok then?

 

i should think if the bird had a fracture on the one side [apart from vet, x ray] i should think the wing would droop,,, or at least after excercise , the wing would droop

 

She seemed OK when I started training. Went to Edinburgh Park 14th April, 20 miles, and came back next am; missed 15th April (30 miles) and training abandoned after that because of cold weather. Weather improved and she went back to Edinburgh Park 22nd April, and came back next pm; reckoned something far wrong so dropped her from race team and used her as a feeder. She is sitting 2 x 6 day old youngsters now and I had a look at her other day and thought her 'lop-sided'. Tonight she was away ranging with the other hens for an hour and a half, so doesn't appear to be much wrong there???

[DOVEScot]

 

She seemed OK when I started training. Went to Edinburgh Park 14th April, 20 miles, and came back next am; missed 15th April (30 miles) and training abandoned after that because of cold weather. Weather improved and she went back to Edinburgh Park 22nd April, and came back next pm; reckoned something far wrong so dropped her from race team and used her as a feeder. She is sitting 2 x 6 day old youngsters now and I had a look at her other day and thought her 'lop-sided'. Tonight she was away ranging with the other hens for an hour and a half, so doesn't appear to be much wrong there???

 

It may be a torn muscle, is it away from the keel?

[jimmy white]

 

She seemed OK when I started training. Went to Edinburgh Park 14th April, 20 miles, and came back next am; missed 15th April (30 miles) and training abandoned after that because of cold weather. Weather improved and she went back to Edinburgh Park 22nd April, and came back next pm; reckoned something far wrong so dropped her from race team and used her as a feeder. She is sitting 2 x 6 day old youngsters now and I had a look at her other day and thought her 'lop-sided'. Tonight she was away ranging with the other hens for an hour and a half, so doesn't appear to be much wrong there???

 

maybe taken a knock earlier , but seems ok now if shes doing an hour and a half   :)

[jimmy white]

 

Here is the question Vic asked again. For the novices that doesn’t fully understand it my advice to you would be is to put as many pigeons through on marking nights as you possibly can. After time you'll come to recognise this condition and when you find yourself asking the question ‘how the hell do they get them like this’ your quest has just begun. Good luck!

 

i fully agree with this  ;D,,,,,and your quest goes on for a long long time ;D