in the last few years yb,s

[jimmy white]

in the last 10 to 20 years yb losses have gotten worse and worse  WHY?

 

in 1958 breeding a team of 9 yb,s 20 tosses to hawick 46 miles ,,in crisp boxes 3 birds in each box with plenty  air holes cut and fresh boxes and shavings each time, 3 lib at 25 mile 3 at 35 and 3 at 46 miles ,,,reversed each time,,,not one yb lost ,,,,,racing 62 miles longtown twice penrith 84 miles, lancaster129 miles , preston150 miles  shrewsbury200 mile approx , worcestor 250 mile approx  and yb national nearly 300 miles ,THEN cheltenham,, approx 300 miles end of  the season dropped 2 pigeons [one at nat sent 2]one from shrewsbury ,,gilmerton h,c club, 42 members THEN,,,[that myself ,father, george bain,and  stewart mckay formed and founded 1957 .won r u yb ave 1958,,still have trophie [silver ,not plastic ]still have results, and still have the loft book with every detail from day to day in it , birds travelled by rail off course in the" pigeon train "  wonder if thats possible today,,, i dont think so ,,,so im left wondering what was so differant then than is now

[frank-123]

the weather has changed as i always hear auld codgers saying when i was a boy summer time you had great weather and the winters were really bad

 

 

[GREENGRASS]

in the last 10 to 20 years yb losses have gotten worse and worse  WHY?

 

in 1958 breeding a team of 9 yb,s 20 tosses to hawick 46 miles ,,in crisp boxes 3 birds in each box with plenty  air holes cut and fresh boxes and shavings each time, 3 lib at 25 mile 3 at 35 and 3 at 46 miles ,,,reversed each time,,,not one yb lost ,,,,,racing 62 miles longtown twice penrith 84 miles, lancaster129 miles , preston150 miles  shrewsbury200 mile approx , worcestor 250 mile approx  and yb national nearly 300 miles ,THEN cheltenham,, approx 300 miles end of  the season dropped 2 pigeons [one at nat sent 2]one from shrewsbury ,,gilmerton h,c club, 42 members THEN,,,[that myself ,father, george bain,and  stewart mckay formed and founded 1957 .won r u yb ave 1958,,still have trophie [silver ,not plastic ]still have results, and still have the loft book with every detail from day to day in it , birds travelled by rail off course in the" pigeon train "  wonder if thats possible today,,, i dont think so ,,,so im left wondering what was so differant then than is now

 

 

 

jimmy did you keep "stock pigeons" back then, what i remember from years gone by was that every bird in your loft flew out or raced for you. in my first loft i had an old bird section and a young bird section but no stock birds or prisoners. i never measured the feeding or calculated the protien content. birds were tossed wherever you could get them to ie.. north, south east and west. but i must admit i was never in the prizes back then but if i was waiting on some at nightfall i knew they would be there next morning now if they are not home within a couple of hours after your first you just dont see them again. i think birds bred from birds who have never flapped their wings in anger will never be any good, too many pedigrees going in the baskets week after week and when they dont come home  we wonder why.

 

other factors which contribute to losses could be.........

 

1. mobile phone masts everywhere

 

2. peregrine numbers much higher than the rspb will admit and we all know the damage they can cause to a batch of youngsters.

 

3. libertaing birds in poor conditions................last weekend a fine example.!!!!!!

 

4. clashing with other organisations on a weekly basis

 

5. poor loft management................

 

 

 

[square_peg]

 

 

 

jimmy did you keep "stock pigeons" back then, what i remember from years gone by was that every bird in your loft flew out or raced for you. in my first loft i had an old bird section and a young bird section but no stock birds or prisoners. i never measured the feeding or calculated the protien content. birds were tossed wherever you could get them to ie.. north, south east and west. but i must admit i was never in the prizes back then but if i was waiting on some at nightfall i knew they would be there next morning now if they are not home within a couple of hours after your first you just dont see them again. i think birds bred from birds who have never flapped their wings in anger will never be any good, too many pedigrees going in the baskets week after week and when they dont come home  we wonder why.

 

other factors which contribute to losses could be.........

 

1. mobile phone masts everywhere

 

2. peregrine numbers much higher than the rspb will admit and we all know the damage they can cause to a batch of youngsters.

 

3. libertaing birds in poor conditions................last weekend a fine example.!!!!!!

 

4. clashing with other organisations on a weekly basis

 

5. poor loft management................

 

 

 

DONT OFTEN AGREE WITHYOU GG   BUT THINK YOU ARE SPOT ON THIS TIME, BEST RACE BIRD TO BEST RACE WAS ALLWAYS THE WAY TO GO    INFACT  YEARS AGO IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO GO

[Guest shadow]

Breeding rubbish from rubbish far to many people today put too much reliance on pedigrees I know many people who very rarely train young birds (quote) the others will bring them back from the early race, Birds pumped full of various potions from bottles destroying their own natural immunity, breeding loads of Y/B's in case they loose a few I only ever bred 30 Y/B's and on average finished the season with 20.

[Mark Bulled]

Think losses are generally down to bad fanciership.

 

Well trained pigeons from good established stock are rarely lost unless hitting a particularly bad race/sent extreme distances.

 

Why is it the same guys lose loads when other fanciers in the same race have 95% returns?

[cricketer]

i think too many fanciers dont think whats actually in the sky,1960 6 landings and 4 departures from my local airport daily,wich is an international airport now,today over 150 of each daily.

the skys are busier than the roads now.

[jimmy white]

i think there is much in the past posts which i agree with ,, there is an accumulation of factors ,   think the main one being [keeping far too many ybs , and quantity rather than quality, ,, nowadays pigeons are put through more stress, with less constitution in them to handle it , the differences from  then to now are ,,road transporters ,,[whatever is in the air ??] be it scientific?? or wild life??and propped up pigeons with antibiotics i.e saving pigeons for the sake of a piece of paper,,,,i,e, pedigree,,, but whatever it is ,, there is def, more losses now than ever ,, this is contributing to the drop in fanciers

[frank1]

jimmy did u send ur birds every week back then??????????????????

[Guest]

in the last 10 to 20 years yb losses have gotten worse and worse  WHY?

 

in 1958 breeding a team of 9 yb,s 20 tosses to hawick 46 miles ,,in crisp boxes 3 birds in each box with plenty  air holes cut and fresh boxes and shavings each time, 3 lib at 25 mile 3 at 35 and 3 at 46 miles ,,,reversed each time,,,not one yb lost ,,,,,racing 62 miles longtown twice penrith 84 miles, lancaster129 miles , preston150 miles  shrewsbury200 mile approx , worcestor 250 mile approx  and yb national nearly 300 miles ,THEN cheltenham,, approx 300 miles end of  the season dropped 2 pigeons [one at nat sent 2]one from shrewsbury ,,gilmerton h,c club, 42 members THEN,,,[that myself ,father, george bain,and  stewart mckay formed and founded 1957 .won r u yb ave 1958,,still have trophie [silver ,not plastic ]still have results, and still have the loft book with every detail from day to day in it , birds travelled by rail off course in the" pigeon train "  wonder if thats possible today,,, i dont think so ,,,so im left wondering what was so differant then than is now

;) youre answer is in the above posting ,justread it through               andy.

 

 

[Guest cloudview]

in a nut shell  

     overcrowding

    over treating

  over training  es pecially  in cold easterly winds

   oh and feeding to much protein

 

[stephen steyert]

ask some of the big names in the UNC about yb losses ,how the birds are liberated can also be a very big factor in losses

 

Think losses are generally down to bad fanciership.

 

Well trained pigeons from good established stock are rarely lost unless hitting a particularly bad race/sent extreme distances.

 

Why is it the same guys lose loads when other fanciers in the same race have 95% returns?

 

 

[stan p]

breading of to many untried pageons instead 0v the birds that av flown for you

breading to many of untried rubish

and to feading tomuch protein rubish in my opieon it never hurt them in the 60 or 70

we have all got soft with them

                                            stan

[The Navigator]

i think there is much in the past posts which i agree with ,, there is an accumulation of factors ,   think the main one being [keeping far too many ybs , and quantity rather than quality, ,, nowadays pigeons are put through more stress, with less constitution in them to handle it , the differences from  then to now are ,,road transporters ,,[whatever is in the air ??] be it scientific?? or wild life??and propped up pigeons with antibiotics i.e saving pigeons for the sake of a piece of paper,,,,i,e, pedigree,,, but whatever it is ,, there is def, more losses now than ever ,, this is contributing to the drop in fanciers

 

Fanciers are keeping too many YB. It is evident everywhere. Quality rather then quantity is the answer. Look at the YB's left in the loft after the race season is over and it hits you in the face.

[Guest cloudview]

in a nut shell  

     overcrowding

    over treating

  over training  es pecially  in cold easterly winds

   oh and feeding to much protein

 

just to explain the above a little more , i dont do any thing thats written above

  reover crowding , i have and keep to it no more than 36 in an 12  x 6 foot section ,birds are content , scrapping for perches

. no treatments ,only cider vinegar and johnsons tonic are put in water

re training , 8 to 10 tosses at no more than 18 miles before first race , after that maybe one chuck a week at 10 mile usually on a thursday

re feeding , first month after weaning they stay on the breeding mix , that they have been reared on , as racing starts they move on to widowhood mix

losses  can only remember to 05 that year it was one

06 none

07 six

08 4 in the fed  northstaffs , and ten in national at st malo

so to cap it all , nothing fancy here , so personally speaking i dont understand why young birds are getting lost , as some one posted earlier  loft management, or just plain unlucky

 

   probably have aflyaway now after this post   lol

 

 

[Guest]

what did you feed your y/birds 20 years ago (possibly only slate maize)

some of the older guys tell me they sent to the channel feeding only this and got them home

it was a case of you fed what you could get .

and for some it was spills of maize picked up at the docks from the boats

 

dave

[Guest cloudview]

what did you feed your y/birds 20 years ago (possibly only slate maize)

some of the older guys tell me they sent to the channel feeding only this and got them home

it was a case of you fed what you could get .

and for some it was spills of maize picked up at the docks from the boats

 

dave

 

your not far off there djw  , best season i ever had was flying on dog tooth maize

tried it since but no joy

[thunderboult]

my old man flew pigeons 30 years ago and the food was similar then to now, most fancier's flew natural, medication was almost never heard of and hawk number's were lower.  were as today i think a lot of fanciers put young on the dark,keep them hungry to trap and medicate with anything and everything, hawk numbers are alot higher also increasing the stress . at our place we treat youngster's like they were 30 years ago, no medication to help them(if they aint got it,they'll never have it) left to grow naturally and also left on their droppings which i think is another important way to build immunity(so long as the droppings are dry) i'll take em upto 35/40 mls training and they'll get single up tosses. we don't normally lose many yb's even though fancier's all around are losing loads and we've never had any sickness even though we hear of others in the area having problems with 1 thing or another.

[Guest Owen]

I have noticed that it is normally the same people loosing birds each year and the same ones who do not. That should tell you something.

You should not breed from unflown birds. You should not buy from studs or fanciers who can not prove that they breed from winning stock (they are there to make money and many tell lies or at least are incompetant).  You should have the droppings and swobs etc tested very often. You should not trust people to test your droppings for you (a lot are liars and will mislead you). You should do it your self. You should not treat birds for imaginary diseases. You should be very careful to follow the instructions to avoid wrong doseages. You should not keep birds hungry. You should feed the best feed. You should provide mineral and vitamin suppliments in moderation but regularly. Especially calcium, but there are others (most grain today is deficient thro modern farming). I have seen birds with rickets during the last year.

You should provide an abundance of fresh air. You should use dry deep litter for YB.s to build up immunity (probiotic). You should not try to make sick birds well (they always disappoint and drag the rest down). You should keep to the best stocking levels (1 per cu mt for OB, 1.2 per cu mt for YB). You should provide a facility to cater for strays away from your loft (a rabbit hutch style accomadation is good). You should never, never, allow strays inside your loft. You should isolate returnees until you know they are OK. You should not allow other fanciers into your loft (you can provide a loft coat and foot bath if you really have to).

Do not hark back to yesteryear, it is gone and things have changed dramatically, some good and some bad.

 

Do all this and you will have made a good start on solving the problem.

 

Owen

[Ed Bourque]

Here in Louisiana, all my breeders have been giving to me by club members so you all know

I got second hand breeders. 2008 was my second year flying I started with a team of 31 birds. I keep them in a 8x12 loft with more perches then needed, they were on open loft from April to our first race in september. I trained them in groups of 3 & 4 mostly at a distance of 25 miles. I ended the season with 23 birds and 8 Diplomas, 2 first,2 second,3 thirds, and one forth place. so I agree with some of you here that its not the birds it could be the fancier, over crowding, training, health. oh bye the way I also let my birds pick their

own mates.