Overfly

[cokacola]

Can someone explain why a longer distance is such as advantage?

 

Many Thanks

Tariq.

[DUBLINFLYER]

cods waddle.....

[cottage lofts]

on a fast day say a strong south wind you will get a faster velocity..

 

well i think its that anyway maybe wrong

i am a novice myself..

[DUBLINFLYER]

then what about the short flyer on a head wind? works both ways

[Guest spin cycle]

those that have it say it doesn't matter.....those that don't moan about it. my take is that if you divide a race in 2 halves the 1st half is going to be slower as the birds have to orientate making the second half quicker as the birds are on line for home. thus if 2 birds cross your loft 1 drops for you the other carries on say 5 miles to your mate he should beat you. the counter argument is that the second bird may meet with a mishap or delay. overfly is something you have to live with ( as long as it is within reason) and can be a great motivator. this is just my opinion i hasten to add.  

[Guest Vic]

then what about the short flyer on a head wind? works both ways

 

Wind is the most important factor in pigeon racing, and always has been. Some weeks it works for your position, sometimes it doesn't. You have to make hay while the sun shines. But always remember that any time lost, by not clearing quickly at race point, does give the furthest flying birds a slight advantage. But not always. It depends on what sort of changes in the weather that lie ahead.

[DUBLINFLYER]

i don't have it... i don't moan about it... i just get on with it... good tread open to debate... i do believe in if your in a certain area an there's a drag then thats where your gonna have your fed/combine winner... again this all boils down to the wind direction too :-/ just my opinion

[DUBLINFLYER]

rose thats the point i was trying to make it swings in roundabouts.... whats for ye won't past ye!!!!

[Guest Vic]

May I add (seeing that novices are tuned in) that it's always nice to be in an easterly position in most races.  A mile east is worth two minutes in a fresh Westerly wind in some clubs in Liverpool. compared with the Westerly counterparts. I was responsible many years back, for bringing an East and West section into the  Amal. They tried it for a couple of years, and some weeks the Eastern section had all 50 Amal positions claimed, before the Western section  had timed. Now all the old Western lofts, learnt a bit of sense and resigned from the Amal to join the North Liverpool Fed. I think my own club.  (The Croxteth) is the only ex Western club left in the Amal these days. It actually should be called the Knowsley Amal, because, location wise, there ars not many Liverpool lofts left in the Amal. Funny old game. PS we applied, after doing all the spade work, to join the Fed , AND WOULD YOU BELIEVE? THEY KNOCKED US BACK.  

[rebel]

i always find that lofts in the east side of the country dont see location and position as an advantage whereas its a differant story if you are situated in the west of your chosen orginisation

[DUBLINFLYER]

May I add (seeing that novices are tuned in) that it's always nice to be in an easterly position in most races.  A mile east is worth two minutes in a fresh Westerly wind in some clubs in Liverpool. compared with the Westerly counterparts. I was responsible many years back, for bringing an East and West section into the  Amal. They tried it for a couple of years, and some weeks the Eastern section had all 50 Amal positions claimed, before the Western section  had timed. Now all the old Western lofts, learnt a bit of sense and resigned from the Amal to join the North Liverpool Fed. I think my own club.  (The Croxteth) is the only ex Western club left in the Amal these days. It actually should be called the Knowsley Amal, because, location wise, there ars not many Liverpool lofts left in the Amal. Funny old game. PS we applied, after doing all the spade work, to join the Fed , AND WOULD YOU BELIEVE? THEY KNOCKED US BACK.  

 

maybe you should apply this year seems the wind has being east/north east most of the season well it has been here   love a good auld tough race... the boys on the can didnt do too well this year ;D > ;D > ;D > ;D

[Guest Vic]

Thing its swings and roundabouts an advantage in some races and a disadvantage in others   They use a split velo system on the continent not sure exactly how it works something to do with a breaking point dont know if using that would make difference

Rose, The breaking point system was used, up in Cumbria , where the birds would not cross   Morcambe bay, it may still be going today. It was suggested it should be operated in the Amal many moons ago,, with all members being measured to Warrington town hall. But with so many Knowsley partcipants,( one club had over ONE HUNDRED MEMBERS) We wont have that MNYin Liverpool before long. lol It was obviously defeated. Most weeks the Liverpool birds wont cross the widest part of the Mersey, just north of Runcorn bridge, and seem to come in from the direction of Fiddlers Ferry,  always have done for some reason. ANYHOW, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, I MAY ADD MORE LATER.    

[Guest spin cycle]

thanks vic...seeing as i'm the shortest and western most loft in club/fed you've really cheered me up(dizzy).....seriously though you live where you live and i wouldn't swap with anyone(ok) personally i find faster races negate overfly more than slow ones

[Guest bigda]

overfly i would change weekly if the wind  favored   the west or east, the call would be down to the weather at time off lib and at  what stage the wind direction stayed through out the race  flying into Scotland over  120 mile the wind will  put you ether  to the west of the hills or to the east of the hills at about  the solwey and a head wind would favorer  the furthest flier

[Guest spin cycle]

hang on..i know i'm being thick but east/ west loft positions and wind direction? that isn't overfly the wind blows one way and it favours east lofts the other way west but the overfly is fairly constant affected only by the racepoint. in my own case west wind helps me,east wind him but whatever i give him 7 miles....puzzled

[Guest bigda]

hang on..i know I'm being thick but east/ west loft positions and wind direction? that isn't overfly the wind blows one way and it favors east lofts the other way west but the overfly is fairly constant affected only by the racepoint. in my own case west wind helps me,east wind him but whatever i give him 7 miles....puzzled

well the day it favors him  he gives you 7 mile and the day it favors you you give him  7 mile  working against the wind has  always been the case  i have seen birds timed in the east I 3hrs in front of west birds   as there is predominately west winds in this country and the Irish lads will tell you that but the difference with them is  there ain't no advantage as it is manly head winds for all  there races   the birds  leave it to the last minute to face the wind :'(

 

[stan p]

 

  we use the breaking point in millom cumbria  lancaster castle  21 miles to us

    go east  young man first 3 youngbird races we had a lad that won the youngbird

    av  for years with overfly when they all came to getherand the races been slow

     he had to move a couple off times he would only go east

                         stan p

[Guest bigda]

Amount [time]of overfly is determined by the speed of the winning bird.

your bird flys 5 miles further than mine

The winning bird flew 1320 YPM--overfly is 1.20 minutes per mile

5 times 1.20 = 6 minutes

you have 6 minutes to beat me.

If I am not correct-- I'm sure someone will correct  this/me

don flying with the wind is alright for some but against the wind is a different thing west or east at the braking off point or line of flight to the two lofts in some races the nearest loft  has to face the head wind where as the loft that gets the overfly has the loft below him.  when blown that way. :'(

 

[hepste]

Apart from all the advantages/disadvantages stated above, there is also a MATHEMATICAL advantage for the longer flyer.  Let's say 2 pigeons fly from the same racepoint, one flies 100 mls, the other 120 mls.  They both take 2 mins to clear the racepoint, and 1 minute to land, but both travel the course at a speed of 40 mph.

 

The velocity for the shorter flyer is 1150, the velocity for the longer flyer is 1154.  So you see, both pigeons have performed EXACTLY the same, but the LONGER flyer wins!!

[dazza]

Sorry hepste that is far to simplistic. However using your example on a 40mph race ie. a headwind i would rather be the one flying 100miles anytime.

[Guest spin cycle]

well the day it favors him  he gives you 7 mile and the day it favors you you give him  7 mile  working against the wind has  always been the case  i have seen birds timed in the east I 3hrs in front of west birds   as there is predominately west winds in this country and the Irish lads will tell you that but the difference with them is  there ain't no advantage as it is manly head winds for all  there races   the birds  leave it to the last minute to face the wind :'(

 

you obviously know what your talking about but he never has to time in 7-10 mins (typically) in front of me. in the purely mathmatical sense heptse is right ..... all talk of wind directions is to do with loft position easy/west ....isn't it ?

[stan p]

    

        ROSE

                 all race points distances are to lancaster castle then all lofts  are mapt from

                 lancast castle then distance between lofts is same every week as been on

                 a bay the shortest fliers on great circle were having to give most lofts time

                 and the way the birds come they are longest fliyers it is faiest for us if  club

                 wants to fly any other breacking point or great circle club must disband

                 it is fairest for us in the fed we fly great circle west cumberland fed clubs

                 used to fly silcroft i think they still do

                        stan p

[cokacola]

Interesting topic seemingly!

 

I have an overfly of about 3 miles, to the West of the other club members, don't know how advantageous/disadvantageous this will proove!

 

Many Thanks for your replies so far!

 

Tariq.