birds of prey

[jimmy white]

no answer to my last email, maybe getting a wee bit close to the bone.

"maybe you can enligten me as to what danger they pose to other" birds" or environement" all i wanted to know ,was, what danger they pose. surely a fair enough question,  but   still  no  answer???

[Guest]

No reply from BOU either, Jimmy.  

[Guest]

You may be wondering why the thread has been made sticky.  :-/

 

I asked Richard to make it sticky as it is being used as 'evidence' in my complaint to the BBC Governors on Peregrine / Pigeon Chase clip shown last year on the Bill Oddie Wildlife programme.

 

As you will see from the email response to my submission, don't expect any word on it until March 2006.

 

 

22 December 2005

 

Thank you for your email of the 21 December 2005, asking the Governors'

Programme Complaints Committee (GPCC) to look at your recent complaint.

 

GPCC will take the appeal at its meeting on 22 February 2006.  I'm sorry

it won't be until then. The Committee meets monthly, and we already have

a large number of appeals being considered in January.

 

Once your complaint has gone to the committee, the minutes will be

ratified in the following meeting of 22 March 2006.  We will then send

you the finding.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Anna Lucas

Complaints Assistant, Governors' Programme Complaints Committee

 

[jimmy white]

exract out the cage and aviary a few weeks ago, written by a colin watson a" pigeon fanatic years ago"     heading," pigeons and the perigrine myth"

perigrines do kill pigeons,  thats a fact , but compared to other hazards pigeons face, the risk is miniscule. and like any other preditors, the falcons habitually single out the weak or sick birds,  not champion racers.....cage and aviary dec 15

i wonder if colin has witnessed a perigrine dive in to a batch of 40 perfectly fit ybs, and kill one, with the other 39 flying into anything in a mad panick, most of them injuring themselves very badly.

and to comment that they wont kill champion racers is absolutely absurd.

[snowy]

aint seen one for ages untill about 15 mins ago,

went up to loft to see if birds were ok & changed water, put a handfull of wild bird seed out for the birds at the table, went in to have a look at the tits & robins, then all made a high pitched whistle flew off then sparrow hawk just slowly flew past!

 

[jimmy white]

sent another e mail to enquire if my last one went missing" accidently"all i am asking is why the eagle owl is detrimental to the environment, and what danger does it pose to other birds,??? they answered the first one quick enough.

my freind lewis picked up another pigeon after being killed by perigrine whilst working on forth bridge, some one has taken the ring to report it it was an   s,u.05 c.a. bird if i get the number ill post it on the sight, hes telling me it goes on everyday, lewis s loft is right at the bridge and hes had plenty pigeons killed.

[jimmy white]

sent another e mail to enquire if my last one went missing" accidently"all i am asking is why the eagle owl is detrimental to the environment, and what danger does it pose to other birds,??? they answered the first one quick enough.

my freind lewis picked up another pigeon after being killed by perigrine whilst working on forth bridge, some one has taken the ring to report it it was an   s,u.05 c.a. bird if i get the number ill post it on the sight, hes telling me it goes on everyday, lewis s loft is right at the bridge and hes had plenty pigeons killed.

[jimmy white]

e mail back from defra,,european wildlife division

1;08 temple quay house

2 the square, temple quay

bristol bs1 6eb

website www.defra.gov.uk.

telephone 0117372 6170

DEAR MR WHITE                EAGLE OWLS

                      THANK YOU FOR YOUR E MAIL OF 2 DEC. TO MY COLLEAGUE,MR LAKIN, ABOUT THE STATUS OF EAGLE OWLS IN BRITTAIN. THIS HAS BEEN PASSED ON TO ME FOR REPLY AS THIS DEVISION HAS POLICY RESPNSIBILITY FOR BIRDS DIRECTIVE. I APOLOGISE FOR ANY DELAY IN REPLYING TO YOU.

 

YOU ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION OF WHETHER THE OFFSPRING OF EAGLE OWLS [WHETHER CAPTIVE BRED ESCAPEES OR GENUINE MIGRANTS] CAN BE CONSIDERED AS WILD BIRDS.THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT EAGLE OWLS OCCURRED NATURALLY IN BRITTAIN IN RECENT TIMES AND THE SPECIES IS THEREFORE CONSIDERED BY MOST PEOPLE TO BE NON NATIVE. HOWEVER, AS MR LAKIN EXPLAINED,EAGLE OWLS COME WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF "WILD BIRDS" IN THE WILDLIFE AND COUNTRYSIDE ACT 1981" THE ACT". SECTION 1 [6] OF THE ACT EXCLUDES ANY BIRD WHICH CAN BE SHOWN TO HAVE BEEN BRED IN CAPTIVITY, THE PARENT BIRDS MAY THEREFORE NOT PROTECTED IF IT CAN BE SHOWN THAT THEY ARE CAPTIVE BRED ESCAPEES. THE CHICKS OF THESE BIRDS ARE PROTECTED AS THE EGGS WERE LAID WHEN THE PARENTS WERE IN THE WILD , AND THEREFORE WILD BIRDS.

YOU ALSO ASKED WHETHER EAGLE OWLS POSED ANY DANGER [TO OTHER SPECIES] .JUST AS OTHER[ NATIVE] BIRDS OF PREY, EAGLE OWLS EAT OTHER ANIMAS, BUT  THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY CAUSE POPULATION DAMAGE. A SCHEME FOR ASSESSING THE RISKS POSED BY ANY NON- NATIVE  ORGANISM TO SPECIES,HABITATS OR ECOSYSTEMS IN ALL OR PART OF THE UK HAS BEEN DEVELOPED. IT PROVIDES A STRUCTURED  FRAMEWORK FOR EVALUATING THE POTENTIAL FOR ANY NON- NATIVE ORGANISM, WHETHER INTENTUALLY OR UNINTENTUALLY INTRODUCED, TO ENTER, ESTABLISH, SPREAD AND CAUSE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT IN ALL OR PART OF THE UK . THE SCHEME HAS BEEN PUBLISHED IN  ITS MOST UP TO DATE VERSION, BUT IT IS INTENDED THAT THIS WILL BE UPDATED IN LINE WITH THE RESULTS OF ADDITIONAL RESEARCH TO TRIAL THE METHODOLOGY, WHICH ARE EXPECTED TO BE COMPLETED LATER THIS YEAR. OUR INTENTION IS TO USE THE RISK ASSESSMENT SCHEME IN THE FUTURE TO PRIORITISE ANY ACTION ON THOSE SPECIES THAT POSE THE HIGHEST RISK.

   YOURS SINCERELY , CHRISTINE RUMBLE, SPECIES ADVISOR, DEFRA.

[jimmy white]

THE QUESTION I ASKED WAS [ ,AS SAID PREVIOUS] WHAT DANGER TO OTHER "BIRDS" [ MEANING ROOSTING PERIGRINES OFF COURSE]," BUT DANGER TO OTHER BIRDS " HAS BECOME DANGER TO OTHER SPECIES, I HAVE FOUND OUT THROUGH VARIOUS WEBSITES THAT THEY WILL KILL ANY BIRD OF PREY AT ROOSTING TIME, THAT NEST OR ROOST IN THE SAME HABITAT, AS DO PERIGRINES, ANY WAY YOU CAN SEE WHAT YOU MAKE OF THE E MAIL,   JIMMY

[Guest]

Thanks for a copy of your email, Jimmy.  

 

Takes a bit of reading. No proof that the 'adults' are captive bred, so by default, living and surviving in the wild, they are wild and protected by the Act.

 

Email bit about threats to other species easier understood if applied to threats posed by wild mink, american crayfish and japanese worm: definite proof these cause problems for native species and there is a 'search & destroy' policy for their control / removal.

 

Eagle Owl is a European wild bird:  visitor or settler, it is still protected and current numbers couldn't be considered a threat.

[jimmy white]

I HAVE BIT THE BULLET AND ASKED THEM RIGHT OUT , ARE THEY A THREAT TO OUR OWN PREDATORS , I,E PERIGRINES,GOSHAWKS SPARROWHAWKS   ETC ETC INDEED ANY OF OUR PREDATORS  

[Guest]

Very interesting snippet in today's BBC1 Landward program : the ex-wildlife manager of Eskdalemuir forest.

 

After describing how he originally fought for and then planned the forest to encourage biodiversity, allowing broad leaf and conifers, left single trees standing in otherwise cleared areas to encourage kestrel and other birds of prey, he said he felt that it was wrong to artificially feed new introductions... (RSPB policy for birds of prey) .... and that the RSPB needed to give their membership a wake-up call on their lack of reality thinking on biodiversity.

 

He also advocated 'perimeter management' taking out the likes of mink, fox and grey squirrel to protect resident birds, eggs, fish, and the red squirrels (said the forest was really for them).

[mickieb]

i gree  with you jimmy the rspb are not interested in our racing birds iused to clean there offices me and my wife mentioned the yawks killing our birds  they got really offencive with us and shortly after lost our job there  it will never get any better and  like u said in 10 years time they wont be many of us racing  plus thers not many young lads coming in the sport now

[snowy]

please all dont forget to take part in the rspb garden bird watch & tell them how many different birds & HAWKS   you see in your garden at one time in an hour, the more that take part, the more birds &    they will know about, so heres a link

http://www.rspb.org.uk/birdwatch/2006/index.asp

 

regards

& dont forget to email all your friends too/

[jimmy white]

good one snowy, ill be taking part in that, i hope many more do

[jimmy white]

we do not discount the fact that a great many of our racing oigeons are lost for a variety of resons,,,, the weather, illness, even  accidents. some also turn frral, but the fact of the matter is that if a  raptor attacks a flock of racing pigeons engaged in a race or arround their loft, the pigeons will scatter, their homing instinct totally desstroyed and they will not return to their loft. such an attack during a race andthe consequential panic amongst pigeons was captured on ch 4 in a documentary some time ago.

so really statistics mean nothing , when it comes to hawks. as ive said before

[PC]

Just a question i was told the law allows poultry keepers to kill hawks if they attack there poultry is this true ?

[Guest]

Just a question i was told the law allows poultry keepers to kill hawks if they attack there poultry is this true ?

 

I think that's the bit in the existing Act which allows the application for licenses to remove hawks which prey on game or poultry - i.e. birds of value to the country's economy. In Scotland, we piggy-back that legislation and can apply (through the SHU?) to Scottish Parliament for licenses  to remove hawks which target a single  pigeon loft.

[snowy]

please all dont forget to take part in the rspb garden bird watch & tell them how many different birds & HAWKS   you see in your garden at one time in an hour, the more that take part, the more birds &    they will know about, so heres a link

http://www.rspb.org.uk/birdwatch/2006/index.asp

 

regards

& dont forget to email all your friends too/

 

PLEASE ALL ITS TOMORROW....

THANKS

[billy_g]

hi all had a great sight today of percy ,was coming away from the loft about 2 o;clock and heard the whoose of pigeons above me on looking up a batch of about 20 birds spilt into 3 small groups and bolted like bullets in towards camelon, percy was in pursuit until they split up, poor sod gave up sad ,birds live to fight another day, il get it one day,billy  

[Guest]

Your experience seems to confirm what I have been told by Others, Billy, that the pigeon can outpace the peregrine on level flight, over time, i.e. the longer the level 'chase' goes on the better chance the pigeon has of leaving percy behind.

 

Sincerely hopes your birds drew percy off towards Bonnybridge & all points west, Billy.  ;D

 

No room, wish or invite for a Camelon percy over Laurieston !!!!  ;D    ;D

 

[Guest]

Jimmy sent me an pictures e-mails and wanted me to post on the site.

 

Jimmy quoted

"so much for bird wath [rspb]  only birds i saw were 2 buzzards 3 sparrow hawks sitting on pylons and telegraph poles ,gone before i could take photo, a few seagulls passing over high, and a few crows flying over, no one song bird IN A NATURE RESERVE, THE RSPB WOULD BE BETTER GOING THERE THEMSELVES AND VERIFYING THIS, AND TELLING US WHY???"

[Guest]

 

Jimmy's

[Guest]

Jimmy quoted "still not a song bird to be heard or seen"

[Guest]

Jimmy quoted

"AS A BOY, I USED TO GO THERE BIRD NESTING , THERE WERE HUNDREDS OF DIFFERANT TYPES OF SMALL BIRDS , BUT NOW  ABSOLUTELY NOWT AND YOU CAN SEE THE ENTRANCE ADVERTISING ALL THOSE BIRDS YOU CAN SEE, ITS OBVIOUS THEIR WIPED OUT WITH THE HAWKS , AS THERES PLENTY THERE , BUT HARD TO GET NEAR ENOUGH FOR PHOTO, BUT I WILL EVENTUALLY, IVE PICKED UP A FEW BIRDS WITH RINGS ON, HALF EATEN , AND REPORTED THEM ALL"