Campaign for the protection European birds (POLL)

pjc · November 8, 2008

it may be worth asking Chris (Vallance) as his wife is a web designer.

The Game Keeper · November 8, 2008

i must admit through my job i have seen the ever increase of hawks as they have no preditor the ever increase on release programs of these missiles of the skies are desimating the song bird population but the do gooders are only interested in there own projects well ime fighting my little battle and have done so for 40 years

PC · November 8, 2008

YES ive chased goshawks away 5 times this year when ive had the pigeons flying around the loft 3 times shouting & clapping while they where trying to hit the pigeons & twice when they had pinned a bird on the ground

last winter i kept the birds locked in to try & stop the winter losses id had the year before only to lose 5 birds in the first 2 weeks i started them flying out ( 2 highly favoured candidates for my distance team )

then theres the birds that have just disappeared from around the lofts lost track of that number now with young birds n all

then ive found i cant train from the same points to often as the hawks learn & start to turn up when im realesing the second or third batch n whole lot at once n they dont learn a lot in my opinion

then you start to look at the good birds who just drop from raceing or come back well late with a fair few feathers regrowing in the tail

this is around angouleme in france south of dax n pau where you race you distance birds from so with the summer heat here it makes me wonder about midday liberations as any bird that goes down for water somewhere near us is taking its chances

Larry Lucas · November 9, 2008

Here is an article from North America. I cannot imagine things are different in the UK:

Over 4 Million Bird Deaths Daily

by

Mark Almond

Birds in North America are in trouble. There is no question, at this point, that we must have a complete analysis of what is causing the rapid decline in bird populations. The current explanations of this problem are incomplete and misleading. The Audubon Society released the results of a major study in 2007. This comprehensive study shows that even common birds are in rapid decline and now on the path to extinction. As a follow up to the Audubon study and other alarming reports, this is a brief about one of the major causes of this disaster. Included in this study are clear explanations why entrenched attitudes and assumptions, flowing from an important event in our nation's history, are playing such a decisive role in the current crisis. The numbers and break-down at the end of this report are so shocking that the public is not going to believe that the biggest, by far, cause of bird mortality is not being adequately studied or managed. It is all but certain that we will need new museums with wax figures and recorded vocalizations so our children can enjoy the sights and sounds of the bird species that appear to be destined for extinction.

If you consult the prominent bird experts in America, you will find that there are just two main causes of the dramatic decline of bird populations. The two main problems are believed to be the loss of habitat and global warming. The problem with this analysis is that bird populations are falling much faster than the loss of habitat can explain. Statistics on habitat loss can be quite misleading. Replacing a large area of desert Sage Brush with irrigated farm land is not a loss, but a tremendous gain, as far as most birds species are concerned. This will still be categorized as "human encroachment" regardless of the actual impact on birds. In addition, there is the glaring fact that there are many more birds and more bird species, not fewer, in much warmer latitudes where average temperatures soar dramatically higher than any possible global warming scenario could ever produce in regions farther north or south. There must be another major factor, but there is no evidence to date of a deadly new pesticide or some other cause of widespread poisoning. Birds are simply vanishing. What causes birds to just disappear? This study is about the bird species that have been rapidly increasing in population while other species are disappearing. Of course, many of the professionals in this field know what's going on, but this particular subject is a large and vocal elephant in the room that creates a real dilemma for bird experts. There are obvious reasons why this subject is difficult to deal with. The main cause of the frightening decline in the populations of some bird species is a thirty year population increase of certain predator bird species. The next decade will confirm this analysis with heartbreaking finality. This report is an invitation and challenge to all bird experts to improve on this study with more extensive research on raptor populations. As you can see in the chart, even estimates based on the most conservative numbers possible, are beyond shocking. Since this subject is abhorrent to the vast majority of professionals in the field, and to be avoided at all costs, it is important to know what is behind the prevailing attitude that has led to this unfolding disaster. Surely, behind the scenes, there must be at least a few experts trying to come to grips with this problem, but there is certainly no attempt, at this point, to honestly communicate critically important information to the public.

There is a fascinating historical and social reason why the inclination to ignore this aspect of the decline in bird populations is so powerful and so prevalent. There is, of course, widespread agreement that there has been a population explosion of many varieties of hawks, falcons, and owls for the last thirty years. The only thing the public usually hears about, however, are the very few raptor, or "birds of prey" species, that are in trouble. As you will see in this report, many of the other raptor species, especially the ones who's diet consists of other birds, have been dramatically growing in number since the ban of DDT in the 1970s. It is very easy to demonstrate the level of public awareness on this issue. Ask anyone you run into a simple question. How many birds are killed by other predator birds, on a daily basis, just in the United States and Canada? You will find that the low answers are around "50 birds," and the high answers are around "2000." The actual number of daily bird kills by birds of prey, hawks, falcons, and owls, just on the North American Continent, is almost impossible to comprehend. Based on conservative numbers, that include all of the major factors, the low end estimate is well over 4 million birds killed every day. During the breeding season in the summer, the daily bird kills are well over 7 million per day - at a minimum. This is not a worldwide calculation. This is just the US mainland and Canada. Because of limited knowledge of current populations, especially of the illusive bird eating Accipiter varieties, the high end estimate of daily bird kills could easily be double for both of these staggering figures. Baby birds, still in the nest, and fledglings just out of the nest, are a primary food source for virtually all varieties of hawks, falcons, and owls. Red-tail Hawks, Broad-wing Hawks, and many other varieties who normally have difficulty catching adult birds, are death on nestlings and fledglings all through the spring and summer. The percentage of birds in their diet skyrockets during these months. Eagles, on the other hand, because of their size and diet, are not a major factor in bird mortality.

I am hoping there will be growing pressure to conduct well funded

studies that will produce official estimates based on research in

areas that have been incomplete and sketchy up to now. Raptor

population estimates available to the public are from the 1980s! A

careful study at banding stations could produce valuable population

estimates. We know that over 50,000 Cooper's Hawks, and 38,000 Sharp-

shin Hawks have already been banded in the past. How many of the

hawks trapped for banding purposes each year are already banded? If

the number is less than 1% as some have indicated, then the currently

published population estimates of these two species are ridiculously

low. Continuing to underestimate the population of both the Cooper's

and the Sharp-ship hawks will prove to be catastrophic. There were

States that warned the Federal Government about protecting the hawks

that live off of song birds. These two varieties are bird killing

machines responsible for a minimum of 1,215, 000 bird kills per day

in North America alone. It is more than double this number for the

breeding months of June and July while they are feeding their young.

Again, these kill numbers are based on outdated population estimates

which may be much too low. The number of breeder pairs per square mile

could be checked in different regions to help us assess the total.

Since the average clutch size is about 4 eggs per nest for these two

species, we simply cannot afford to underestimate their populations.

While there are still a few predator species that are themselves in

trouble, there are other varieties who's populations continue to

soar. The failure to make this simple distinction is leading quickly

to a nightmare scenario that is potentially irreversible. For some of

the more vulnerable bird species, with open-cupped nests in forested

areas, it is probably too late. In order to have any hope whatsoever

of at least preventing some of the extinctions in the future, it is

critical that the background of certain beliefs and attitudes are

understood.

I did not enjoy, to say the least, finding out that the

complete destruction of the beautiful Puerto Rican Parrot was caused

by a saturation population of Red-tailed Hawks. This was

studied and confirmed but nothing, to my knowledge, was ever done

about it. All bird lovers of course love Red-tailed hawks, but on the

other hand, we do not like the total destruction of a magnificent

Parrot species. In this case, a few parrots in Puerto Rico were taken

into captivity to prevent total extinction but the natural population

was all but destroyed.

There is a clear cut and understandable reason why this tragic

scenario in Puerto Rico has turned out to be a prophetic picture of

what is now happening on the North American Continent. During the

late 1960's we took dramatic action as a nation to save Bald Eagles,

Peregrine Falcons, and a few other raptor species from the damage

that was being done by DDT. Their eggs were thin shelled and often

would not hatch. Implementing a ban on DDT eliminated the problem

that was damaging the reproductive process. Saving these majestic

birds from possible extinction was a national triumph and an example

for the whole world. These awesome birds have been admired throughout

history by almost every culture, but the process of watching their

recovery has added an entirely new dimension to this powerful, and

yes, emotional bond. Try bringing up the subject of how the current

population explosion of the various raptors, or birds of prey, might

be affecting other birds, and you will quickly see what I mean. You

should also try asking for information from bird experts after

telling them you are studying this subject! Be sure to keep a list of

all the phone calls and e-mails that are ignored. There is an all

pervasive assumption in our culture that there cannot possibly be too

many birds of prey. We don't even question our belief that more and

more Falcons, hawks, and owls are glowing tributes to our great

success in saving them. In addition, and most dangerous of all,

everyone has the general impression that all of the various raptor

populations are always in trouble. Nothing could be further from the

truth or more dangerous to the bird species that are in trouble.

Our entire nation, for good reason, has fallen in love with these

magnificent "birds of prey." The books and documentaries are coming

in an endless stream. From a personal standpoint, the more I study

these birds, the harder it is to deal with the subject of what they

do for a living. Imagine how hard it must be for professionals in the

field who work directly with these birds continually. The examples

are endless that illustrate the difficulty that experts are having in

terms of being objective and impartial. Here are just a few of the

more striking illustrations. The main government agency in charge of

protecting birds, the Fish and Wildlife agency, publishes what

appears to be a complete list of all causes of bird mortality. You

will never guess what is completely missing. Yes, the biggest cause

of bird mortality. Also, there are various studies of the decline of

the Band-tailed Pigeon, right next to studies of the annual

population increase of the Cooper's Hawk, who's diet, by the way, is

made up of about 90% birds. Even though these two natural enemies

often share the same habitat, you will not be able to find anyone who

is willing to state the obvious. Yes, if you throw Piranha into the

fish pond, the Goldfish will disappear. Increasing the number of

appeals to the public for more donations in order to study global

warming might be just a little bit off course.

As a backdrop to how this is being managed, keep in mind that

millions of dollars in taxes are being spent annually to change the

laws regarding the wind-turbines that generate electricity. Wind-

turbines kill birds. The estimates vary dramatically, depending on

how hysterical the source, but it is realistically somewhere around

an average of 50 to 100 bird kills per day in the USA. If this is

discussed in isolation, without any perspective whatsoever, people

get very upset at the thought of losing 100 birds a day. However,

wind-turbines, with moving blades, will forever be one of the most

insignificant causes of bird deaths. Birds are always alerted by

movement. A moving object is the very last thing a bird will fly

into. The relatively few deaths that do occur are because of limited

visibility in fog or darkness. If saving birds was the real concern,

and not collecting huge fines from power companies, wind-turbines

would be the least of our worries. Household and feral cats, on the

other hand, are a major cause of bird death. Some of them have a

regular routine of killing birds. Since there are well over 40

million cats, in North America alone, you would think that everyone

would agree that wind-turbine kills are off the chart - the bottom of

the chart. High tension electrical wires, which are motionless and

sometimes hard to see, kill thousands of birds every day. Glass

windows in buildings and homes may be even worse.

The purpose of this brief, however, is not to list the common causes

that everyone else lists regularly. In light of rapid declines in

bird populations, it is inescapable, regardless of how unpleasant,

that we must improve our understanding of the number of birds that

are being killed by predator birds. Even conservative estimates show

that no other cause of bird mortality comes remotely close to 4

million plus daily bird kills. If it helps to make things a little

less upsetting, picture a pile of 100 tennis B###S that represent the

daily kills from wind-turbines. Now picture, if you can, a pile of 4

million tennis B###S. You would have no trouble storing 4 million

tennis B###S as long as you have 50 extra bedrooms in your home -

packed from floor to ceiling. It would take 87 bedrooms to store 7

million tennis B###S. Yes, enough to fill your average Hollywood

home. Exactly how far from reality is public awareness on this

subject? I am recommending that an official nation wide poll be taken

to highlight this shocking disconnect. A facility that rescues 2,000

wounded birds will destroy all of this work if they save just one

Cooper's Hawk in the process. My personal opinion is that there will

be a number of extinctions before there are any significant changes

in attitudes or policies.

The urgency in all of this is driven by simple facts of nature.

Raptors, for many reasons, dominate in the wild. For some raptor

species, the only major factor that seems to limit their population

increase is the availability of food. This has alarming implications

because there are a few predator bird species with huge populations

that live primarily off of other birds. It is certainly true that

there are many people who care much more about hawks, falcons, and

owls than they care about song birds or any other kind of bird. There

is, however, a terrible irony in all of this if attitudes stay the

same as they are now. As birds continue to disappear in large

numbers, the main food supply for some raptors will also disappear.

The very same raptor species we rescued in the past will starve to

death in mind-boggling numbers. There is also the possibility of a

major swing of the pendulum in public opinion if we lose too many

bird species. In England, the Red Kite was government protected for

two hundred years. The resulting over-population of this hawk became

such a nightmare that the whole country turned against them and

completely wiped them out. Only a few pair survived off of the island

in Wales. Can too many wolves wipe out the populations of other

animals? The answer is well known. Can too many raptors wipe out bird

populations to the point of extinctions? The experts cannot tell you

because they refuse to consider the problem. Let's avoid, at all

costs, blind assumptions and extreme positions that will inevitably

lead to a major catastrophe.

The chart below is based on the "Land-based Population Estimation

Database." The estimate, on the Cooper's Hawk only, has been updated based on FWS and Cornell studies. Cornell University has done extensive research on all North American bird species. I highly

recommend membership for their website "The Birds Of North America Online." The information below, in relation to average sizes and dietary habits, is from various Fish and Wildlife and Cornell

University studies.

The formula used in this chart is designed to provide a general

picture of daily bird kills by the predominant predator bird species

in North America.

(1) average size between male and female

(2) daily food intake based on 28% of body mass for raptors in the

wild

(3) analysis of diet with the average percentage of birds consumed

(4) average bird oz. consumed multiplied by the estimated population

(5) total bird ounces consumed daily divided by the average prey size

(6) Summer kill surge based on 2.5 nestlings and 70% of adults

breeding

Daily number of birds killed by Hawks, Falcons,

and Owls in the USA and Canada = 4,308,100 BIRDS

During June and July = 7,537,005 Birds Killed Daily

Northern Goshawk - Pop. 200,000 - Aver. Size 35 oz - Daily Kills

86,240 Birds

Size 35 oz X daily intake 28% = 9.8 oz X 55% bird diet = 5.39 bird oz

5.39 bird oz X pop. of 200,000 = 1,078,000 bird oz - div. 12.5 oz

prey = 86,240

__________________________________________________________

Sharp-shin Hawk - Pop. 1,100,000 - Aver. Size 7 oz - Daily Kills

495,000 Birds

Size 7 oz X daily intake 28% = 1.96 oz X 92% bird diet = 1.8 bird oz

1.8 bird oz X pop. of 1,100,000 = 1,980,000 bird oz - div. 4 oz prey

= 495,000

__________________________________________________________

Cooper's Hawk - Pop. 1,200,000 - Aver. Size 14.8 oz - Daily Kills

720,000 Birds

Size 14.8 oz X daily intake 28% = 4.1 oz X 87% bird diet = 3.6 bird

oz

3.6 bird oz X pop. of 1,200,000 = 4,320,000 bird oz - div. 6 oz prey

= 720,000

__________________________________________________________

Peregrine Falcon - Pop. 300,000 - Aver. Size 20 oz - Daily Kills

142,500 Birds

Aver size 20 oz X 28% = 5.6 oz intake X 95 % birds = 5.32 bird oz

5.32 bird oz X pop. of 300,000 = 1,425,000 bird oz - div. 10 oz prey

= 142,500

__________________________________________________________

Merlin - Pop. 600,000 - Aver. Size 7 oz - Daily Kills 340,000 Birds

Aver size 7 oz X 28% = 1.75 oz intake X 95 % birds = 1.7 bird oz

1.7 bird oz X pop. of 600,000 = 1,020,000 bird oz - div. 3 oz prey =

340,000

__________________________________________________________

Kestrel - Pop. 4,300,000 - Aver. Size 4.3 oz - Daily Kills 645,000

Birds

Size 4.3 oz X daily intake 28% = 1.2 oz X 25% bird diet = .3 bird oz

.3 bird oz X pop. 4,300,000 = 1,290,000 bird oz - div. by 2 oz aver.

prey = 645,000

__________________________________________________________

Gyrfalcon - Pop. 50,000 - Aver. Size 40 oz - Daily Kills 16,800 Birds

Size 40 oz X daily intake 28% = 11.2 oz X 60% bird diet = 6.72 bird

oz

6.72 bird oz X pop. of 50,000 = 336,000 bird oz - div. by 20 oz aver.

prey = 16,800

__________________________________________________________

Prairie Falcon - Pop. 30,000 - Aver. Size 27 oz - Daily Kills 7,500

Birds

Size 27 oz X daily intake 28% = 7.56 oz X 40% bird diet = 3 bird oz

3 bird oz X pop. of 30,000 = 90,000 bird oz - div. by 12 oz aver.

prey = 7,500

__________________________________________________________

Red-tailed Hawk - Pop. 2,000,000 - Aver. Size 38.5 oz - Daily Kills

595,000 Birds

Size 38.5 oz X daily intake 28% = 10.8 oz X 22% bird diet = 2.38 bird

oz

2.38 bird oz X pop. of 2,000,000 = 4,760,000 bird oz - div. by 8 oz

prey = 595,000

__________________________________________________________

Broad-winged Hawk - Pop. 1,700,000 - Aver. Size 14 oz - Daily Kills

165,750 Birds

Size 14 oz X daily intake 28% = 3.9 oz X 10% bird diet = .39 bird oz

.39 bird oz X pop. of 1,700,000 = 663,000 bird oz - div. by 4 oz prey

= 165,750

__________________________________________________________

Red-shouldered Hawk - Pop. 800,000 - Aver. Size 22 oz - Daily Kills

122,667 Birds

Size 22 oz X daily intake 28% = 6.16 oz X 15% bird diet = .92 bird oz

.92 bird oz X pop. of 800,000 = 736,000 bird oz - div. by 6 oz aver.

prey = 122,667

__________________________________________________________

Swainson's Hawk - Pop. 460,000 - Aver. Size 35 oz - Daily Kills

112,700 Birds

Size 35 oz X daily intake 28% = 9.8 oz X 20% bird diet = 1.96 bird oz

1.96 bird oz X pop. of 460,000 = 901,600 bird oz - div. by 8 oz aver.

prey = 112,700

__________________________________________________________

Northern Harrier - Pop. 400,000 - Aver. Size 16 oz - Daily Kills

53,333 Birds

Size 16 oz X daily intake 28% = 4 oz X 20% bird diet = .8 bird oz

.8 bird oz X pop. of 400,000 = 320,000 bird oz - div. by 6 oz aver.

prey = 53,333

__________________________________________________________

Rough-legged Hawk - Pop. 300,000 Aver. Size 37.7 oz - Daily Kills

57,375 birds

37.7 oz X daily intake 28% = 10.5 oz X 14.5% bird diet = 1.53 bird oz

1.53 bird oz X pop. of 300,000 = 459,000 bird oz - div. by 8 oz aver.

prey = 57,375

__________________________________________________________

Harris's Hawk - Pop. 40,000 Aver. Size 34 oz - Daily Kills 8,444 birds

34 oz X daily intake 28% = 9.5 oz X 20% bird diet = 1.9 bird oz

1.9 bird oz X pop. of 40,000 = 76,000 bird oz - div. by 9 oz aver.

prey = 8,444

__________________________________________________________

______________________________OWLS_______________________________

Great Horned Owl - Pop. 2,000,000 - Aver. Size 64 oz - Daily Kills

179,000 Birds

Size 64 oz X daily intake 28% = 17.9 oz X 10% bird diet = 1.79 bird

oz

1.79 bird oz X pop. 2,000,000 = 3,580,000 bird oz - div. by 20 oz

prey = 179,000

__________________________________________________________

Northern Saw-whet Owl - Pop. 2,000,000 -Aver. Size 3.5 oz - Daily

Kills 49,000 Birds

Size 3.5 oz X daily intake 28% = .98 oz X 5% bird diet = .049 bird oz

.049 bird oz X pop. of 2,000,000 = 98,000 bird oz - div. by 2 oz

aver. prey = 49,750

__________________________________________________________

Barn Owl - Pop. 300,000 - Aver. Size 18.6 oz - Daily Kills 26,000

Birds

Size 18.6 oz X daily intake 28% = 5.2 oz X 10% bird diet = .52 bird

oz

.52 bird oz X pop. of 300,000 = 156,000 bird oz - div. by 6 oz aver.

prey = 26,000

__________________________________________________________

Barred Owl - Pop. 600,000 - Aver. Size 27 oz - Daily Kills 84,750

Birds

Size 27 oz X daily intake 28% = 7.56 oz X 15% bird diet = 1.13 bird

oz

1.13 bird oz X pop. of 600,000 = 678,000 bird oz - div. by 8 oz aver.

prey = 84,750

__________________________________________________________

Burrowing Owl - Pop. 600,000 - Aver. Size 5.3 oz - Daily Kills 15,000

Birds

Size 5.3 oz X daily intake 28% = 1.5 oz X 5% bird diet = 0.75 bird oz

0.75 bird oz X pop. of 600,000 = 45,000 bird oz - div. by 3 oz aver.

prey = 15,000

__________________________________________________________

Eastern Screech-Owl - Pop. 700,000 - Aver. Size 6.8 oz - Daily Kills

159,600 Birds

Size 6.8 oz X daily intake 28% = 1.9 oz X 30% bird diet = .57 bird oz

.57 bird oz X pop. of 700,000 = 399,000 bird oz - div. by 2.5 oz prey

= 159,600

__________________________________________________________

Western Screech-Owl - Pop. 500,000 - Aver. Size 5.9 oz - Daily Kills

102,500 Birds

Size 5.9 oz X daily intake 28% = 1.65 oz X 25% bird diet = .41 bird

oz

.41 bird oz X pop. of 500,000 = 205,000 bird oz -div. by 2 oz aver.

prey = 102,500

__________________________________________________________

Boreal Owl - Pop. 500,000 - Aver. Size 5.2 oz - Daily Kills 36,250

Birds

Size 5.2 oz X daily intake 28% = 1.45 oz X 10% bird diet = .145 bird

oz

.145 bird oz X pop. of 500,000 = 72,500 bird oz - div. by 2 oz aver.

prey = 36,250

__________________________________________________________

Snowy Owl - Pop. 140,000 - Aver. Size 75 oz - Daily Kills 22,718 Birds

Size 75 oz X daily intake 28% = 21 oz X 17% bird diet = 3.57 bird oz

3.57 bird oz X pop. of 140,000 = 499,800 bird oz - div. by 22 oz

aver. prey = 22,718

__________________________________________________________

Northern Pygmy-Owl - Pop. 90,000 - Aver. Size 2.25 oz - Daily Kills

6,300 Birds

Size 2.25 oz X daily intake 28% = .63 oz X 20% bird diet = .12 bird

oz

.12 bird oz X pop. of 90,000 = 11,340 bird oz - div. by 1.8 oz aver.

prey = 6,300

__________________________________________________________

Northern Hawk Owl - Pop. 70,000 - Aver. Size 11.4 oz - Daily Kills

8,283 Birds

Size 11.4 oz X daily intake 28% = 2.85 oz X 25% bird diet = .71 bird

oz

.71 bird oz X pop. of 70,000 = 49,700 bird oz - div. by 6 oz aver.

prey = 8,283

__________________________________________________________

Short-eared Owl - Pop. 500,000 - Aver. Size 12.4 oz - Daily Kills

43,400 Birds

Size 12.4 oz X daily intake 28% = 3.47 oz X 10% bird diet = .347 bird

oz

.347 bird oz X pop. of 500,000 = 173,600 bird oz - div. by 4 oz aver.

prey = 43,400

__________________________________________________________

Long-eared Owl - Pop. 40,000 - Aver. Size 10.9 oz - Daily Kills 1,200

Birds

Size 10.9 oz X daily intake 28% = 3 oz X 5% bird diet = .15 bird oz

.15 bird oz X pop. of 40,000 = 6,000 bird oz - div. by 5 oz aver.

prey = 1,200

__________________________________________________________

Great Gray Owl - Pop. 30,000 - Aver. Size 40 oz - Daily Kills 5,040

Birds

Size 40 oz X daily intake 28% = 11.2 oz X 15% bird diet = 1.68 bird

oz

1.68 bird oz X pop. of 30,000 = 50,400 bird oz - div. by 10 oz aver.

prey = 5,040

pjc · November 9, 2008

thank you Larry, all usefull information.

ChrisMaidment08 · November 9, 2008

very and this should be installed as stat in site when sorted will speak to whoever on site but thanks phil

DOVEScot · November 9, 2008

Thanks for that input Larry

ChrisMaidment08 · November 9, 2008

dove.s come into my office i want to talk to you about something

DOVEScot · November 9, 2008

dove.s come into my office i want to talk to you about something

No problem sir

Larry Lucas · November 9, 2008

The information was posted on another discussion site by Bilco and is also available from Linda Joneli (Mr. Bucket). When we lived in Minnesota on the migratory path for hawks we witnessed first hand the massive destruction of songbirds by hawks. In the Spring, the sky was filled with colorful singing birds. When the hawks arrived within six weeks the birds disappeared. It was terrible to see Coopers and Goshawks tearing birds apart in our back garden -- not to mention losing 30% to 50% of the racing team each year. Devils with wings. ??)