eyesign real or fake

[bewted]

hi jack,can two yellow eyed parent birds breed a pearl eyed bird?  ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted,

 

Yes they can, but two pearl eyed birds cannot produce a yellow eyed bird.

Two recessives ( pearl ) can only produce recessives, two yellows being dominant can produce a recessive ( pearl ) if they carry that recessive gene.

[bewted]

jack,you say there are as many good points as bad points in the eye,can you explain the bad points to watch out for please?   ted

[Jack Barkel]

jack,you say there are as many good points as bad points in the eye,can you explain the bad points to watch out for please?   ted

 

Hello Ted,

 

Yes there are many bad points to be recognised through the eye, some are caused by ourselves from the way we supposedly medicate our birds,

this will leave one eye faded which if not caused by physical damage, signifies diseased liver and such a bird will neither breed or race well anymore.

 

As stock pigeons, I attach two photo's of eyes of birds I would never consider for the stock loft, 549 has gaps running through the iris like holes in a bucket. We can do nothing with this eye for like the water bucket no matter how much we put in, it will all run out.

 

2266 has a full eye, this is similar to a bucket that is full of water, for no matter what we try to put in it will overflow for such an eye is on it's limit. It would take three to four years to rectify the progeny off these birds, so by the time one may get it nearly right they will be old and grey like myself. It is not worth the time and trouble.

 

These are the most prominent mistakes the breeder sometimes overlooks, there are many others too numerous to list with hundreds of variables. The more birds one handles the more proficient one becomes at selecting which will produce with an abundance of quality, and which have a few good quality genes that may sadly only pop up on very rare occasions.

 

The subject is many faceted and I can't to it full justice on a forum. These are the main points to watch for without making the subject too long or boring.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

[bewted]

the pearl eye 1st pic,,,,,,the red section in between 3 to 5 o'clock position,,,,if this section was in a full circle of the eye,would this eye be a much better bird for the stock loft or not?    in theory a base to work and improve on?  ted  (pic 549)

[bewted]

i think i said that right jack,,,,,ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted,

 

Yes in the main you are correct, the iris needs to be wider and uniform all round. This eye shows many weaknesses, although the adaptation and the fifth circle passes the test, the rest including the racing composite is not clearly defined, showing a lot of spread.

 

This bird is in a famous breeding loft, and is off well known parents but unfortunately the same faults can be seen in one of the parents. Clearly an injudicious pairing by one who should know better. I told the owner to his face and consequently lost the friendship of a world famous fancier I would have welcomed as a friend.

 

Sometimes as with Bill Carney and Jim Biss, it pays to keep your own council and not give an opinion at all, ( unless you are being paid to do so)  rather than give a dishonest answer just to please the owner.

 

Often because one of the parents is OK, a percentage of offspring will be good, and because a person only condemned one parent, ones comments are immediately regarded as rubbish.

 

It is better then, not to make the statement that it will never breed a winner, as it takes four eyes to be taken into consideration if one knows what they are doing.

 

My above utterances are based on many years experience and not on guess work.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

[bewted]

thanks jack,,,,my knowledge from many years ago is slowly coming back,thanks to your help even if on my part a bit slow,,,,,,another question,,,deep valleys and high mountains in the eye,can you explain,this also from old racing days,,,,regards   ted

[Jack Barkel]

 

Hello Ted,

 

Yes they are very acceptable if not overdone. It is like a muscle builder that wishes to increase his muscle size to look more attractive. He eventually ends up sluggish and muscle-bound but no one can say he doesn't look good.

 

I would say I would rather the eye looks as if it has been painted on with oil paints rather than with water paints. Bill Carney had his own expression for a water painted eye with no definition, he referred to it as Wishy Washy.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Jack

 

[bewted]

helps a lot and can now recall bill carney saying wishy washy eyes,,,thanks jack,much appreciated,,,ted

[bewted]

pic 549,circle no 2,,,,the dark shadow from 3 to 7 oclock position,,,,does this indicate what type of pigeon it is breeder/racer,if in other position say 12-3 oclock,would it be better or worse,,,,ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted,

 

You will never find the composite between 12-3 o - clock, that is not be found on racing pigeons. This photo is taken of the right eye, and you will find the composite normally from 4-0-clock to 7 o-clock and then it increases from 2-0' clock around to 10-0' clock and then full circle composite. In this case the composite is not clearly defined around the outer edges. It fades away into the correlation showing weakness for racing and breeding. I would not have a pigeon as a present with this bird in it's pedigree, although they are exported all over the world for large amounts of money. We most times know what is good in a pedigree, but it will not reveal to us what is bad. Many people buy birds for lots of money that are worth very little if anything, we must do our homework before deciding on introducing a pigeon into our stock loft.

 

By the way I usually photograph the left eye so I am not the photographer who took this photo. In fact I have no photographs taken by myself of eyes not fit for the stock loft. Pigeons with bad eyes I remove before anyone can ever see them, for I still breed 10% that are not to my liking.

This is the average amount of unwanted genes I seem to have floating around in the gene pools of my pigeons. Not many in the world dare utter such a statement knowing it can't be backed up with records, we can safely say we have records and eye witnesses to back up our claim. If ever a bird is acquired from our establishment that does not come up to expectations it will have to be acquired in the first year of it's life, for once the birds physical attributes and eye sign is established there can be no mistakes.

 

The average statistics throughout the world are 7% good and 93% bad that are produced among all fanciers. I can't afford to be part of that average statistical equation.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

[bewted]

hi jack,me again,,,,,,as usual!!!!    CIRCLE 3 and 4,,,,is there any preferance for width of circle as for eg;no 3 being twice as wide as no 4 or vice versa? no 2 circle;which would be best on outer perimeter of no 2,a clean cut edge or serrated?    hope i am not boring you with all my questions jack?  regards  ted

[bewted]

sorry jack,another question; you say two yellow eyes can breed a pearl if one carries recessive gene,,,,for eg;this pair breed 12 young,what percentage of ybs will be pearl eyed on average?    ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted,

 

We cannot fix a percentage on two yellows breeding a pearl, it is very seldom but can happen that such a pair will breed a pearl, but not with regularity. I think it all depends on Mendel which part of his law he decides on breaking.

 

If No 3 (the correlation) is twice as wide as No 4 (the iris),  then you will breed mainly short fast blow home pigeons. If No 4 (the iris), is twice as wide as No 3 (the correlation) the situation is preferable, but you will be breeding towards slower pigeons with less vitality and speed, but more stamina.

I accept nothing less than a well balanced eye for my stock loft, no matter the marvellous performance pedigree it might have.

 

This is my replies to your last two e-mails.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

[bewted]

hi jack,thanks for info,,,,,,is it possible to post a pic to show a well balanced eye for comparison  please,,,regards ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted,

 

Here are two well balanced eyes, one in the pearl and one in the yellow, these are two of my own Busschaerts.

 

Jack

[bewted]

thanks jack,brilliant photos,,,,,the pearl eye pic,my cock bird much the same,but,circe 4(red) in mine has about 20-25% percent less,eg;inside red colour less red and same red as outside as yours,hope you can understand that jack?

[bewted]

hi jack,got your email opened through a friends pc on"how to photograph the eye" thanks jack,much appreciated,,,,regards  ted

[Guest Silverwings]

hello jack barkel , would be a nice idea to do a live video clip close up , of different eyes to allow the enthusiasts on this sight to see the different levels of activity that goes on in there ? or has it already been done ? keep up the posts jack realy interestng stuff.......ray

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ray,

 

Yes I think it is a good idea, but I myself although I have a digital movie camera, cannot seem to get the quality one needs to make a good job of such a presentation.

 

I am busy with a DVD/CD on the subject of eye sign in which I would like to incorporate some live visuals, unfortunately as I say, I will need a lot of research and practice before I can release such a presentation to the public.

 

I have seen videos of eyes taken from stills, but I have not seen it done with the capture of live examples.

 

I will try to answer all posts regarding eye sign or pigeon iridology.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Jack

 

[piller]

Hi Jack,

I also would like to know "How to photograph the eye", if possible could you please post here or email me?

Thanks,

Chip

[Guest]

Chip,

 

It's a long Holiday weekend in South Africa and I don't think Jack will be back at his puter before Monday

[bewted]

good morning jack,hope your ok,got my yellow eyed white for pearl eyed cock,two more birds of this site to come soon,,,,,let you know in due course of the reslts,,,,thanks again jack,have a nice weekend,,,ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Chip,

 

Send me your private e-mail address and we will send you some information.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

jackbarkel@mweb.co.za