eyesign real or fake

[bewted]

thanks jack,,,,,so,if,the keel is longer than what you describe with fingers apart on keel bone,it is more desirabe?   i only ask as differance of size in poeples hands and fingers,,,,,regards  ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted,

 

I do not think I would be considered to have small or large fingers and hands, but rather the average. I enclose a photo taken this morning, the cock is an Andre van Bruaene and a grandson of The Marathon, which was a full brother to Barcelona ll.

 

I have won from 100 miles and 600 miles in the same year with this pigeon, I have no doubt in my mind that this is one of the characteristics needed for good all distance pigeons.

 

Regards

 

Jack

[bewted]

thanks jack,the perfect measure of keel.will watch this in my breeding,thanks,your a true gent and sportsman,,,,regards   ted

[bewted]

hi again jack,is there any trueth in the position of eye,,,,have read that it is best if forward of normal position,,,ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted and All

 

If I can add my findings to help answer the above question, it is my contention that the racing pigeon inherits its main attributes, from the species with long distance capabilities and the attributes of the Navigator. However to give the pigeon more buoyancy, fancy pigeons were added that had smaller bones and were very light in body weight. These birds could fly very high up into the clouds and had eyes running below the beak line as they needed this facility to scan the earth and all things below the heights at which it was designed to fly.

 

 

 

 

The navigator however needed the eye to be above the beak line to be the fixed hub of its circle of vision. There are many variables to that, which I have explained, in other articles, but the good breeder is always aware and on the lookout for these physical differences that separate the normal homer from the athletic types we look for.

 

 

 

The racing pigeon was always at risk of being struck down by birds of prey that flew above him, and which have eyes in the front of the head by the way. That is why nature placed the eyes of the long distance pigeon in this advantageous position so it could see the enemy before it struck. Most good birds have a swivel reaction in the eye, I believe it is there for the bird to be able to swivel its eyes in any direction. Not only in the forward motion to see where it is going and to prevent flying into electric cables and other aerial objects that they can come onto very quickly when flying at speed, but also to swing their eyes upwards and backwards to observe birds of prey that may be contemplating catching an easy meal.

 

 

 

Not all birds have this startling ability, but I can assure you that the exceptional birds all have it. Not only does it seem to increase the birds orientation in flight, but also the balance which works with the liquid in the balance bone of the inner ear. One can grade the good racers on this particular point but not necessarily in the stock pigeons, although I prefer it to be a feature in all my own birds.

 

 

 

In short, everything must be well balanced, Bone structure, Body Muscle, Wings, Tail, Height from head to toe, and length from beak to tail. The eye therefore must be central to give all round visibility, one certainly does not want the eye to be near the front or back or above or below the beak line.Such theories are based on rumour of one supposedly good pigeon that inherited this bad characteristic. If we look for common sense reasons why eyes and other characteristics should not vary, we will see the reason why good evaluators are not so easily knocked off their perch, with old wives tales.

 

 

 

This is only one small portion of what I look for in these athletes of the sky, I hope this will encourage fanciers to take a closer look at their pigeons, before deciding it is perfect in every way, just because it happened to win at some time or other. I think I have gone on again too long, well this is me, how I think and how I ramble on when in good pigeon company.

 

 

 

Sorry for the long replies.

 

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

Jack

 

 

[bewted]

hi jack,thanks for great writings,do not be sorry for long replies or worry about rambling on in writings of pigeons,,,,,,,i am more than willing to read,study and learn.even now,i cast a critical eye on my few pigeons and wonder,did jack mean this or that,is this good,bad or maybe yes or maybe no?i am slowly putting all info together in my brain,you have ben of enormous help,so,,,,,ramble,long replies are very,very welcome to me,,,,regards,  ted

[mealybar]

Sorry to come back to a topic already covered, but I've just read the last few days postings. Secondary flights; what length would you consider short/long. I remember reading in some of your previous writings on the SAPML about cutting the secondaries, please could you jog my memory and remind me what purpose this was for.

 

Thanks

Richard

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Richard,

 

If there is a step in the wing between the secondary flights and the first primary flight, consider them short, no matter how slight the step may be. Long secondary flights leave no step in the wing, they are level with the No 1 primary flight.

 

 

As the purists do not harbour pigeons in their team with short secondary flights, such a family will have a slower but more easy wing beat than sprint pigeons. We also are aware that long distance pigeons can win a short fast race, but sprinters cannot win a hard long race. Again this is partly because all sprinters have these short secondary flights. Now to viably only keep a racing team of classic pigeons, and still compete in the short fast races we need to select a small portion of our team just for these events.

 

By trimming about one quarter inch or 6 millimetres off the secondary flights of these few selections for the shorter races, we create a faster wing beat and a faster speed. However those birds that have had this alteration must not be entered in the longer races, unless the weather forecasters predict a tail wind on some long event.

 

If one is not bothered about the speed merchants gaining a lot of points early in the season, making it difficult to catch up on the longer races, then sit back and wait for the classic events, where one will make their name. If on the other hand one wishes to keep abreast of the points so that these speed specialists do not run away with a large accumulation of points, this is the way to make them think again about breeding short distance blow home pigeons.

 

This is how the clever professionals select and alter some of their race team, to keep them competitive at all distances. In days to come these short distance racing fanciers and their performances will be forgotten forever, whereas people like Cattryse and van Bruaene, Dr Jeff Horn of Up North Combine fame, and many others will go down in history for time immemorial.

 

I am not against sprint races, I am against pigeons bred for speed, and I know that they and their breeders, will never be recorded in the pigeon hall of fame.

 

My belief is, breed for distance and design for speed, I think this will be a first for many fanciers reading my articles for the first time. I do not see anyone else opening their hearts to the new starters and old hands alike as I am doing, most will take their knowledge to the grave with them, rather than make their competitors more competitive.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

 

[bewted]

hi jack,you mentioned previously;height from head to toe,lenght from tail to beak in well balanced bird,could you plz explain further,,thank you,,,ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted,

 

I am sure that you will come across many fanciers that handle a bird, give it a little juggle in their hands and make the statement that this bird is well balanced. This is ridiculous for you can not gauge the balance of a pigeon like you can a hunting knife.

 

When viewing a pigeon from a side view, it must look as high from head to foot, as it does from front to tip of the tail. When facing front on it must appear long and narrow not broad and stunted in height e.g. it must stand tall and narrow.

 

This is balance and can not be perceived in any other way. I do believe that a Show Judge when judging racing pigeons should take these features into consideration. I once put a broad chest short legged Mealy Cock in a show racer class, "the most likely racer on show", my wife and I called him "Glamour Boy" and sure enough he won his class outright. This pigeon was so out of balance, that this was the only prize he ever won, a show prize. Too many judge a racer on good looks not on athleticism. They would give the racing prize to an  Arnold Swartzeniger type rather than the spindly Roger Bannister or Chris Chattaway type????

 

There are lots of fallacies in the pigeon game and this is just another one of them.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Jack

 

[bewted]

thanks jack,helps a lot,,,,,,,now all i have to do is; think of my next query to ask you.   regards   ted

[bewted]

hi jack,thick feathering,,,,,how is this achieved,have an idea,but,want to see if my thoughts are on same track as yours,,,regards  ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted,

 

I have no special anecdotes for thick feathering , but for to say it is quite a regular feature in long distance pigeons of quality.

 

The best example I ever saw of this in a strain of pigeons was the Scottish Kirkpatricks, that had to fly into ever increasing cold temperature the further north they had to fly.

 

For those who like to part the breast feathers to look at the skin, one could not do this on a genuine Kirkpatrick.

 

The more one breeds to particular features such as thick feathering, the more regular and predominant they become.

 

Regards

 

Jack

[Guest]

I think if you can cast your mind back to your first visit Jack, you will probably remember that Stacksteads 60069 which is my Barker cock from England, had extremely thick feathering on the breast, you cannot see his skin when you part it.

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Hyacinth,

 

Yes I rember the Barker Cock, and many other birds that impressed me in your loft.

 

Close thick feathering was another characteristic of the Barker strain.

 

Regards

 

Jack

[bewted]

hi jack,if the secondary flights were slightly longer,2-4 mm approx,is this a good or bad point for a racing pigeon?  ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted,

 

I have never seen them 4mm longer, but I would rather them longer than shorter as this is easily rectified by trimming. If any thing I would presume it to be no hindrance at all.

 

Regards

 

Jack

[bewted]

thanks jack,i only asked that question,as,i have a yb to come out of the nest that has this slightly longer secondaries,maybe not 4 mm,but,quick guess sorry about that,but,head getting in all your writings,thought i had a barcelona champ in nest haha,if only,,,,once again jack,thanks  ted

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Ted,

 

You may have an extra special bird there, but I think it may rectify the balance after completion of its first moult.

 

This is what I believe it to be all about, OBSERVANCE.

 

However not a bad sign at all.

 

Regards

 

Jack

[snowy]

hi jack,

eye sign, balance, feathering, all this and more,

in your experience of observing the long distance birds, past & present,

which do you think was the best strain of bird to fit this catagory you have observed.

regards

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Snowy,

 

In my opinion the birds that fitted most of these characteristics over the years are:- The Kirkpatrick's first and foremost, The Andre van Bruaenes coming a close second, and third the Barkers.

 

Cattryse were somewhere in the running, but did not compete as well as these other strains  in South Africa.  I was at the sale of "The Tip", and "The son of The Tip" I made the long car journey to London from  Sunderland in dense fog, all that way to find my wallet was not as loaded as the London boys. In later years I tried these Blue White Flight Cattryse in SA, and although they displayed excellent characteristics they did not shape up to other strains that we kept.

 

In later years I found that some of the Busschaerts displayed these characteristics, but there again England made some great improvements to this strain, but as there seem to be three different generations or lines of this strain, some of them did not carry these favourable characteristics.

 

I do not wish to mention the fanciers that I believe were responsible for the good lines or the bad lines of the Busschaert, but can say that my own selections of this strain compare with the Kirkpatrick's.

 

I am sure there will be others I have not mentioned, but that is because I have not had enough experience with some of the other strains to pass comments.

 

Many of these characteristics are becoming lost forever through fanciers throwing anything together without any sense of direction other than it was a winner or one of its parent was a winner.

 

This is just my perceptions as I handle about 1000 birds per month, as an evaluator.

 

It is an interesting but controversial subject, and what I say has not been proven in anyway as fact, it is only my own personal perceptions.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

[Guest]

I was waiting for your answer on this one Jack.  I was wrong, i thought you would name the Andre Von Bruaenes as your No one choice.  There is not the demand for good long distance pigeons in The USA as everyone seems to be concentrating their breeding and efforts for the 300 mile throw away young bird.

 

One family that doesn't seem to be raced in the UK is the Leo Bekaerts, Steve and I found these very consistant pigeons from 100 to 500/600 miles, our Bekaert hens all stopped laying at the same time and we could not replace them with similar quality.

 

Fabrys seem to do well in certain parts of the States, but we didn't have any luck with them in Washington State BUT last year John Luchesse sent me a beautiful red cock bred from a pigeon he purchased at the Blackpool show Charity Auction donated by HM The Queen from her Fabry Stock, I have him bred to a hen this year, from Silvre Toyes Van der Espt stock and I think these pigeons will go the distance.

 

It is a dying shame that long distance flying is coming adrift somewhat in the States.

 

BTW I got the news this lunchtime that I am going to be a GRANDMA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jack Barkel]

Congratulations Hyacinth,

 

We can now call you Ganny Linda, instead of the wicked witch.

 

I think the Kirkpatricks probably led the field in this department, because they were predominantly bred for flying into the top of Scotland, where they are accustomed to biting cold winds. The Leo Bekaerts I have no experience with them at all, it is a strain unknown to me.

 

Regards

 

Jack

[snowy]

thanks jack, much appreciated for your opinion and experience., i have only just about to start young bird racing this year with my son, was given some quality stock birds by generous members of this forum.

i have a fasination in the distance birds, not for money on winning big races, just that i find it fasinating.

as a child i was given a few birds by my late uncle who raced the distance birds. i was absolutly gob smacked as a child finding that these birds flew from france.

just one more question?

if you had the best advice for a novice who wants to fly distance birds, & the breeding was there,

what would it be? ( as in train youngsters hard or some people say dont even race their distance birds the first year) regards.

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Snowy,

 

Birds bred off older birds are usually late developers, because of this fact I do not trust any pigeon to be fully developed until eighteen months after its birth, this can also be seen in the eye by the way. On this consideration all birds although many are capable of winning a classic as a yearling, if I wish to preserve a bird to do it again and again up to five years of age and more, I will race it gently as a youngster and a yearling.

 

I believe if we have the time and patience and can afford to treat them wisely we should be well rewarded. However if we take the attitude that it must fly and perform well while still under developed we can never expect to breed a champion.

 

Just my opinion,

 

Regards

Jack