birdman55678 Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 It has always been my understanding that in order to get a silver (sometimes refered to as mealy or redbar) pigeon that you needed to cross a bluebar with a red check. Is this factual? does it matter which is the cock or hen and if using a bluebar hen will the young cocks always be either silver or red check. Thanks in advance. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 try bueatyhomer for this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 Take a look here birdman55678 http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/Page1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symbro Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 It has always been my understanding that in order to get a silver (sometimes refered to as mealy or redbar) pigeon that you needed to cross a bluebar with a red check. Is this factual? does it matter which is the cock or hen and if using a bluebar hen will the young cocks always be either silver or red check. Thanks in advance. Ed completely wrong colour and pattern are on two different gene points. one has nothing to do with the other. first colour. there are three: Red, Blue, and Brown. dominate to recessive repectively. a cock carries two genes for colour while the hen only carries one. then pattern: these are T-pattern, Dark check, light check, barred, barless. dominate to recessive repectively. Both hens and cocks carry two genes for pattern. best way to understand colour is with three pairs. Blue Cock (blue/blue) mated to a Red hen (Red/* - <*> represents a hen). These will produce only two types of babies. cocks will all be red (red/blue) they get the blue form the cock and the red from the hen. all hens will be blue since they get the colour gene from the cock. then hen passes the hen gene to hen babies. Red Cock (Red/Red) mated to a Blue hen (Blue/*). All babies in this case will be red. cocks will be (Red/Blue) while the hens will be (Red/*) Red Cock (Red/Blue) Mated to a Blue hen (blue/*). cocks will be whatever colour the cock passes on. since if he passes the red it will dominate the blue. and if he passes the blue then it will simply pair up with the blue from the hen. hens will be whatever colour the cock passes on since the hen will pass on no colour gene but instead the hen gene. ----- if you breed a check bird that happens to be (check/check) then all babies will be check. but a lot of checks end up being (check/bar) so when bred with a barred bird (bar/bar) then you end up with 50-50 check or bar. barred bird breed to another barred bird will produce all barred babies. (assuming you dont have barless in your loft) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symbro Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/b-rac/ this is a thread we have been discussing different genes: colours, patterns and modifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beautyhomer Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 It has always been my understanding that in order to get a silver (sometimes refered to as mealy or redbar) pigeon that you needed to cross a bluebar with a red check. Is this factual? does it matter which is the cock or hen and if using a bluebar hen will the young cocks always be either silver or red check. Thanks in advance. Ed Silver has nothing to do with the ash red gene that is present in mealies(red bar) and red checks.This confusion has come about by the incorrect usage of the term.I often hear of silver mealies which is an impossible combination of genes. A silver is nothing more than a dilute blue bar.A dilute mealy is a cream and a dilute brown is a khaki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 Am I right in saying that the ratio of silver hens is greater than silver cocks? If so why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symbro Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 Am I right in saying that the ratio of silver hens is greater than silver cocks? If so why is that? this is due to the way the dilute gene works. it only takes one dilute gene to show on hens but takes two to show on cocks. any cock that produces a dilute hen, carries dilute himself but does not show it because he only has one. however if you breed a dilute bird to that cock then you will see dilute hens and cocks. Quick explaination... if you are curious i could get more exact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symbro Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/b-rac/ this is a thread we have been discussing different genes: colours, patterns and modifiers. http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1165533555/ not sure how i got the wrong link... but this one should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Take a look here birdman55678 http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/Page1.html good site that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 This genetics thing is danged tough for me. Could anyone please tell me what I will have to breed together to produce what I call a silver, but guess its actually a dilute blue bar.. Thanks. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim.Farr Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Ed back when I had a red check cock I would get silver hens when I paired him to a blue bar hen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symbro Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 This genetics thing is danged tough for me. Could anyone please tell me what I will have to breed together to produce what I call a silver, but guess its actually a dilute blue bar.. Thanks. Ed do you have any birds that are yellow(cream) or silver? or do you have any birds that are producing yellows (creams) or silvers? silver - Dilute Blue "Silver" - Red Bar with a silvery neck yellow or cream - Dilute Red Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symbro Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Ed back when I had a red check cock I would get silver hens when I paired him to a blue bar hen. your cock had one dilute gene. you could not see it because cocks require two dilute genes inorder to show the colour change. however he was able to pass on this dilute gene. had you paired him up to a hen that was dilute, you would have gotten both cocks and hens showing dilute. your cocks genetics were Red/blue nondilute(wildtype)/dilute check/bar i know he was Red/blue because all hens get their colour gene from thier sire. He must have also been check/bar, because you paired him up to a bar and had bar babies. your blue hen genetics were- Blue/* Bar/Bar birdman55678 this might help you understand what you need for your dilute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 do you have any birds that are yellow(cream) or silver? or do you have any birds that are producing yellows (creams) or silvers? silver - Dilute Blue "Silver" - Red Bar with a silvery neck yellow or cream - Dilute Red Ash The majority my birds are either blue bar, blue check, or red check, I do have a few grizzles and I still have 4 recessive red meulemans left but they are spoken for and will soon be gone, in the blues there are a few that have white flights but not many.. Not sure if this helps or not. Looks like I may have to acquire a silver in order to breed more. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symbro Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 well look around you area for a silver or yellow. if you fail to find one. you can try eggbid.com or you get one from me. I can breed an extra one or two at the end of this breeding season. ps i assume the red trents you have are recessive red? (blood red all over body). quite often i see those with the dilute giving them a nice yellow/cream colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 your cock had one dilute gene. you could not see it because cocks require two dilute genes inorder to show the colour change. however he was able to pass on this dilute gene. had you paired him up to a hen that was dilute, you would have gotten both cocks and hens showing dilute. your cocks genetics were Red/blue nondilute(wildtype)/dilute check/bar i know he was Red/blue because all hens get their colour gene from thier sire. He must have also been check/bar, because you paired him up to a bar and had bar babies. your blue hen genetics were- Blue/* Bar/Bar birdman55678 this might help you understand what you need for your dilute. Ok now if I understand everything right here, if I breed a young RC cock that I got from the original pairing that didn't throw a silver, that bird should now be carrying both patterns and if I pair that RC cock to a blue bar hen then I will get some mealy colored hens and blue cocks. Now if I take a RC hen from that same original pairing and mate her up with a BB cock then I will get blue hens and mealy cocks. Hopefully I have this right and not went off the deep end again. I appreciate your patience with me on this. Thanks and I will await your reply. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman55678 Posted December 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 well look around you area for a silver or yellow. if you fail to find one. you can try eggbid.com or you get one from me. I can breed an extra one or two at the end of this breeding season. ps i assume the red trents you have are recessive red? (blood red all over body). quite often i see those with the dilute giving them a nice yellow/cream colour. The recessive reds I have are not trentons but are meulemans, none of by other birds have any of the meulemans mixed in with them. Everything I have bred has been bred in individual pens so I am sure on the parentage. I have not gotten any yellow or creme colors from any of them. Thanks. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symbro Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Ok now if I understand everything right here, if I breed a young RC cock that I got from the original pairing that didn't throw a silver, that bird should now be carrying both patterns and if I pair that RC cock to a blue bar hen then I will get some mealy colored hens and blue cocks. Now if I take a RC hen from that same original pairing and mate her up with a BB cock then I will get blue hens and mealy cocks. Hopefully I have this right and not went off the deep end again. I appreciate your patience with me on this. Thanks and I will await your reply. Ed here is a detailed break down of what you are saying. i think you will be able to understand it with no problem. however it took me awhile to figure this out so if you have any questions feel free to ask! Your red check cock - red/blue check/bar Your blue bar hen - blue/* bar/bar cock can pass on 4 combinations: 1)red/check 2)red/bar 3)blue/check or 4)blue/bar hen can pass on 2 cominations: 1)blue/bar or 2)*/bar so young can be 11) red/blue check/bar... a heterozygous red - heterozygous check - cock 12) red/* check/bar... a hemizgous red heterozygous check - hen 21) red/blue bar/bar.. a heterozgous red - homozgous bar - cock 22) red/* bar/bar... a hemizgous red - homozgous bar - hen 31) blue/blue check/bar... a homozgous blue - hetherozygous check - cock 32) blue/* check/bar... a hemizgous blue heterozygous check - hen 41) blue/blue bar/bar... a homozgous blue - homozgous bar - cock 42) blue/* bar/bar... a hemizgous blue - homozgous bar - hen homozygous; carrying two of the same genes heterozygous; carrying two different genes hemizygous; carrying one gene for attribute and one gene for hen the hen chromzome (*) carries no genes. two important types of genes that are affected are colour (red, blue, brown) and dilute gene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symbro Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Ed back when I had a red check cock I would get silver hens when I paired him to a blue bar hen. this cock carried the dilute gene but otherwise was genetically similiar to the cock i was just talking about. his red check cock: Red/Blue Nondilute(wildtype)/dilute Check/bar this bird can pass on eight possiblities; red nondilute check, red nondilute bar, red dilute check, red dilute bar, blue nondilute check, blue nondilute bar, blue dilute check, blue dilute bar, his baby silver hen off of this pair genetically was: blue/* dilute/* bar/bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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