wnr today

[Guest tom123]

im not defending anyone

i took a hammering like everyone else im stil 13 adrift now

all im saying is nearly all organisations who liberated their birds on sunday took a hammering not just the wnrfed

 

but before individuals  condem the race contrioller or convoyers with sarky remarks they need to look at the whole picture not just in wales but nationally thousands of birds are going missing every week and you aint in a position to piont the finger at individuals like it is being done at present its aproblem that no one has the ansewers too if they did pass it on

 

 

[Guest strapper]

i dont think tom has got anything wrong,he has his beliefs and if they are different to someone elses then they should be respected. thats his perogative.

i like tom and i think he has a great site .

i think we should all stop the bickering and join forces to make things better not more bitter(spelt right ) :)

[Guest strapper]

im not defending anyone

i took a hammering like everyone else im stil 13 adrift now

all im saying is nearly all organisations who liberated their birds on sunday took a hammering not just the wnrfed

 

but before individuals  condem the race contrioller or convoyers with sarky remarks they need to look at the whole picture not just in wales but nationally thousands of birds are going missing every week and you aint in a position to piont the finger at individuals like it is being done at present its aproblem that no one has the ansewers too if they did pass it on

 

 

i agree tom..race controllers aint the main problem,no one should be blamed untill a proper reason is found out.

 

[holmsidelofts]

Guys have a look at the pictures below. It shows all the feds we have crossed for the following races.

 

Swindon youngbirds 2.

 

Newbury 1 youngbirds.

 

Newbury 2 youngbirds.

 

I will upload the map from last week when i have worked out who liberated on what date.

 

I think the maps speak for them selves, this road is suicidal, its pot luck at if we hit something or not. As the weeks go on the chances of clashing gets worse as the feb in the north are getting further south.

Im not putting blame to anyone in particular but we are never gonna get away from all these feds with the route we currently take. A direct south route is the best option to avoid all these feds week in week out. Thats the reason for sunday libs, we know these feds are there but we still continue to fly the route.

 

jas.

 

 

[Guest tom123]

Well Tom you get it wrong then its wrong and when you get it right you are wrong,you have my sympathies but dont leave the site because i may be r.valley but you are a mine of information to your members and i enjoy your contributions

neil

 

no neil all im saying is is it only the wnr fed loosing birds ansewer no but read some of the past posts and see whats being wrote its the convoyers fault he never waterd the birds etc

how can someone inc myself accuse people for not doing there job without proof

how many men have been executed in the past then found to be innocent in the future thats what is happening here they are trying to piont a finger at individuals when they havent got the oppertuinity to defend themselves

like jb  says the fed should lookinto it but so should other organisations and comunicate together but we all know they wont

 

another issue is that so many organisations are liberating from different race poionts on different day and noone knows whos where

 

 

 

 

[holmsidelofts]

 

 

 

another issue is that so many organisations are liberating from different race poionts on different day and noone knows whos where

 

 

 

Tom with respect that aint difficult for all the big feds. I have been able to confirm lib times from all the racepoints on the above maps just by asking the question ' what time have you liberated'. In my opinion its up to the race controller to contact all the feds we are likely to clash with and ask the same question, if not a personal phone call, at least confirm it on libline. I know libline aint cheap but keeping racing pigeons isnt either. Its the race controllers responsibility to check all of this before he say go. the trouble is that there are so many feds liberating around us that its pot luck to if they have cleared. its all well and good knowing what time they liberate but we need to know more about how did they clear also.

Im sorry if i come across as really negative about this but im really passionate about this sport the same as you are and its not right between the 2 of us we have lost 25 birds in one race. I personally havent had one bird reported yet. My birds the same as yours have been extremely well trained, Mine are very healthy ( the microscope doesnt lie) and well motivated. The birds are of high quality, its not the birds fault, something has to be done.

 

jas.

 

[Guest tom123]

just telling you what i have gathered in the past 24hrs

 

birds liberated at 0745

birds split into 4 batches on liberation  with birds heading in the wrong direction towards london

birds seen in swindon beleieved to be ours at 10 05 but obviuoslly they werent they were possibly rv liberated at 09 45 im led to  believe

 

birds reported in bedfordshire  two in epsom itself and i had one in swindon tonite

 

i phoned terry has i always do not just this week for a natter and hes has bemused has to the rest into the outcome

has fanciers around here are reporting one or two missing and some a lot more im 13 down and im like the rest i want to know whats happened to mine

[holmsidelofts]

just telling you what i have gathered in the past 24hrs

 

birds liberated at 0745

birds split into 4 batches on liberation  with birds heading in the wrong direction towards london

birds seen in swindon beleieved to be ours at 10 05 but obviuoslly they werent they were possibly rv liberated at 09 45 im led to  believe

 

birds reported in bedfordshire  two in epsom itself and i had one in swindon tonite

 

i phoned terry has i always do not just this week for a natter and hes has bemused has to the rest into the outcome

has fanciers around here are reporting one or two missing and some a lot more im 13 down and im like the rest i want to know whats happened to mine

 

Thanks for the info tom.

 

 

[Guest waynemorris]

I just had one reported in Wrexham i was 4 missing out of 24 so maybe not as bad as some.  As for the race I dont think any Welsh Fed had a good race on Sunday obivously something has gone wrong and it would be maybe of some comfort if we could find out why.  But i also believe it is a failing of all Feds in the UK that information is not passed between them.  So wether you fly North, South, East or West these problems with clashing will arise and continue until we can get an efficent way of passing information between all the Feds on liberations.  So to just blame the WNR and the route we fly is being slightly shortsighted in my view. This year for losses for me has been quite bad, (last year I only lost 3 young birds from the 2nd Newbury through to Lillers) but everone makes mistakes from time to time and hopefully we will learn from this and move on.

 

Yours in the sport

Wayne

[Guest Owen]

Wayne

I admire your attempt to be positive and you are right, we must move on. But surely we can not move on in a way that accepts the sort of losses that we have been suffering.

Moving on for me will mean that we must have an investigation into the possible causes of Sunday's mess. Then we must put in place a system of race control that actually works. I believe that the information regarding liberation times and places exists so there can be no excuse for not checking properly.

And if we think that the East to West route is too difficult to manage, we must change to a route to one that we can manage.

One of the most important unanswered questions for me is, "What happened to make the birds physical condition deteriorate so badly".

It was'nt just mine that were in a bad state. Everyone I spoke to about the race commented on the poor condition of the birds. Some of my earlier birds were in a state of collapse. The later ones seemed better, so I put that down to the fact that they had probaby stopped for a drink somewhere.

Like a lot of others, I want to move on but not at the price of accepting that we will be abusing our livestock in the way we have just done. To be honest, I will not want to be involved with a sport that behaves like this towards the live creatures we depend on to give us pleasure. I find it unacceptable.    

[Guest waynemorris]

Owen

 

I can only comment about my own birds condition coming from the race and of the 20 home only 1 of them looked as if he had a really bad time the others were fine.  This is 2009 and as long as people talk to each other you can fly any route.  In my mind there may have been a little complacency due to the fact that we were liberating on a Sunday (which personally i want more of) and did not check up on the Feds that had held over from the Saturday

[Guest john the body]

i had 6 out of 12 up 2 15.00 hrs yesterday and not a pigeon since, just had 1 reported up in wrexham, and this fancier had 2 other whu rings in as well yesterday, and i just seen another fanicer had a pigeon in wrexham from yesterday so how did these birds get their if they didn,t clash in a north west wind

[pjc]

south road lib sat, north road lib sunday and any other route lib wednesday!

No Clashing!

[PIGEON_MAN]

i had 6 out of 12 up 2 15.00 hrs yesterday and not a pigeon since, just had 1 reported up in wrexham, and this fancier had 2 other whu rings in as well yesterday, and i just seen another fanicer had a pigeon in wrexham from yesterday so how did these birds get their if they didn,t clash in a north west wind

 

Were you given a north west wind at the liberation point as I,m pretty certain it was a south west wind and very gusty in places,I,m surprised no one as questioned the wind direction as a south west wind would surely be almost on their nose and probably push them up country a bit,perhaps thats why there are birds reported up Derby,Nottingham and 2 here near Worcester.

[holmsidelofts]

 

Were you given a north west wind at the liberation point as I,m pretty certain it was a south west wind and very gusty in places,I,m surprised no one as questioned the wind direction as a south west wind would surely be almost on their nose and probably push them up country a bit,perhaps thats why there are birds reported up Derby,Nottingham and 2 here near Worcester.

 

Yeah the wind would have taken then slightly of line but it wasnt that strong to taken up to derby, liverpool, wrexham etc. I still have 12 away and have not had one reported yet.

They clashed no doubt of that.

And it will only get worse for you guys going forward. More and more feds will cross us this week again. I know i wont be sending so good luck to you guys that do, If you have another weekend like we've had for the last couple most people will be wiped out again.

 

I feel really sorry for the birds. As owen said the state of the birds were disgusting when they returned, they were that dehydrated for me that they couldnt fly up onto the trap. Why is that? Not look after properly is my guess.

 

 

 

[Guest strapper]

i havent raced yet im only training....ill try for the comebacks like i did last year....ive had no sickness this year ,a fancier called lastnight and commented on how well my birds look...i told him that to admire them now...in a few weeks after racing most wont be here!

[Guest Owen]

When I read through this thread there is a lot of information and opinions. At least that is a start to finding out what people think and their reaction to Sunday's race.

To me there is one overriding set of facts. The birds took a long time to complete the journey, far longer than anticipated. When they did come they were spread out with very big gaps between them. More than half of my birds were staggering when they landed, and most of the Fanciers I have spoken to have said the same, without me prompting them. Only a small number came through on the next two days. The small number of birds reported have been at North Wales and Cheshire. ( I would appreciate more information here)

I have no idea what has caused this result but I know for certain that some lost very high percentages of their birds. And at this stage of the season most of these lost birds would have gained much experience both in training and in racing.

And lastly, a large number of Fanciers are seriously fed up with the fact that the Fed has consistantly produced very bad young bird races this year. Three of which have resulted in very high lossses.

Are these the facts? Have I got my version of the facts right? If anyone has anything factual to add, I would appreciate some help.

When I think I have got it all, I will communicate with The Fed Officials. And finally I will publish any response I get from them.  

[adam owen]

you are right tom we dnt have proof of what happend sunday to an exstent,but its slowley coming together.what we do have is proof those birds wernt watered,we have this as 95% of the fancys birds were dehiydrated FACT!!!!.2nd thing we have was the map off home sideloftes great bit of info that was ,may be know the people who love the east route will know see whats really going on , on a sat. in its true light

[Guest tom123]

exactlly!!!!!!

you havent got any proof or ideas like the rest of us what went wrong and we never will call it an act of nature or what ever you want

so you are in bed on sunday morning and know the birds wernt watered are you can assume maybe but you wernt on site so you cannot prove it so you shouldnt be accusing people once again

has for the maps i have liberated birds on a sat from swindon and was amazed by the number of batches crossing the m4 and that was ten yeas before the wnr turned south east so nothing has changed but has for going south or north has you are on a bout now

do a map of all the organisation flying south to north and north to south and either way if the route did change you will encounter federations flying down your throat so the final result wont change

 

secondly has ive already mention on numerous occations

we are not the only organisation to

a.lose pigeons on the weekend

b.not the only organisation to change its programme without revising the advertised  lib in th bhw to give notice to others

c.change from sat to sun

 

every organisation is trying to do its best for its own membership some have even cancelled their longest races because there aint enough birds to go there

 

so this problem is nationwide not just the wnr fed or welsh organisations

 

 

[PIGEON_MAN]

When I read through this thread there is a lot of information and opinions. At least that is a start to finding out what people think and their reaction to Sunday's race.

To me there is one overriding set of facts. The birds took a long time to complete the journey, far longer than anticipated. When they did come they were spread out with very big gaps between them. More than half of my birds were staggering when they landed, and most of the Fanciers I have spoken to have said the same, without me prompting them. Only a small number came through on the next two days. The small number of birds reported have been at North Wales and Cheshire. ( I would appreciate more information here)

I have no idea what has caused this result but I know for certain that some lost very high percentages of their birds. And at this stage of the season most of these lost birds would have gained much experience both in training and in racing.

And lastly, a large number of Fanciers are seriously fed up with the fact that the Fed has consistantly produced very bad young bird races this year. Three of which have resulted in very high lossses.

Are these the facts? Have I got my version of the facts right? If anyone has anything factual to add, I would appreciate some help.

When I think I have got it all, I will communicate with The Fed Officials. And finally I will publish any response I get from them.  

 

As I have posted before I have 2 here in MALVERN near Worcester and I believe there was a couple in Derby and Nottingham.

[adam owen]

how much proof u need when the birds come back in that state they wernt watered or tha fan wernt put on as iddy davies said may be the case

[Guest tom123]

 

how many assumtions are we going to have

 

come on now adam look at it realisticly you can look at it and have has many ideas has you want

but it aint going to change the out come no one knows why its happening

i wish i new i would write a book on it and sell it and make millions has every race controller and organisations would want it

 

lets cancell all our  racing now then for the rest of the season and see how many would want that

they would be screaming from the top to the bottom of the valley

[Guest strapper]

why dont we all put our heads together and find a solution to the losses and not bicker amongst ourselves...this will get us nowhere.

why dont we all get info from our perspective clubs and give the info to the fed.

1...how many losses overall in the club....in old and youngbirds so far.

2...how far a field have members had birds reported. in last weekends race

3...how many would prefer to keep the rest of the race programme as it is/or change to what races?

4...would you change route for next year and preferance...north/south/or stay as we are...maybe a vote in each club.

 

only by joining forces can a battle be won!

[Guest neil]

Dont be missled by birds being reported as they are individual instances and we have all lost birds off the loft or training from a few miles and they end up all over the shop-just got lost and flew on untill it got knackered.

It just turned out to be a poor morning,i kept 5 birds in loft and when let out when i opened up they just circled and then landed looking to come back in but last week i struggled to get them in before the birds turned up,had a gut feeling that my birds may be out of sorts and felt perhaps there was something wrong with them that i missed but all bar 3 arrived home after flying 4,5 or 6 hours none the worst only tired so no dash for a cure all it just makes me feel it was a poor day all round for flying.

neil

[Bugsy]

Adam

 

You really shouldn't be using other peoples names in publicising what they are supposed to have said, if they want to publicise then let them do it.

 

John B.