Guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 well said terry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hall Posted October 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Freedom's a two-way door, Terry, and brixmaid certainly has as much democratic right to point out the real hoops racers put their birds through as some here have to post the false ones they image he might. Surely no one who isn't ashamed of them minds being reminded of the realities of their fancies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doostalker Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Rick, if Brixsmaid had gone about this as I suggested in my last post, none of this would have been raised, and feathers would not have been ruffled (poor pun I know). Discretion is the better option sometimes. Personally, I think we have given this enough airing and we should agree to disagree, and get on with our respective hobbies. We don't need a verbal war between our two factions. Enjoy what you do, and look after yourself and your animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brixsmaid Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Doorstalker - I agree that perhaps the time is right to call a truce, I never intended to cause any offence with any of my comments and apologise if that is how they came across. All I was doing was pointing out the difficulties (and perhaps the misconceptions) I was experiencing in obtaining some cull stock birds and was simply responding to or perhaps allowed myself to "react to" the threads, I should know better! Anyway I close now and thank all those who participated in the thread, which ever side of the fence they happen to be on. Once again sorry if I have offended anyone, goodbye and regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hall Posted October 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Terry, I found brixsmaid's honest approach a refreshing change from the dissembling that so often passes for "discretion". Not always the most expedient approach, but honesty carries its own reward. So I'll be quite happy to "agree to disagree" with you. And add my thanks to all who responded honestly. Even the deep thinkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistifire Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Being that I am looking for a loft for pleasure not to race, I would much rather have the retired, culled birds in my loft because they dont need to race, I just like to see them fly around the house and I love to hear the sound of a flock's wings as they fly past. I agree with not giving them over for bait, I would rather have them live a happy life to their old age and give them what they deserve. They work so hard for the racers. They deserve to be cared for by someone that will apreciate their life. Also I am glad to hear you have found a way to train without harming the birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doostalker Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Mistifire, most racers I know agree with your post when you say, "I would rather have them live a happy life to their old age and give them what they deserve." And most racers certainly recognise what the birds do for them when racing, and would appreciate their life. I have three birds in my loft aged 15, 16 and 18. They will be there until they die. There are also some aged 10/11, and they simply live out their life happily messing around the loft with no pressure on them at all. I call it my "geriatric wing." You seem to have a bad impression of racers, but I hope that in time this may change. Like me, I hope you enjoy your birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy white Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 i know that rose is very keen, and does very well, in the distance races.and when she mentioned an 18 year old cock still filling his eggs, struck a cord whith me, is it me or my imagination, that good distance pigeons seem to have more longevity, than sprint pigeons, my friend had an exeptional distance hen, that lived to 21 [scot own book 2000 p 120 ] i have had birds live to 19 years, i often wonder if it has any thing to do with the constitution of the bird, which i think has. with due respect to distance or sprint,racing, i may well be wrong, but with distance birds, they have this in bred constitution. i may well be poking my finger in the fire here, but in my opinion, you can win sprint races with distance birds, but you cant win distance races with sprint birds,[ unless the conditions suit,] this is only my experience, and my opinion p.s my old meally scored 9 times at 5,to over 600 miles taking a good position at 9 years old, the same year he won the penrith race in the club approx 100 miles [ the only bird i never put a penny on]just wondered opinions on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistifire Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Doostalker, I dont think I have a bad impression of racers, I think it is an interesting hoby/sport and it would be fun to do. I also think you guys are doing a great job of changing the thought that pigeons are dirty and full of disease. I do have a bad impression on gun dog training though, I had a friend when I was younger whos neighbor trained bird dogs on his front lawn...let the dogs violently at the birds and it was not a good childhood memory. I am glad to hear there are some hunters that train without harming the birds. The only reasons I dont want to race just yet is because I really dont have much information on the subject, I dont like the thought of my birds not coming home after a race, and my neighbor behind me has pigeons and im not sure how that would effect my birds if I got a loft. I was just tring to say that I would rather have the birds come to me than be killed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 A certain 'old' gent retired from the sport two years ago, held a clearance sale of birds aged up to 7 years old. The remainder aged 8-19 are still with him, housed in a loft 'to live out their days'. One 'slight oversight' in this thread has been the problem losses of birds. In my case, two years hard running, have bred or been gifted birds to make up a team of around 30 youngsters. The difference in numbers at January 2004 and at end of season = +4; January 2005 and at end of season = = +1. Where's the need or scope for culls in those figures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hall Posted October 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Bruno, am I correct in understanding that you're losing nearly all of a 30 youngbird start each year? That would drive me to golf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Yes, Rick, around half young & half old bird team. There's a lot going wrong out there. > Making the effort to get to the bottom of it though and get things sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hall Posted October 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 I've followed the lost bird discussions with some interest, as I once kept a large loft of birds from a number of undistinguished sources for several years with next to no training flight losses. (I don't race but do fly them fair distances for my and their pleasure.) Now have a new loft, in a safer-from-prey-bird location, and initially stocked with floor birds of reputedly excellent racing blood that was brought on just as my others, yet suffered surprising, though not on your racing scale's, training flight losses. Some of it likely weather related but some a mystery... Perhaps just a fluke made more noticable by the relatively small scale I started this flock on. But we'll soon be seeing if different blood fares better in this new location. (Used to enjoy carrying birds on trips just to be released and allowed to stretch - and for the pleasure of finding them in the loft on my return. But I've become more cautious about distant releases than I'm happy with this go-round. Don't like having to worry over them.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Rick, just a note to clarify that the losses I posted are losses covering all the reasons: racing, training and unexplained (go out for normal exercise one day and just don't come back : hawks, wires?) etc. And in the normal course of things I need to keep each bird for at least 3 years. They're distance stock, and I don't think it is worth testing the bird before 2 years old, or before they and I are ready. This year my first with 2y olds, but I obviously wasn't ready as the birds didn't get the proper roadwork & inland races prior to the channel. Lost one @ 465 miles that should really have been kept back for next year as she suffered a hawk injury 4 weeks before the event. 'Had' to send and lost her before acknowledging that I just didn't have a scoobie about proper 500 mile race preparation. Stopped her other 3 sisters giving me 3 x 3 yo and a handful of 2 yo for next year. I've all winter for the likes of Rose & Jimmy White to pass on their tips (copied in triplicate ;D ) to get these birds properly prepared for 2006 Channel events. And of course, behind every 3 year old racer, there is a stock bird at least 4 year old so that's another 8 that takes 4/5 years to prove! In my case anyway, there is definitely nothing 'surplus'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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