Lofts

[darlo_flyer]

it's the garden loft for me i like the Convenience and saftey of the garden and our lass has'ent got far to go to feed and clean them out on a morning i also like Convenience of lights for when you come home from work later

[carl]

I think the back garden flyers must be the only ones to be able to use computers aswell,only three allotment flyers from all them votes.

[andy]

I USED TO DRIVE A 16 MILE ROUND TRIP TO LOOK AFTER MY PIGEONS. HAVE HAD THEM AT HOUSE FOR THE LAST SEVEN YEARS. WOULDNT HAVE IT ANY OYHER WAY NOW...

[Guest]

Crabapple

 

Just checked your web page, bloody hell fire it's Ed Dunn and Hyacinth is your friend Linda from Red rose Lofts.

 

Unfortunatley in The United Kingdom not all folks have a back yard big enough to support a Pigeon Loft, so their lofts are set on a large piece of land which they share with other flyers and pay rent for, usually to the local council.

 

 

 

[Guest]

Ed, I got an e-mail from a friend from Indoesida says don't know about his uncle still got pigeons  but he will ask uncle for me....will let you know as soon as possible is that ok with you? Ed.

[snowy]

BACK GARDEN for me & westy!

[Chatrace]

Ours Sits in the Middle of a 40 acre Yard

You can see it being built here: http://hometown.aol.com/chatrace2001/NewLoft.html

[crabappleloft]

  You are quite correct  Cemetary, It's very nice to have your loft right on your own property. I can't imagine having to travel to my loft like some folks in your country do.

 Is there any security at alotment lofts?  This is where you really have to love the birds and our great sport.

 

 Check out my site at   www.crabappleloft.com  

 

take care,

Ed  

[westy]

nice loft chat race

[carl]

  You are quite correct  Cemetary, It's very nice to have your loft right on your own property. I can't imagine having to travel to my loft like some folks in your country do.

 Is there any security at alotment lofts?  This is where you really have to love the birds and our great sport.

 

 Check out my site at   www.crabappleloft.com  

 

take care,

Ed  

 

 

Ed theres no security on our allotments but alot of the fanciers have big dogs me also.

I was broken into two weeks in a row,put a dog there and never had anymore hassle since.people tend to leave doors unlocked etc because if they want to be in they will be

and the harder it is for them to get in the more damage gets done.

 

[Guest]

Well speak of the devil ......  ;D

 

Ronald Shirley, BHW expert on Planning Law had an article published on page 65 of 16th December issue under strange heading : Stop Keeping Pigeons.

 

Apparently, to stop people keeping pigeons  is the intent of some local authorities in North Yorkshire (Up North Combine territory).

 

One very strange claim from one of these councils is its ruling 'you cannot let your pigeons fly over other neighbours property, and thereby cause a nuisance'.

 

If you relate that to Gez's queries in another thread a few weeks back, it seems to fly in the face of common sense and the public domain-ness of the open sky.

 

 

[Guest]

Bruno et al

 

I was very distressed to read your posting regarding the proposed pigeon Ordinances in North Yorkshire.

 

This is something Pigeon flyers are continually facing in The USA, the City of chicago banned pigeon keeping 2 years ago and it has cost the Combine a couple of hundred grand to fight the Council to reach a compromise, Phoenix Arizona were faced with the same problem earlier this year, but got the Ordinance shelved when people from all walks of the pigeon community attended the pub;lic hearing including the heavy weight boxer  Mike Tyson who is a Phoenix resident.  Pigeon keepers from all over the country contacted the mayor and every council man and woman by e-mail in support of the folks in Phoenix. I sent a letter to the Mayor explaining the Help a Beginner Programme and was asked to fly down and give evidence, which unfortunately I couldn't,  Flyers in several areas of Wisconsin are now fighting for their rights to keep pigeons.

 

If the UK flyers are going to be faced with the same problems as the guys and gals in the USA, it is time to act yesterday before the thin edge of the wedge becomes a very thick one.  What do the NEHU and RPRA propose to do about it and fight for the long time rights to keep pigeons.  How has come into being, does this arise from a neighbour dispute regading the pigeons, are there Animal rights activists serving on these councils, or has this come about since the over exaggerated media hype regading avian influenza.

 

[Guest]

The reason I posted the information was that it relates directly to an earlier post of mine in which I advised members that there was a Planning Law expert who regularly contributed articles to the BHW WHICH ARE DESIGNED TO HELP PIGEON FANCIERS GAIN PLANNING PERMISSION TO KEEP PIGEONS.

 

For those who don't get the BHW or missed the article, in the interests of informed comment, I have extracted it:

 

"This year I have dealt with two planning appeals, held as informal hearings in front of planning inspectors appointed by the secretary of state. The two appeals dealt with keeping pigeons. In one appeal where the fancier had kept pigeons for almost 10 years, the local authority issued an enforcement notice prohibiting the 'flying out of pigeons from the lofts'. The other appeal was for a new loft sited over a garage, following an earlier appeal. The intention of the Planning Authority was the same - stop keeping pigeons

 

As a general rule, the home owner is able to enjoy his or her own private residence. Article 8 of Human Rights Act makes it very clear that everyone has a right to respect his private and family life, his home.  Remember this when reading the following resume of the cases

 

It was very clear in dealing with the two North Yorkshire councils which despite being a  hotbed of pigeon racing, that their view was far from sympathetic and no encouragement was given to either fancier.

 

(1) Hambleton District Council. Fancier had been asked to apply for a certificate of lawfulness proving that the use made of the land (for pigeons) had been in excess of 10 years. Certificate refused - council unconvinced in continuous use for 10 years, despite fancier's evidence from neighbours etc that it had..  for 9 years 5-6 months... Ronald Shirley did not proceed because of expense, likelihood of failure and the fact that the loft was built outside the Permitted Development Rules.

 

The Inspectors report "the council made it clear that save for the keeping of pigeons,  the proposed loft complies with requirements ... nonetheless in compliance with government planning policy guidance note 1, which seeks to promote neighbourliness and fairness, the council claims the keeping of pigeons is harmful to the living conditions of the occupiers of the adjacent house (Shirley - in other words , loft's ok but you cannot let your pigeons fly over other neighbours property, and thereby creatwe a nuisance) The inspector pointed out in his decision that 'overflying of property by flocks of pigeons can make a disturbing whirring sound. What is more the random incidence of overflying means that neighbours cannot enjoy their garden without the fear of it suddenly and unexpectedly occurring. The inspector granted planning permission for the loft on condition he kept no more pigeons than as present, and 1st April to 30th Sep, pigeons exercised 0700-1000, and 1700 to sunset only, except racing & training.

 

(2) Leeds. Loft was built outside the Permitted Development Rules... in a Conservation area. Planning Permission granted for loft ... but specifically excluded the keeping of pigeons in it.

 

 

Ronald Shirley is a member of Synwell club in Gloucestershire. An architect in private practice, for over 30 years, he specialises in planning appeals and planning law.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Carl your reply to Ed "People tend to leave doors unlocked etc because if they want to be in they will be and the harder it is for them to get in the more damage gets done" has another side to it.  

 

(1) On the subject of leaving doors unlocked, Fife (Scotland, though we tend not to admit it too often   ;D  ) got some unwelcome publicity on TV News a few years back where lofts were being broken into and pigeons stolen. One of the points raised by Fife Police on finding that some lofts were left unlocked, was that lofts should be locked

 

(2) The two minute rule: good padlocks are supposed to be able to withstand attack and not fail for at least two minutes. Deterrent value is that the burglar doesn't like hassle or noise and making any noise scares them off as well as warning other folk that somethings afoot.

 

(3) The too much hassle rule : they're looking for easy entry. A strong padlock, an alarm system box (nuffink in it), a surveillance camera (nuffink in it), a working intruder light plus a growling dog recording, a big black dug, geese, etc, make them move on and look for easier targets.

 

 

 

[carl]

Yes bruno i totally agree things should be locked up,but our allotments are out the way,theres no electric so growling dog noises and security lights are out the window.

I did have all my loft locked up with big padlocks etc and what did they do,just simply kick the doors of there hinges,not forgetting lofts are mostly made from ply wood which is not that hard to break.All that was taken was my tools drills etc and caused a lot of damage.Once this happened they saw my loft as an easy target and this happened 2 weeks in a row,thats when i rescued an american buldog (charlie)and placed him at the lofts,my dog is just smaller than a bull mastiff and bigger than a boxer dog,and very loud.

 

no hassle since

[Guest]

On the allotments near where I live the Pigeon members have been told, that if they dont modernise and tidy up the gardens then the lofts will have to go, that didnt go down to well with the members, but I have to agree with Defra that they are in general a bit of an eyesore and need to be sorted. Another local club seems to have had some help from the council to sort theirs out, and had a metal security fence put up around the lofts. The trouble is a lot of people dont work and would find it hard to buy new lofts, so I think in the long-run there will be problems!!!

[Guest]

Just a thought on the theme Sbelbin raises. Judging by the posts, the current lot for fanciers on allotments seems awfy primitive. No running water, heating, lighting, security, amenity ... nowt. Small wonder they are open to vandalism and fall into disrepair.

 

I'm all for improvement. Wondered if Local Authority Councils would be willing to sponsor fully serviced, easily maintained allotment sites in areas specifically zoned for pigeons? Fits in with my view of socially-inclusive communities. Might help change public & council perceptions of racing pigeons, pigeon keeping and pigeon fanciers?

[Guest]

Well the club chairman quit after hearing this news, saying there are too many people trying to stop us from racing. It was DEFRA who came up to inspect the gardens and said they need sorting out. I dont know whether it was said to scare them into doing something about the state of the lofts, but it is about time they were sorted to give the area and pigeon racing a better name. I dont know if our club has involved the council but I know there was a rumour that they wanted rid of the lofts and gardens to put houses on the area.

[Guest ben]

If only someone got the paperwork sorted out properly,i see no reason why the lottery would not give money to people who could`nt afford to upgrade their lofts,i know for fact some club in england got the paperwork sorted right and the lottery paid fo r NEW t3`s for every member..shame Peter Bryant can`t get his act together..IF the FA who are Rolling in money,can get£110 million charity money from the lottery to help build Wembley..why not us.

[Guest]

Shelbin

 

There was a similar situation with the allotments in Ryhope, Sunderland several years ago, the flyers enrolled they help of the Local Member of Parliament and the lofts were saved, if my memory sserves me correctly one of the crees had been there for generations and eventually it was listed (I think) a Grade 2 listed building.

 

Perhaps you should get in touch with someone from The Rhyhope fling Club who may be able to put you on the right tract to keep your allotments.

 

If my memory serves me correctly (again) a lot of these allotments in mining areas were given my the Colliery owners early in the 1900's so that the pitmen had some open space for outdoor recreation after working long hours at the pit face.  Even though coal mining is a thing of the past, the land is still used as out door recreation and not a spot for some spec builder to take away from them.

 

Maybe a good old fashioned "Tidy up" and coat of paint would work wonders

 

 

Just my opinion

 

[Guest]

Yes some of them do just need a good paint, but there are a few that really need knocking down and replacing, but the trouble is the ones that need replacing are owned by people who dont work and cant afford to replace them. They have said that if they have to replace them they will pack in, so unless the council will help them out with funding I think they will just leave the sport. One of the big problems is the surrounding gardens have been left and are overgrown with weeds/brambles and it looks a bit like a waste land which has been attracting a lot of rats. Im glad I got away from it all and put new lofts up at home LOL.

[schouwman71]

i like the back garden but i have lost many a youngbird race with youngsters dropping on the house roof because my loft is near to the house and sometimes would have topped the combine but i suppose you have to take good with the bad, i also like the allotment as i still have one and i am thinking of flying the youngsters down there this year,it does get lonely in the garden when rest of the fanciers are having a laugh down the allotments.plus i like to flag the old birds to get them in tip top condition,i carnt do that in the garden.

[kaybee]

shelbin, if ur in a past mining area try applying to the Coalfields Regeneration Fund

[golborne-lad]

I race my pigeons to lofts situated on an allotment, overlooking a farm and therefore it is good on race days to see batches of pigeons go past and if i am lucky, mine will break from the batch and i notice them early coming in to land.(This is not usually the case!!)

The pigeons i generally see are the amal and club winner's birds but unfortunatly my birds are always lagging behind.  ??)

Ah well keep trying next season.

I will lose my novice tag one of these day's - I hope!!

 

[Guest]

Well the club chairman quit after hearing this news, saying there are too many people trying to stop us from racing. It was DEFRA who came up to inspect the gardens and said they need sorting out.

 

If DEFRA were involved, I fear it is more than a cut the grass and paint the loft thing. Sometimes we can be too quick to blame 'interference' from outsiders; if these are the true facts, then its the bloody people on the allotment that have got themselves into the sh** and dragged the rest of us in with them. This type of attention is unwelcome and we all risk being tagged as midden heaps because of the crass actions of the few.