Losses?

[Merlin]

If it does or when it does,whichever,it is there courtesy of fanciers with similar lines of thought to yours,Nature decrees its survival of the fittest,those who use chemicals to prop up their birds health,are in direct conflict with this,only for a time,she will mutate it,and it will be something else in 5 or 10 years time.

[jimmy white]

 

There was no good old days chriss in the "bad old days" pigeons would die without hope from cocci then somebody discovered that the sulpha drugs had cocci bang to right and pigeon fanciers were "over the moon" (well its near the start of the football season).

 

You have to be old like  "me" but even then some people were against treatment, but now who in their right mind would not protect their young birds against cocci?

 

Luddites - only Luddites would not take care of the birds they love!

 

with due respect me, in my opinion , it was the" good old days "we kept less birds , kept lofts dry and clean [easy with just a few] coccidiosis reared its ugly head mostly in dirty or damp lofts where droppings lay damp for more than 24 hours and the cocci oocysts would thrive on this , my father used to even dig all round the lofts to keep it clean and give minerals from the upturned earth [mother asked him to plant the tatties at the same time ;D ;D], as you will well know all birds will carry cocci, its just when the level of oocysts[ or eggs ] go higher ,the trouble begins ,  usually with  poor management, when you got the odd one showing signs of high cocci , they were usualy supressed ,and were usually the weaker ones anyway , same with worms , canker etc they will all carry it , but any pigeon showing signs of these, were usualy supressed, therefore their immune system was improving and not weakening  :-/ :-/ :-/

[me]

Back in 'the good old days' in the 1960 and 70's half the the illnesses that are common today were unknown then. No paratyphoid, no paramyxo, no YBS etc. The worst that you had to contend with then were canker, cocci and worms, and from memory, there was no preventative treatment given for those - none that I can remember reading in the many loft reports in the pigeon press..

 

I think this is backed-up by a comment from Tony Cowan in the vet David Parson's DVD attributed to DEFRA: "UK fanciers used to have wonderful, healthy birds, until they started importing from Belgium..." With the birds came the 'methods' followed closely by the diseases.

 

 

It was "The Good Doctors" fault then Bruno Lad "Le Fynen" (SPELLING) Crap you have to trust "me" as far as the doos are concerned I know more than you do the sixties were a case of "heads off". Mary Queen of Scots stood a better chance of survival you guys don't know what you are talking about. Treat your birds when they need it and love them I have never owned either a bird useless at racing or wild and good at racing that did'nt want to be loved. Love them and look after them!

 

 

[Guest IB]

yes but the problem is the carrier of para might never get sick and shows signs of the disese so u could cull all around u and the carrier stiil be in your loft just a point

 

The point I was making was that if your hygeine is spot-on, and you are faced with repeated problems with paratyphoid in your loft, and you have not culled-out, then the source is likely to be there in your loft in the form of an unknown carrier, rather than from any outside influence.

[me]

 

I go along with that last bit

 

 

Are you sure Rose? Most of the top English fanciers(AND SCOTTISH)  in the old days bought their best stock from Europe!

 

[Merlin]

Me

A question for you

                         How often have you seen one of your good birds ill.

[Merlin]

J A M

Well at that stage,I would call in a vet and have them tested.

[just ask me]

yes but merlin we are no longer in nature darkness ststem widdow hood i would agree that the misuse of drugs caused a lot of this but are our birds really natural any more we have winter breeding too  the stress of racing now im not saying u put baytill into the water incase they have something or any other drug for that matter but there are times when drugs like this have to be used  like id imagine there was no area in ireland england scotland wales that did not get by young bird sickness this year even its rampant and with para a lot of the time the pigeon that is the carrier could be in your loft for years and u will never no its even there

[just ask me]

 

The point I was making was that if your hygeine is spot-on, and you are faced with repeated problems with paratyphoid in your loft, and you have not culled-out, then the source is likely to be there in your loft in the form of an unknown carrier, rather than from any outside influence.

 

would agree with u tottaly  was trying to say that too just got mixed up a it even have it in above post lol

[jimmy white]

have to agree with "me" here on most points , imagine sitting in the loft for a few hours talking and playing with the birds , when all birds had a name [a knickname ;D] and not just numbers , these birds new you , had confidence in you [or me ;D] dont see anyone doing that much nowadays  [feared of the yellow van comming ;D ;D ;D]

[me]

Me

A question for you

                         How often have you seen one of your good birds ill.

 

When my best birds are older and are in need of a bit of help I will readily admit I would do anything to help these birds. The birds I am talking about "timed" "me" in on numerous nights from France and I know they will still breed  "me" winnersx sons or daughters (especially daughters protect ("the hen that lays the golden egg")

 

 

[jimmy white]

 

 

Are you sure Rose? Most of the top English fanciers(AND SCOTTISH)  in the old days bought their best stock from Europe!

 

the great dr, anderson did this ,,many years ago [when i was just a boy ;D ;D ;D]

[Guest bigda]

you can tell a bird that has paratyphoid or carrier

[Guest IB]

 

It was "The Good Doctors" fault then Bruno Lad "Le Fynen" (SPELLING) Crap you have to trust "me" as far as the doos are concerned I know more than you do the sixties were a case of "heads off". Mary Queen of Scots stood a better chance of survival you guys don't know what you are talking about. Treat your birds when they need it and love them I have never owned either a bird useless at racing or wild and good at racing that did'nt want to be loved. Love them and look after them!

 

 

Yes, it was a case of 'fresh air in the neck' as Cowan & Parson's so succinctly put it. The good Dr Parson's also agreed with Cowan that there should be more use of that philosophy today. The good company wot makes Baytril also agree with it: for paratyphoid, they are quite blunt about it, 'don't give them Baytril, cull them'; and they also say its definitely not to be used as a preventative.

 

The first Dr I remember from that time was Dr Leon Whitney. Reading his book 'Keep yours pigeons flying' again last winter, I came across the bit on Canker, and the article on the experiments and the discovery of different strains, some more lethal than others? The deadly Barns Jones Strain? Written in 1950, it shows far more was known about natural immunisation against Canker and Cocci, and the immune system, than is known today ... although to be fair, Parsons and Gordon Chalmers promote 'background levels' and Gordon Chalmers has incorporated those early experiments in his reference works for the Fancy..

[just ask me]

 

the great dr, anderson did this ,,many years ago [when i was just a boy ;D ;D ;D]

 

dont they still buy from belguim holland i would say most feds in sprint races are tooped by birds that came from begium hollad and so on and even distance birds even brian sheppards bird was halk jos thone wasent it

[just ask me]

you can tell a bird that has paratyphoid or carrier

 

how it b new to me

[me]

have to agree with "me" here on most points , imagine sitting in the loft for a few hours talking and playing with the birds , when all birds had a name [a knickname ;D] and not just numbers , these birds new you , had confidence in you [or me ;D] dont see anyone doing that much nowadays  [feared of the yellow van comming ;D ;D ;D]

 

You have nailed it spot on Jimmy - "ME" would come home from work in the winter and hand feed the birds at night till they were as compliant as a collie pup and what rewards I reaped hard work but great rewards in the summer! Love your birds and look after them they will reward you!

 

 

[jimmy white]

you can tell a bird that has paratyphoid or carrier

 

no you cant,,,,,this is possibly the worst blight of pigeons , the unseen carrier,, thats why its very important when starting up , to get your birds from a long line of healthy birds , from a fancier who has won for many years [you dont win with ailing birds] a fancier whos management is spot on and whose pigeons have a high constitution and a high immune system ,,,,,hard to get that nowadays

[jimmy white]

 

Well i can think of few that havent but then i have only really had an interest in distance birds and in the old days there were plenty of good english and scottish stock birds without going to europe  

 

have to agree with rose, allthough this was done years ago it was most certainly not done to the extent it is now,, more and more rejects are being imported for cash from the "mugs" in the uk

[just ask me]

 

no you cant,,,,,this is possibly the worst blight of pigeons , the unseen carrier,, thats why its very important when starting up , to get your birds from a long line of healthy birds , from a fancier who has won for many years [you dont win with ailing birds] a fancier whos management is spot on and whose pigeons have a high constitution and a high immune system ,,,,,hard to get that nowadays

 

he could have a answer jimmy u never know but for some reason we will be waiting lol lol lol

[jimmy white]

If it does or when it does,whichever,it is there courtesy of fanciers with similar lines of thought to yours,Nature decrees its survival of the fittest,those who use chemicals to prop up their birds health,are in direct conflict with this,only for a time,she will mutate it,and it will be something else in 5 or 10 years time.

 

very good point indeed ,, thats exactly whats happening today

[Guest bigda]

 

how it b new to me

 

if you look at your birds flying and you notice one or two birds

loose formation regularly  with that i mean tum ell with one wing  not as young birds do  its  like a wing beat lapse they are carriers

also if you can get your stock out you will see the same thing

stock prisoners tell there own story young die in the nest at an early age and one or both parents  have not got a lot of concentration when sitting on young at night and usually flatten the squab :'( :'( :-/ ;D

[me]

 

Yes, it was a case of 'fresh air in the neck' as Cowan & Parson's so succinctly put it. The good Dr Parson's also agreed with Cowan that there should be more use of that philosophy today. The good company wot makes Baytril also agree with it: for paratyphoid, they are quite blunt about it, 'don't give them Baytril, cull them'; and they also say its definitely not to be used as a preventative.

 

The first Dr I remember from that time was Dr Leon Whitney. Reading his book 'Keep yours pigeons flying' again last winter, I came across the bit on Canker, and the article on the experiments and the discovery of different strains, some more lethal than others? The deadly Barns Jones Strain? Written in 1950, it shows far more was known about natural immunisation against Canker and Cocci, and the immune system, than is known today ... although to be fair, Parsons and Gordon Chalmers promote 'background levels' and Gordon Chalmers has incorporated those early experiments in his reference works for the Fancy..

 

 

I actually discussed pigeon problems  with Leon and he advised "me" to remember that "malucidin" (spelling") was a great way of sterilising the blood and helps attacks from cocci and e-coli got a few letters from him I will try and find them! The important thing to remember is we should all be trying to keep "our birds healthy"

 

[Guest IB]

 

 

Are you sure Rose? Most of the top English fanciers(AND SCOTTISH)  in the old days bought their best stock from Europe!

 

Maybe comparing Apples & Pears here. In 'the old days' , up until 1960's, fanciers here and on mainland Europe didn't medicate. The period Cowan was talking about was mid-70's onwards.

[just ask me]

just a quick question bit off the point i know but would the birds of years ago have a hope of keeping into the birds of today i dont think so even if the methods of today was used on them