General advice on medication

[sammy]

When your computer is repaired I hope they install spell check on it for you Sammy so everybody can understand you.      

so says the kid from mensa

[MsPigeon]

Gosh! I didn't know ANYONE needed to be defended from my opinion! I thought this was a discussion, not a right or wrong or only one-way works. I agree with Chrissy in that a well thought out health program is necessary these days to compete with the same birds the whole season race after race and to combat loses. It’s just my opinion… That can be herbal or what ever but my program includes meds. I have found from my experience and the use of my microscope and lots of reading that my program requires meds. Also from my experience in our club/combine/ concourse, I know the flyers that insist that meds are not necessary are the ones that lose 90% of their team, sometimes in one race. And the flyers at the top of the sheet week after week, flying the same birds, have a health program that includes meds. These are veteran flyers with many years of experience but they just stick to their old ways and methods, which do not include meds. We all know that nothing stays the same, the advances in technology clearly is an area that we bulk at change, for example E clocks, and computers.

My health program for me, my pigeons, for my area, for my loft style, for my handleing and training methods require meds. For instance worming, some flyers never worm, they say their pigeons do not have them. But mine do, my microscope proves it as well as the worms they pass after worming. Maybe it’s because my lofts have sand floors or because my pigeons are allowed time out doors and often land a pick. I clean regular and torch the sand to disinfect. But I pretty much know from observation and subtle symptoms, even without the microscope, when they need worming and it's pretty much on a schedule. Also we all know that cocci and canker are always present. When the stress of rearing and racing is added my birds show subtle signs, which affects their form and racing. I try to head things off with pro-biotics, supplements, garlic and herbs, but it seems at a pretty regular interval they need some help to knock the cocci and canker back down to a healthy level. So I have fit these treatments into a schedule based on my experience with my birds.

Respiratory treatments are a relatively new addition to my health program. It came into my loft one year with YB's from another flyer and it too rears up on occasion when birds are under stress and shows subtle symptoms which I also ward off with meds. I always switch meds from one year to the next to hopefully keep resistance from developing. I agree, it is NOT cheap, but what hobby or pet is cheap. I also do not have a bird vet anywhere near so I do the best I can with my microscope and books and LOTS of observation, watching their droppings and their behavior.

So my health program includes worming and treating for cocci, canker, and resp. before breeding season and before racing season. YB’s are wormed when moved to YB loft and watched very closely, if I see signs of adeno virus (YB sickness) then they will get medicated w/5 in 1 to ward off secondary infections, bleach, in their water, and then probiotics. If they show signs of resp. and it’s just a bird or two they are separated, if it’s 10 or more they are all treated. Normally they get probiotics w/vitamins twice a week, and vitamin/mineral supplement twice a week, these are added to their feed coated with wheat germ oil. They have fresh garlic in water always. During the race season they get 2-3 days of meds starting day after return from race, then probiotics and then vit/min supplements before going to the next race. One year I use 5 in 1 as the meds and the off year I use individual treatments with different active ingredients from the 5 in 1, for cocci, canker, and resp. One week they will be treated for cocci, the next canker, the next resp., and the next worming (w/Ivomec). So…there ya have… That’s my story and I’m sticking to it…

Carol  

 

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Lennut Tar: I agree with you on Tammy_1 'attack' on Sammy.

 

Tammy_1 : 'Attack' what Sammy has to say on medication rather than how he says it, and supply proof supporting your own view of things.

 

Chrissy & MsPigeon: Your stance appears to be (1) you need to medicate pigeons to win with them. (2) People who don't medicate don't win and (3) non-medicated pigeons spread disease in the basket.  

 

You have not supplied proof supporting any of these views, and you avoid the main issue - that this is not really just about pigeons but more a human and animal health issue. Most health professionals have probably never owned a pigeon far less obtained results with one, but that does not mean that their knowledge of their subject is inferior to your own - they know what they are talking about and their knowledge is light years ahead of your own, because neither one of you have offered any evidence to support one word of what you advocate is in the best interests of the pigeon or the owner. Another term for it is 'win at all costs' and it is a completely irresponsible way to behave, and worse still, encourages new starts to believe and behave the same way.

 

I'll break the post now and make 2 fresh posts with 'my' evidence. Kindly do the members on here a service by reading and commenting on what the professionals say about the irresponsible use of antimicrobials, rather than attack people's performances, only one person can win 1st prize, so stands to reason there's more losers than winners every week, and some weeks you must figure amongst the losers too..

 

  

 

What do you want me to do Bruno, just copy page after page off the internet and then paste it the same as you continue to do and have done for months, what have you won with your racing pigeons over the last few years so we can benefit from your experiences and then we can judge if what you do helps .

[frank-123]

got to agree after talking to some of the best flyer's in this country at the blackpool show  keep your birds healthy use a vet or a microscope but keep canker,cocci and worms at bay then you are half way there

 

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Lennut Tar: I agree with you on Tammy_1 'attack' on Sammy.

 

Tammy_1 : 'Attack' what Sammy has to say on medication rather than how he says it, and supply proof supporting your own view of things.

Chrissy & MsPigeon: Your stance appears to be (1) you need to medicate pigeons to win with them. (2) People who don't medicate don't win and (3) non-medicated pigeons spread disease in the basket.  

 

You have not supplied proof supporting any of these views, and you avoid the main issue - that this is not really just about pigeons but more a human and animal health issue. Most health professionals have probably never owned a pigeon far less obtained results with one, but that does not mean that their knowledge of their subject is inferior to your own - they know what they are talking about and their knowledge is light years ahead of your own, because neither one of you have offered any evidence to support one word of what you advocate is in the best interests of the pigeon or the owner. Another term for it is 'win at all costs' and it is a completely irresponsible way to behave, and worse still, encourages new starts to believe and behave the same way.

 

I'll break the post now and make 2 fresh posts with 'my' evidence. Kindly do the members on here a service by reading and commenting on what the professionals say about the irresponsible use of antimicrobials, rather than attack people's performances, only one person can win 1st prize, so stands to reason there's more losers than winners every week, and some weeks you must figure amongst the losers too..

 

  

 

Bruno if you want proof all you have to see is the pile of winning cards from club and fed, plenty of trophies with my name on them, can you provide the same kind of proof as to your system working

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Gosh! I didn't know ANYONE needed to be defended from my opinion! I thought this was a discussion, not a right or wrong or only one-way works. I agree with Chrissy in that a well thought out health program is necessary these days to compete with the same birds the whole season race after race and to combat loses. It’s just my opinion… That can be herbal or what ever but my program includes meds. I have found from my experience and the use of my microscope and lots of reading that my program requires meds. Also from my experience in our club/combine/ concourse, I know the flyers that insist that meds are not necessary are the ones that lose 90% of their team, sometimes in one race. And the flyers at the top of the sheet week after week, flying the same birds, have a health program that includes meds. These are veteran flyers with many years of experience but they just stick to their old ways and methods, which do not include meds. We all know that nothing stays the same, the advances in technology clearly is an area that we bulk at change, for example E clocks, and computers.

My health program for me, my pigeons, for my area, for my loft style, for my handleing and training methods require meds. For instance worming, some flyers never worm, they say their pigeons do not have them. But mine do, my microscope proves it as well as the worms they pass after worming. Maybe it’s because my lofts have sand floors or because my pigeons are allowed time out doors and often land a pick. I clean regular and torch the sand to disinfect. But I pretty much know from observation and subtle symptoms, even without the microscope, when they need worming and it's pretty much on a schedule. Also we all know that cocci and canker are always present. When the stress of rearing and racing is added my birds show subtle signs, which affects their form and racing. I try to head things off with pro-biotics, supplements, garlic and herbs, but it seems at a pretty regular interval they need some help to knock the cocci and canker back down to a healthy level. So I have fit these treatments into a schedule based on my experience with my birds.

Respiratory treatments are a relatively new addition to my health program. It came into my loft one year with YB's from another flyer and it too rears up on occasion when birds are under stress and shows subtle symptoms which I also ward off with meds. I always switch meds from one year to the next to hopefully keep resistance from developing. I agree, it is NOT cheap, but what hobby or pet is cheap. I also do not have a bird vet anywhere near so I do the best I can with my microscope and books and LOTS of observation, watching their droppings and their behavior.

So my health program includes worming and treating for cocci, canker, and resp. before breeding season and before racing season. YB’s are wormed when moved to YB loft and watched very closely, if I see signs of adeno virus (YB sickness) then they will get medicated w/5 in 1 to ward off secondary infections, bleach, in their water, and then probiotics. If they show signs of resp. and it’s just a bird or two they are separated, if it’s 10 or more they are all treated. Normally they get probiotics w/vitamins twice a week, and vitamin/mineral supplement twice a week, these are added to their feed coated with wheat germ oil. They have fresh garlic in water always. During the race season they get 2-3 days of meds starting day after return from race, then probiotics and then vit/min supplements before going to the next race. One year I use 5 in 1 as the meds and the off year I use individual treatments with different active ingredients from the 5 in 1, for cocci, canker, and resp. One week they will be treated for cocci, the next canker, the next resp., and the next worming (w/Ivomec). So…there ya have… That’s my story and I’m sticking to it…

Carol  

 

Spot on here and agree 100% with the red highlighted part of your quote