General advice on medication

[Guest]

Can antone advise if Clindamycin can adversely effect the the birds moulting

 

any medication can(dont mean they will) affect most things,but if ur treating for summut use it....otherwise wots the point in aquiring it?

i use medication and to be honest only irressponsible fanciers dont use them these days.(only my opinion)meaning that un medicated birds will infect other fanciers birds in the basket.

im not saying go overboard with them just use them to a certain affect.

its surprising how many fanciers slam antibiotics but soon as they get a cough they rush to the chemists and docs for summut.

there is a lot of antibiotics around and choosing the best/right ones can be a strain,ive got a good supplyer who gets me the correct medication and i sparringly use them.

dont go out and buy everything(medication) u read in the bhw,go to someone who knows about these things and get advice from him/her....paul.

[sammy]

i use medication and to be honest only irressponsible fanciers dont use them these days ,AND I DONT USE IT SO ,YOU CALLING ME IRRESPONSIBLE AND THAT I DONT KNOW WHAT AM DOING ,YOUR THE ONE THATS IREESPONSIBLE GIVING OUT ADVICE LIKE THIS ,MY PIGEONS DONT GET MEDICATION OF ANY SORT NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL NATURE ALLOWED THEM TO HAVE AN IMMUNE SYSTEM TO TAKE CARE OF THIS AND PEOPLE WITH YOUR IRRISPONSIBLE ATTITIUDE HAVE WEAKENED IT ,AND TO SAY THAT UNTREATED PIGEONS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SPREADING DISEASE YOU WANT TO READ UP A BIT MORE ON HOW PIGEONS CAONTACT DISEASES  

[Guest]

I never advise on antibiotic use - I reckon that is best left to the vet.

 

I am also amazed at the number of off-the-cuff enquiries on how to use them, so I reckon in most of these enquiries the antibiotics are not being used professionally, or ethically.

 

I've put in a link to a short video which I hope underlines my meaning of professional and ethical. Before administering any antibiotic you need to know what you are dealing with and what antibiotic it responds to. In this video 7 antibiotics are on test on a bacteria culture, only 3 have the desired effect:-

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4844937732458623330&q=antibiogram+video&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Guest]

 

any medication can(dont mean they will) affect most things,but if ur treating for summut use it....otherwise wots the point in aquiring it?

i use medication and to be honest only irressponsible fanciers dont use them these days.(only my opinion)meaning that un medicated birds will infect other fanciers birds in the basket.

im not saying go overboard with them just use them to a certain affect.

its surprising how many fanciers slam antibiotics but soon as they get a cough they rush to the chemists and docs for summut.

there is a lot of antibiotics around and choosing the best/right ones can be a strain,ive got a good supplyer who gets me the correct medication and i sparringly use them.

dont go out and buy everything(medication) u read in the bhw,go to someone who knows about these things and get advice from him/her....paul.

 

Agree 100% with this,an annual well thought out medication programme is vital.

[Guest]

i use medication and to be honest only irressponsible fanciers dont use them these days ,AND I DONT USE IT SO ,YOU CALLING ME IRRESPONSIBLE AND THAT I DONT KNOW WHAT AM DOING ,YOUR THE ONE THATS IREESPONSIBLE GIVING OUT ADVICE LIKE THIS ,MY PIGEONS DONT GET MEDICATION OF ANY SORT NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL NATURE ALLOWED THEM TO HAVE AN IMMUNE SYSTEM TO TAKE CARE OF THIS AND PEOPLE WITH YOUR IRRISPONSIBLE ATTITIUDE HAVE WEAKENED IT ,AND TO SAY THAT UNTREATED PIGEONS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SPREADING DISEASE YOU WANT TO READ UP A BIT MORE ON HOW PIGEONS CAONTACT DISEASES  

 

sammy i didnt say that ur pigeons spread diseases or that any body elses did,wot i said was that if birds that may be ill are left to natural sources to try to cure them ,then put in the basket ,then this will possibly give birds summut,

a good imune system WONT stop pigeons get diseases!!  a good imune system goes a bit to stop them..but has never or will never stop birds having diseases....just protect them to an extent.

i think its u that needs to read up upon this, i know that birds that are treated all the time will be weakened(thats if they are pounded with antibiotics all the time) but if u read exactly wot i said, was that i sparringly use antibiotics,ru trying to tell me that ur birds have never had canker.cocci?yb sickness or any other diseases like everyone else has had at one time ...amongst others.

antibotics weaken imunity but if used correctly, and at the right times and not when u feel like it ,wont harm the birds as ur statement about the bin suggests.

i spose all the vets in the world have less knowledge then urself ?.

any imunity has to have a knowledge of a disease to combat it!..thus the reason that the flu jab is given each year to humans.

the injection each year we must by law give to our birds has the disease its given to protect against.

the birds imunity then fights this little couple of diseased cells this injection gives and learns to fight this next time it comes around.

the only time antibiotics will weaken the birds defences to a damaging state will be over dosing and using them recklessly.

once again..i state that used correctly any antibiotics are safe..used incorrectly then its a recipe for destruction in the birds make up.

 

if u read the statement i put, it states that i said dont go out and buy all the medication u see in the bhw..i was meaning about damaging ur birds by using everything.and i also said that to go out and ask someone who knows about these things...as i see it ...we must agree to disagree..and as its a free world we have the option to have our own opinion which we both have..

 

[sammy]

PAUL IRRESPONSIBLE FANCIERS THATS WHAT YI SAID ,I DONT USE ANTIBIOTICS ON ME PIGEONS SO YOU ARE CALLING ME IRRESPONSIBLE ,HAD PIGEONS ALL MY LIFE FATHER HAD THEM AND HIS FATHER HAD AND NEVER EVER NEED ED TO USE ANTIBIOTICS THATS HOW ALL THIS YBS AND WHAT NOT STARTED IN THE FIRST [PLACE BY IRRESPONSIBLE FANCIERS USING SOMETHING THEY AINT GOT A CLUE ABOUT AND TO ADVICE SOMEONE ON THEIR USE IS NOT VERY CLEVER IS IT ESPECIALLY WHEN YI DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT ITS ISES ARE FOR ,WOULD IT NOT BE BETTER TO ADVICE HIM TO SEEK OUT A GOOD VETENAIRIAN WHO WOULD OFFER THE PROPER TREATMENT AND ADVICE OF ITS USE AND MAYBE SOMETHING BETTER INSTEAD OF TREATING BLIND AND MAKINNG MATTERS WORSE THAN WHAT THEY ARE ,AND NO MY YB NEVER EVER CONTACT YBS AND YES I HAVE HAD PIGEONS GOING LIGHT ,BUT ONE THING I AM SURE OFF AND THAT IS THE OLD WAYS ARE THE BEST WAYS ASK ANY FARMER THAT  

[Guest]

Two quotes which I hope will put things into some perspective:

 

(1) David Parsons / Tony Cowan 'Prevention is better than Cure' CD:

 

In Part 1, Tony Cowan talks about 'fresh air in the neck' being an old cure and a  good one - David Parsons agrees - and Tony goes on to relate a quote from DEFRA: 'British fanciers once had marvellous healthy pigeons until you started importing birds from abroad [belgium] together with their 'course of treatments' ....  

 

Tony goes on to say that he adopted one 'course of treatment' where there was not one day when something was not in the drinker, and in 1979/80 he lost the lot to Paratyphoid, the 'treatments' totally destroyed his birds' immune system.

 

 

(2) Dr Anderson, writing in 1947, in his book p65, "I remember many years ago, in company with a group of good fanciers, visiting a loft abroad. We were shown about 20 pigeons in various stages of disease, and I was asked for my advice on certain medical aspects of some of the individual cases. It was curt indeed and it annoyed my friend somewhat: "Scrap the lot".

 

 

The implications of this, especially coming as it does from DEFRA, leads me to believe we are no longer seen to have marvellous healthy pigeons,  and perhaps that is the reason for their draconian stances on stopping racing & showing. You reap what you sow.

 

 

 

 

[sammy]

seen the parsons/cowan dvd and most of them keep them healthy ones to ,they all seem to advocate for natural immunity but how can it be done when people just shove this or that down their throat s and thats coming from top vets  

[Guest]

PAUL IRRESPONSIBLE FANCIERS THATS WHAT YI SAID ,I DONT USE ANTIBIOTICS ON ME PIGEONS SO YOU ARE CALLING ME IRRESPONSIBLE ,HAD PIGEONS ALL MY LIFE FATHER HAD THEM AND HIS FATHER HAD AND NEVER EVER NEED ED TO USE ANTIBIOTICS THATS HOW ALL THIS YBS AND WHAT NOT STARTED IN THE FIRST [PLACE BY IRRESPONSIBLE FANCIERS USING SOMETHING THEY AINT GOT A CLUE ABOUT AND TO ADVICE SOMEONE ON THEIR USE IS NOT VERY CLEVER IS IT ESPECIALLY WHEN YI DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT ITS ISES ARE FOR ,WOULD IT NOT BE BETTER TO ADVICE HIM TO SEEK OUT A GOOD VETENAIRIAN WHO WOULD OFFER THE PROPER TREATMENT AND ADVICE OF ITS USE AND MAYBE SOMETHING BETTER INSTEAD OF TREATING BLIND AND MAKINNG MATTERS WORSE THAN WHAT THEY ARE ,AND NO MY YB NEVER EVER CONTACT YBS AND YES I HAVE HAD PIGEONS GOING LIGHT ,BUT ONE THING I AM SURE OFF AND THAT IS THE OLD WAYS ARE THE BEST WAYS ASK ANY FARMER THAT  

 

samy i didnt advise him on the use of the drug he mentioned as i didnt know wot it was,i actually stated that if he /she had bought it for a reason then why bother aquiring it ,if they wasnt going to use it.

i agree with u on a natural cure would be better but in these days when fanciers have over dosed on drugs they buy from anyone because they say its good,these are the ones ,responsible for us having to treat or be put out of the sport by these infections .

 

wot id like to ask(genuinely) is wot do fanciers who dont use drugs on their birds ,how do they combat canker and cocci?...if these is summut i dont know about id like to have the know how ?.

also....if u buy birds from another loft/sale how do u know that these birds havent been medicated with drugs in the past?

these are genuine questions and not meant to sound other then for info .

 

and i have to appologise to u sammy as i wasnt referring to all fanciers who dont use drugs, i should have made it clearer that i meant fanciers who have had problems and leaving it to natural imunity to cure their birds yet put their birds in the basket at the club.while still possibly having an infection.......paul

[Guest]

These posts were split from another thread and comprise a new topic.

[MsPigeon]

I hear ya Paul, and I agree completly with you and Chrissy. But may as well save your breath... Not only would I like to hear what they do to combat, canker, cocci, and respitatory, but do they race their birds the whole season and do they have birds that go to every race and clock every race?

Carol  :-/

[Guest]

I hear ya Paul, and I agree completly with you and Chrissy. But may as well save your breath... Not only would I like to hear what they do to combat, canker, cocci, and respitatory, but do they race their birds the whole season and do they have birds that go to every race and clock every race?

Carol  :-/

 

Was just asking myself the same question!!,course they don't,we know that.First thing we should be asking people when they say they don't treat is how are their results,enough said I think

[MsPigeon]

Good Point!  :-/

[Lennut Tar]

 

Was just asking myself the same question!!,course they don't,we know that.First thing we should be asking people when they say they don't treat is how are their results,enough said I think

 

Well I imagine ??????? I'm going to make quite a few friends here now. ;D ;D ;D.

I'm one that will stick up for Sammy here "Big Time", I notice he is a distance fanatic. "Well so am I" ;D ;D ;D you can have all those crappy sprint races etc, in my view. Now I'm not quite sure what catagory   ;) the women here that are challenging his views one could say, fit into, Please advise me !!!!!!!. I would love to know. especially after the way, certain birds appear to  be handled & treated, within this discussion.

Long before the internet & pigeon vet's come on the scene etc (A quite recent event really in pigeon terms, in most cases) People like Sammy & I, learnt to use what was available at the time, through experimentation, To achieve what we have in the sport.

Just a few observations for those that challenge people like Sammy & Myself.

Yes Iv'e been to a vet, &  no, not the local guru 10 minutes down the road who many say is a world renowned expert. :D . It was nearly 10 years ago now when I had my last visit to a vet for advise & wisdom   :P & it cost me $138, I still remember it to this day & most of the crap I bought, stayed in the fridge till my wife (She who must be obeyed) threw it all out, after 2 years. I was just saving it for a rainy day, as we say here.

Now!!!!!!! You may disbelieve people like Sammy & myself, when in our wisdom we have chosen a different path in this sport, in our endeavours to be successful.

"That is your choice". But ask your self this, how much have you spent on vet's etc or medications in the last 10 years as a example. I may not be the brightest person here   :P But I bet (No not my house) They are richer than you are.

I'm not going to go into a long list of items etc, that I have used over the many years in this sport, to treat the above mentioned diseases. But what I will say is!!!!!!!!. If you cannot find numerous items at your local asian/chinese store etc or your local supermarket, your not trying in my view &  you just want to take the easy way out, & trot off to the local vet or supply house to increase there profits.

Finally!!!!!! I don't have to travel to far, to see my name up on all the honour boards in gold etc at different clubs in the distance races & averages. Can you say that here. If not. Please try to understand ??????? if you can. Many roads lead to Rome.

Enjoy.

 

 

 

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

Well I imagine ??????? I'm going to make quite a few friends here now. ;D ;D ;D.

I'm one that will stick up for Sammy here "Big Time", I notice he is a distance fanatic. "Well so am I" ;D ;D ;D you can have all those crappy sprint races etc, in my view. Now I'm not quite sure what catagory   ;) the women here that are challenging his views one could say, fit into, Please advise me !!!!!!!. I would love to know. especially after the way, certain birds appear to  be handled & treated, within this discussion. Long before the internet & pigeon vet's come on the scene etc (A quite recent event really in pigeon terms, in most cases) People like Sammy & I, learnt to use what was available at the time, through experimentation, To achieve what we have in the sport.

Just a few observations for those that challenge people like Sammy & Myself.

Yes Iv'e been to a vet, &  no, not the local guru 10 minutes down the road who many say is a world renowned expert. :D . It was nearly 10 years ago now when I had my last visit to a vet for advise & wisdom   :P & it cost me $138, I still remember it to this day & most of the crap I bought, stayed in the fridge till my wife (She who must be obeyed) threw it all out, after 2 years. I was just saving it for a rainy day, as we say here.

Now!!!!!!! You may disbelieve people like Sammy & myself, when in our wisdom we have chosen a different path in this sport, in our endeavours to be successful.

"That is your choice". But ask your self this, how much have you spent on vet's etc or medications in the last 10 years as a example. I may not be the brightest person here   :P But I bet (No not my house) They are richer than you are.

I'm not going to go into a long list of items etc, that I have used over the many years in this sport, to treat the above mentioned diseases. But what I will say is!!!!!!!!. If you cannot find numerous items at your local asian/chinese store etc or your local supermarket, your not trying in my view &  you just want to take the easy way out, & trot off to the local vet or supply house to increase there profits.

Finally!!!!!! I don't have to travel to far, to see my name up on all the honour boards in gold etc at different clubs in the distance races & averages. Can you say that here. If not. Please try to understand ??????? if you can. Many roads lead to Rome.

Enjoy.

 

 

 

Very clever and extremely successful one's spring's to mind, you should maybe check out some of the results obtained and you will see what class they "fit into ", I Would probably say WINNERS, that seems an appropriate class distinction to me.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

i use medication and to be honest only irresponsible fanciers dont use them these days ,AND I DONT USE IT SO ,YOU CALLING ME IRRESPONSIBLE AND THAT I DONT KNOW WHAT AM DOING ,YOUR THE ONE THATS IREESPONSIBLE GIVING OUT ADVICE LIKE THIS ,MY PIGEONS DONT GET MEDICATION OF ANY SORT NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL NATURE ALLOWED THEM TO HAVE AN IMMUNE SYSTEM TO TAKE CARE OF THIS AND PEOPLE WITH YOUR IRRISPONSIBLE ATTITIUDE HAVE WEAKENED IT ,AND TO SAY THAT UNTREATED PIGEONS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SPREADING DISEASE YOU WANT TO READ UP A BIT MORE ON HOW PIGEONS CAONTACT DISEASES  

 

When your computer is repaired I hope they install spell check on it for you Sammy so everybody can understand you.   :P ;D ;D

 

[Merlin]

I have no problem in understanding what Sammy is on about,being of the same mind as regards health of pigeons,and I believe to administer most medications ad lib on  a regular basis to  birds,in most cases when its not even required,now who is being irresponsible,the immune system is most important in all living creatures,boost this by all means,dont abuse it with conoctions of different chemicals,its when immune system cant cope,troubles begin,healty immune system,equals very little illness,practices this for many years,my birds are as healthy as one can expect,they win in good company for myself,and also for others,and have done for years,I have no problem with fanciers who wish to fly what I term (dopeheads) they come and go with regularity,my own methods are tried and trusted,a good healthy immune system,if  one should show signs of illness,dispose of it,its a weakness,a flaw in its make up,these are working athletes, and nature has decreed it so,why bother to medicate something inferior,which you should be trying to eliminate

[Merlin]

Welcome back Bruno,and as usual your input is totally logical,educational,with a relevant amount of insight,on this issue

[Lennut Tar]

i use medication and to be honest only irresponsible fanciers dont use them these days ,AND I DONT USE IT SO ,YOU CALLING ME IRRESPONSIBLE AND THAT I DONT KNOW WHAT AM DOING ,YOUR THE ONE THATS IREESPONSIBLE GIVING OUT ADVICE LIKE THIS ,MY PIGEONS DONT GET MEDICATION OF ANY SORT NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL NATURE ALLOWED THEM TO HAVE AN IMMUNE SYSTEM TO TAKE CARE OF THIS AND PEOPLE WITH YOUR IRRISPONSIBLE ATTITIUDE HAVE WEAKENED IT ,AND TO SAY THAT UNTREATED PIGEONS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SPREADING DISEASE YOU WANT TO READ UP A BIT MORE ON HOW PIGEONS CAONTACT DISEASES  

 

When your computer is repaired I hope they install spell check on it for you Sammy so everybody can understand you.   :P ;D ;D

 

quote]

 

"Tammy 1" on a site such as this, where many of us come from different backgrounds etc & lifestyles, I do not see the need to criticize anyone, when they attempt to give advice in their own familar way & there just happens to be the odd spelling mistake  ;D ;D ;D or two. Many of us ( myself included) are not academically gifted in the English langauge, & we just do the best we can. With what god gave us, as they say.

Many of us here, would  be found guilty   ;) as charged in my view, if that is the criteria which we are to go by now, & in the future.

Totally out of place/order & not required.

PS. What is spell cheque ??????   :)   & where do you find it.   :D

Enjoy.

 

 

[Guest IB]

Lennut Tar: I agree with you on Tammy_1 'attack' on Sammy.

 

Tammy_1 : 'Attack' what Sammy has to say on medication rather than how he says it, and supply proof supporting your own view of things.

 

Chrissy & MsPigeon: Your stance appears to be (1) you need to medicate pigeons to win with them. (2) People who don't medicate don't win and (3) non-medicated pigeons spread disease in the basket.  

 

You have not supplied proof supporting any of these views, and you avoid the main issue - that this is not really just about pigeons but more a human and animal health issue. Most health professionals have probably never owned a pigeon far less obtained results with one, but that does not mean that their knowledge of their subject is inferior to your own - they know what they are talking about and their knowledge is light years ahead of your own, because neither one of you have offered any evidence to support one word of what you advocate is in the best interests of the pigeon or the owner. Another term for it is 'win at all costs' and it is a completely irresponsible way to behave, and worse still, encourages new starts to believe and behave the same way.

 

I'll break the post now and make 2 fresh posts with 'my' evidence. Kindly do the members on here a service by reading and commenting on what the professionals say about the irresponsible use of antimicrobials, rather than attack people's performances, only one person can win 1st prize, so stands to reason there's more losers than winners every week, and some weeks you must figure amongst the losers too..

 

  

[Guest IB]

Bayer, the firm who produce Baytril, are quite clear on responsible behaviour where antimicrobials are concerned – their Principles state they are to be used only by professionals and then only in the treatment of actual disease. They are not to be used routinely to prevent infection in healthy animals. And in the case of a repeated flock infection with Salmonella, their requirements are also quite clear – don’t treat with any of their products – cull the flock out. Extracts (document of 20 pages).

 

http://www.animalhealth.bayerhealthcare.com/fileadmin/media/ah/Quinolones.pdf

 

P7

 

Guidelines on prudent use of quinolones

 

Principles

 

Bayer is committed to serving the animal health industry with sate of the art medications, ie products comprising high quality and efficacy standards. At the same time it is Bayers declared policy that product safety and environmental compatibility have the same priority as quality and efficacy. The following principles govern Bayers commitment to the use of quinolones:-

 

Quinolones are highly effective therapeutic drugs for both humans and animals and must be used in a responsible manner.

 

Bayer strictly rejects any use of Quinolones as performance enhancers. Bayer has never sought nor will ever seek approval for such use.

 

Bayers Quinolone products are not to be used routinely to prevent infection in healthy animals (prophylaxis - any procedure whose purpose is to prevent, rather than treat or cure, disease). Bayer actively supports adherence to this principle.

 

 

P8

 

Requirements

 

Quinolones are to be available only on veterinary prescription and should be used under close supervision of a licensed veterinarian. They are to be used for short term therapy only. They should only be used in cases of serious infections and never used for viral or trivial bacterial infections.

 

Wherever possible, administration of quinolones  is, in addition to an accurate clinical diagnosis, to be based on bacterial culture diagnosis and susceptibility testing of the causative pathogen(s) to ensure that quinolones are the appropriate choice. In certain cases it may be necessary to initiate therapy in the best interest of the patient, based on clinical diagnosis and experience of the vet, before results of susceptibility testing are available. To facilitate the performance of susceptibility tests, validated enroflaxin discs and E-test strips specific for enroflaxin are available.

 

If Salmonella typhimurium DT 104 (a serotype prone to develop decreased susceptibility to antimicrobials) has been historically reported in a herd or flock, treatment with a quinolone is not recommended. Instead an eradication program should be initiated. In general, livestock and poultry producers should take steps to intensify Salmonella control measures in order to reduce the persistence or spread of S. typhimurium DT 104.

 

 

 

[Guest IB]

Bayers stand on responsible use is mirrored by animal and human health professionals across the world, and was their considered response to these concerns. The Animal Health and Human Health Professionals also proposed wide sweeping changes to antimicrobial use, not least of which was the retraining of those professionals in the responsible use of antibiotics,  and also educating the public on their responsible use.  Extracts : - (Document of 60 pages):-

 

PP8 – 16 antimicrobials in humans

 

PP20-24 antimicrobials in animals

 

http://www.archive.official-documents.co.uk/document/cm41/4172/4172.pdf

 

R e s i s t a n c e  t o  A n t i b i o t i c s  a n d  o t h e r  A n t i m i c r o b i a l

A g e n t s

 

P6

 

International Issues

 

Antimicrobial resistance recognises no boundaries and the Government will continue to play its part in keeping the key issues on the international agenda. With UK support, the World Health Assembly adopted a resolution in May 1998 which urged Member States to take measures, which are broadly in line with the planned UK strategy, and called on the Director General to promote international cooperation. The World Health Organisation (WHO) Regional Committee for Europe subsequently endorsed, in September 1998, a new policy framework for international cooperation which includes the need to monitor changing antimicrobial resistance patterns.

 

In parallel, the European Commission, in its communication of April 1998 on the development of public health policy in the European Community, identified the growing problem of resistance to antibiotics as one of a number of new risks to health. Subsequently, the Commissions Scientific Steering Committee set up a multi-disciplinary working group to examine all aspects related to the use of antimicrobials and the development of resistance. Its report is expected early in 1999.

 

Separately, prompted by concerns voiced by the Chief Medical Officers of EU Member States, the Danish Ministries of Health and of Food, Agriculture and Fisheries organised a successful international conference in September this year on The Microbial Threat. There was a strong UK contingent. The conference made a number of recommendations to the European Union and Member States, again broadly in line with the action planned in the UK. Details of the

recommendations are at Annex B.

 

P8

 

Prudent use in human medicine

 

P13

 

Recommendation 11.11. We commend the Government and the ABPI for their firm stand against over-the-counter antibiotics, and urge them not to give way. ......we recommend that the Government should engage in active diplomacy to ensure that, should the issue be raised in the Council of Ministers, their position is understood and their allies are in place; and, in the long-term, to induce those Member States which are currently more relaxed about over-the-counter antibiotics to introduce more control (paragraph 2.26-30).

 

Directorate General XXIV of the European Commission (EC) has established a number of scientific committees to provide independent scientific advice in the field of consumer health and food safety. A subgroup of the overarching Scientific Steering Committee is currently looking at all aspects of antimicrobial resistance and is expected to provide a draft Opinion to the Commission by the end of 1998 based on its findings.

 

Under the European licensing system, the legal status of medicines - whether they are available with or without prescription, in a pharmacy or on general sale - is currently a decision for each Member State. In the UK, no systemic antibacterial agents are currently available without prescription, although some antimalarial, antiviral and antifungal agents are. The Medicines Control Agency (MCA) will review the legal status of this latter group of medicines taking into account the best interests of the patient and the possibility that they might contribute to the

development of resistance. The Government will continue strongly to promote adherence to prescription only status for all antibacterials within the EC and elsewhere.

 

P14

 

Recommendation 11.12. The increased education for doctors which we recommend above should include education in communication skills (ie how to explain the reasons for refusing a prescription) and other ways to avoid prescribing on demand (eg delayed-action prescriptions) (paragraph 2.3-7, 2.37).

 

The Government recognises the importance of communication skills among health care professionals, and of greater doctor-patient understanding in the area of antimicrobial prescribing. In January 1998, after consultation with the medical profession, the Government introduced new regulations requiring all doctors completing training for general practice to pass an assessment before they can receive the certificate that entitles them to practice. The assessment includes tests of a doctors ability to communicate effectively, both orally and in writing, and to consult to a satisfactory standard with general practice patients.

 

The Government funds a number of regular sources of information to help GPs prescribe appropriately. These include the British National Formulary (BNF) - which sets out the basics of prescribing, specific advice from the Committee on the Safety of Medicines and information on the appropriateness, selection, dose and recommended duration of courses of antimicrobials – the Drug and Therapeutics and Medicines Resource Centre (MeReC) Bulletins and the Prescribers Journal.

 

The Standing Medical Advisory Committee (SMAC) in its report, The Path of Least Resistance recommend four simple messages four things you can do to make a difference be promoted in primary care to influence doctors prescribing:

 

no prescribing of antibiotics for simple coughs and colds;

 

no prescribing of antibiotics for viral sore throats;

 

limit prescribing of antibiotics over the telephone to exceptional cases.

 

P16

 

Recommendation 11.14. ...nothing must be done to deter people from visiting their GP promptly, or from taking their medicine when necessary. But there is evidence (paragraphs 2.40-45) that unnecessary antibiotics not only have public health consequences, but also increase the risk to the individual patient that any subsequent infection will involve a more resistant strain.... The Government and the Health Authorities should present this evidence to the public.

 

The Government accepts the need, as also recommended by the Standing Medical Advisory Committee (SMAC), for a public information campaign to complement a multi-professional educational campaign. The two must run alongside each other and give the same messages: the SMAC report suggested a Campaign on Antibiotic Treatment in primary care (CAT, see 11.12 above) complemented by a National Advice to the Public (NAP) campaign. The Department of Health plans such a campaign, with a probable launch in the Spring of 1999. The Department agrees that targeting parents and carers of young children will be important and that one conduit for messages on this subject is womens magazines that are likely to be read by mothers with young children. The campaign needs to be carefully planned to ensure that members of the public do not delay seeking their GPsÕ advice on any concerns they might have so that serious conditions - for example, suspected meningitis - are not missed or exacerbated. The Government fully agrees that the campaigns messages must not put people off taking antibiotics or completing the course when they are necessary. The key messages are being discussed further but are likely to be along the lines of:

 

antibiotics used properly are a useful and important treatment for certain conditions;

 

antibiotics are not magic bullets for every infection - they are a valuable commodity which must be used judiciously;

 

taking them unnecessarily does no good and puts their long term usefulness at risk;

 

do not expect antibiotics for trivial infections;

 

your GP knows when to prescribe them;

 

if you are prescribed antibiotics you should take them as prescribed and finish the course;

 

the benefits of preserving the normal bacterial flora in the gut and on the skin.

 

P20

 

Prudent use in animals

 

Recommendation 11.18. The evidence we have heard (paragraphs 3.7-13) strongly suggests that there is a continuing threat to human health from imprudent use of antibiotics in animals.

 

The Government set up an investigation into microbial resistance in relation to the food chain which is being carried out by a working group of the Governments Advisory Committee on the Microbiological Safety of Food (ACMSF). The working group is expected to report to ACMSF before the end of the year and the Committee will offer advice to the Government on a range of issues concerning the responsible use of antimicrobials as veterinary medicines and growth promoters. The Veterinary Products Committee (VPC) held an open meeting in June and has submitted its advice to the Government.

 

The industry is playing its part in encouraging responsible use of antimicrobials in animals. A Code of Practice, developed by the British Veterinary Association, is intended to help guide the profession on the treatment of individual species, including approaches to treatment and the selection and administration of antimicrobials. The National Farmers Union is looking to develop a Code of Practice with the aim of reducing the amount of antimicrobial usage in farming, including use for growth promotion. Both the ACMSF and the VPC are likely to make recommendations on the need for such codes of practice, and these may include the requirements of such codes and the development of formularies by individual veterinary practices.

 

P22

 

Recommendation 11.21. Potent agents important for human medicine, such as the

fluoroquinolones, deserve extreme economy of use in veterinary practice (paragraphs 3.15-19, 25-26). It is right for large animals and companion animals to receive such agents on an individual basis for short-term therapy; but mass-treatment of herds of pigs and flocks of poultry with such agents cannot be best practice from the point of view of human public health. The veterinary profession must address this problem, by introducing rapidly a Code of Practice on when such compounds should be prescribed ... and how; we recommend self regulation in preference to legislation.

 

The Government will encourage the development of guidelines for each species (as recommended by the British Veterinary Association), which will help to ensure the responsible use of fluoroquinolones and other potent agents important for human medicine. The Government welcomes the National Office of Animal Health (NOAH) industry statement on the responsible use of fluoroquinolones as veterinary medicines.

 

The Medicines Commission has advised Ministers that marketing authorisations for existing antimicrobial veterinary medicines should be critically assessed by the Veterinary Medicines Directorate (VMD) at the time of renewal to ensure that Data Sheets Summaries of Product Characteristics fully reflect appropriate clinical practice. The Government accepts this advice and has asked the VMD to proceed with this review.

 

The Veterinary Products Committee has recommended that, in the authorisation process for therapeutic antimicrobials, the development of optimised dosing rates and strategies should be based on recent advances in pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic data. For currently authorised antimicrobials, where necessary, new dose rates and strategies should be developed.

The Government has asked the VMD to implement these recommendations.

 

P24

 

Recommendation 11.24. We draw to MAFFs attention the evidence of Dr Coles (paragraphs 3.36-41), which suggests that resistance in worms pose a serious and imminent threat to the British sheep farming industry.

 

The Agriculture Departments regularly consider all needs for research and surveillance funding and are aware of the views of Dr Coles. Officials met Dr Coles in September 1997 and invited him to develop his views on surveillance and research needs. The Chief Veterinary Officer invited him again to meet officials. The industry also has a responsibility to fund research important to its

future economic position.

 

P45

 

Education

 

The development of guidelines and their widescale introduction into clinical practice will have important and beneficial spin-offs for the education of health care professionals involved in antimicrobial prescribing. The whole population would benefit from enhanced education about the benefits and disadvantages of antimicrobials.

 

Greater emphasis should be placed on teaching about antimicrobial prescribing in Medical and Dental Schools as well as in the undergraduate curricula for pharmacists and nurses. Teaching about antimicrobials should be better integrated with teaching about the infections for which they are used. This enhanced emphasis on education in antimicrobial use should be carried over into

continuing medical, dental and professionals education and development. Similar concepts apply in the field of veterinary medicine. In addition to health education material aimed at adults, teaching about antibiotics should be included as part of health Wducation in the National Curriculum.

 

Hygiene, infection control and cross-infection

Infection control, although intimately bound up with problems of antimicrobial resistance - particularly in health care environments - was outside the Terms of Reference of the Sub-Group. Nevertheless, it is fundamental to preventing the spread of resistant organisms, not only in hospitals but also in the community.

Consideration should be given to producing guidance on infection control in the community, especially in nursing and residential homes, similar to that which exists for hospitals.

 

Veterinary and agricultural use

[b]Antimicrobials are used in therapy and prophylaxis and as growth promoters/enhancers in animals. The use of antibiotics in veterinary practice should be guided by the same principles as for human prescribing - namely, they should be used only for clinical conditions where their use is likely to

provide a genuine health benefit. Alternative means of animal husbandry should be developed so that the use of antibiotics as growth promoters can be discontinued[/b].

 

P48

 

The Copenhagen Recommendations

 

The implications for human health of the increasing resistance of microorganisms to antimicrobial agents

 

Resistance to antimicrobial agents is a major public health problem in Europe.

International spread of microorganism means that resistance to antimicrobial agents can no longer be regarded as a national problem. It is a European and global problem and requires a common strategy.

 

Antimicrobial resistance among microorganisms that cause disease in the community and in hospital is leading to increased deaths, illness, and costs. The full extent of the problem is, however, not yet known.

 

All antimicrobial drugs can select microorganisms that are resistant.

 

There is an established but complex relation between the consumption of antimicrobial agents and the prevalence of drug resistance in microorganisms. Dissemination of resistant microorganisms occurs both in hospital and the community. The major route of transmission of resistant microorganisms from animals to man is through the food chain.

 

Pharmaceutical companies are making great efforts to develop new antimicrobial agents and ways of countering infectious disease, and they should be encouraged to continue this important work.

 

But such innovations cannot be expected to solve the problems in the near future. It is thus essential to introduce policies on the rational use of antimicrobial to avoid further increases in resistance.

 

P50

 

Guidelines for appropriate antimicrobial usage should be introduced in all aspects of both medical and veterinary practice.

 

The conference noted that most guidelines on antimicrobial usage say what should not be done rather than what should be done. A preliminary attempt was thus made to define good practice. What follows must be developed, but it is worth sharing - Treatment should be limited to bacterial infections, using antibiotics directed against the causative agent, given in optimal dosage, dosage

intervals and length of treatment with steps taken to ensure maximum patient concordance with the treatment regimen, and only when the benefit of the treatment outweighs the individual and global risks.

 

[frank-123]

no doubt now you are bruno all right ;D

[sammy]

 

Was just asking myself the same question!!,course they don't,we know that.First thing we should be asking people when they say they don't treat is how are their results,enough said I think

you only show your pigeons chrissy yi dont race them .i have pigeons in my loft which have flew the full old bird pfogramme to maidstone 300 odd mile one hen was 85 open couple of years ago and has never seen anytreatnebt of any kind whatsoever apert from vaccination she was also timed second day from alecon the week after she flew maidstone ,antibiotics DONT make good pigeons maybe in part keep them healthy if thats what yi call it ,but as long as you haver fun doing it your way thats all that matters  ;D ;D

[Guest]

no doubt now you are bruno all right ;D

 

what makes you think that ;D