AVIAN FLU

[Guest]

Thanks, Rose.

Some new developments courtesy of the Webmaster. He has identified that more surfers are hitting the home page, looking for articles, reading them then leaving without coming into the Message Forum. We are therefore missing information and views from them, and they are missing ours. I have prepared an article which is a distillation of everything we know about Avian Flu so far. It will go up on the Home Page shortly. A link will be made available from it which will take interested parties straight into this Forum.

Another version of it is available from me for use as a briefing paper for anyone who wants one. Got one off to the SHU; my MSP and my MP today together with a letter describing what we are trying to do.

Hatched another evil plan too. Pointed out public spiritedness of Dutch; Asked MSP and MP to raise as a public health issue in Scottish and Westminster Parliaments and question why they weren't following suit as free range poultry and a dangerous virus on the loose add up to a public health danger not only for poultry workers and their families, but for the rest of us.

Turned the tables too. Pointed out free range poultry would endanger our birds' safety, not the other way about, as should Avian Flu break out in poultry, our birds, confined before the virus strikes, healthy and virus-free, will automatically become a target for slaughter. (But we'll have a contingency plan for that too)  

[preston powerblast]

I thought thats what we paid the RPRA for .

[Guest]

Well, letter emailed to The Scotsman today. Will wait until tomorrow before I email it to The Herald. If any of you wish a copy for your own national daily, private message me with your email address and I'll get one to you. Remember, it is YOUR letter, and you can edit my template as much as you like to get your own particular viewpoint accross. Same goes for briefing paper and letter for your MSP and MP / MP.

 

6/9/05

 

Editor, Scotsman

 

Sir,

 

Avian Influenza / Avian Flu / Bird flu is a highly infectious viral disease that can affect all species of birds. It can ‘jump’ from birds to humans, causing severe illness and death.

Most cases of avian flu in people occur through direct contact with infected poultry or other birds or their faeces. These population groups therefore have higher-than-normal exposure risks to this disease, and there is also the greater risk to human health of a sick keeper providing an Avian Flu virus with a potential bridge to a Human Flu virus. This could lead to an exchange of virus genes within the human and create a deadly new strain of flu and start off a flu pandemic - just what the World Health Organisation fears most.

 

Now it seems to me that the UK Government’s (DEFRA) ‘lead’ of doing nothing with regards to confining free range poultry now, while the UK is still virus-free, is both irresponsible and fails to properly address the wider issue – the serious risks to human health on a world wide scale. And what is DEFRA’s contingency plan should Avian flu get into poultry or pigeons. Simple. Wholesale slaughter.

 

On 22nd August the Dutch Government ordered free-range poultry to be brought inside ‘to wild bird-proof’ sheds, as a precautionary measure against the spread of Avian Flu. No ifs, buts, maybes, or “Euro signs-in-their-eyes” there – they did it for the greater good of all.

 

The Dutch Poultry Industry also co-operated wholeheartedly, because unlike anyone in the UK - government or industry – they have had first hand recent experience of Avian Flu - H7N7, a subgroup of the H5N1 virus. In their 2003 outbreak, they lost 50 million birds and one of their vets. You will agree losing a medical professional in animal care in a disease outbreak in birds is especially alarming. In addition, they had 80 cases of conjunctivitis in poultry workers, cullers and their close contacts, that is they spread the disease to their family and friends.

 

Do we really want to go down in history for a different reason? Do we really want Scotland to become known as the source of a flu pandemic? It is now not a question of if it reaches the UK, but when. As we are also approaching our winter human flu period, it is a particularly dangerous time for this virus to appear here.

 

I am trying to have my pigeon colleagues follow the Dutch Government and Poultry Industry’s lead. Confining free-ranging birds is a reasonable and sensible precaution proportionate to the risks of an out-of-control and unpredictable virus and a population group with higher-than-normal exposure risks to this disease. I believe it to be the only and correct action to take when something as dangerous as Avian Flu is spreading. Currently, the method of virus transmission from country to country is unknown.

 

So the point of my letter is clear: Will the Scottish Parliament show leadership and make the call to have all (Scottish) Free Range Poultry confined now? The UK Organic Industry wants leadership but has too many £-signs in its eyes to see that should Avian flu strike, they’ll have no flocks and no income anyway – organic or otherwise.

 

Yours,

 

[preston powerblast]

Here, here.

[jimmy white]

i took a visit today to the royal dick vet, the bush estate, phoned the maff at st boswells then phoned tom penycott, i found mr penycott to be quite a gentleman and at least took the time to speak to me and explained the need for hygeine etc  and any ailing or dead pigeon should be immediatly taken for p.m.. any strays should be kept seperate reported and returned asap.providing their well.he said we dont have a vaccine as such, as this virus tends to mutate as it travels. so really we would have to get it first before we can produce a vaccine, i asked him if we will definately get this bird flu  or not get it, his answer was we probably will,,,, i asked at the bush estate, the same questions. they said we would probably would be better keeping birds confined and use the same hygeine, i then asked if there were still free range chickens, they said yes, so i asked him why he advises us to keep our birds in,yet there were free range chickens ,he then suddenly was very busy, and said its just till  we find out more, then he was off.  when i phoned the maff, they said they couldnt give me private information on the phone so i asked them if they would e.mail me with any info they said no, and that i was to ask the pigeon organizations, so that was a great help  so basicly they are saying to me , wait till it comes then well do something..   mr tom pennycot was the best help and at least took the time to help and advise..,    when i was in the royal dick vet, i picked up an old sac newspaper and noticed that tom pennycot [along with others]was in india last year,,,,,continuing to work on improving the health of scavenging poultry,,,,it seems this man knows his bussiness

[Guest]

Thought I recognised the name, Jimmy.  

Tom Pennycott is part of the Pigeon Fanciers Lung Working Group, and I'm sure he published a paper on Adenovirus and its effects in Young Bird Sickness which appeared in the BHW a couple of years back.

Again, took a while for penny to drop, but I think I have a 6 year old grand daughter who would certainly be able to come up with a better contingency plan than 'wait till it infects birds, then slaughter everything'.

Spent a lifetime in the rail industry where safety message was to anticipate 'danger' and plan to avoid it wherever possible. But then the £2.5 million cost per life, one event every 250 years type mentality sh*t crept in. Paddington, Hatfield etc put and end to that.

So I had hoped after Foot & Mouth some thought would have gone into preventative measures. And prevent a repeat of those dreadful disposal scenes - goodness knows how the farmers felt seeing a lifetime's work destroyed like that. Half the world starving, and the UK burns millions of tonnes of healthy cattle.  

Now the big change here with Avian Flu is I think that it is primarily a human health issue, rather than animal health, and that a Public Health Authority should be the lead organisation, not an economic animal health department like DEFRA (which the Contingency Plan says IS the lead organisation) because that is a definite conflict of interests. Human health has been put needlessly at risk in the failure to confine free range poultry...and these birds' lives, the health of the people who tend them and their livelihoods are all in jeopardy ... because 'organic' premiums (££££) are at risk.

I'm quite certain people will still buy organic when the birds are confined for their own safety.

A big part of the organic movement is economic animal welfare after all. You can't get any 'greener' than taking steps to confine birds to protect them from a dangerous virus - especially when the alternative is wholesale slaughter.

 

[preston powerblast]

Our dear Government only lock the door after the horse has bolted.

Like the foot and mouth.

Their answer is simple, if there is a big outbreak they will go on another killing spree.

They have already said that if there is a mass cull then farmers will only get compensated for slaughtered chickens and not for infected ones.

This being this case, will farmers report it?

Because if all their chickens get infected they will receive zero compo.

Out of 40 poultry farms that i have been in contact with, none have been contacted by any organisation and the the only info that they have had is what i have sent them.

I have spoken to a friend of mine from the agricultaral college who advises me on certain aspects of Boisecurity.

He seems to think if it does hit us it will be in  the winter time.

But any info will be on a need to know basis.

 

[jimmy white]

just to clarify your last post bruno, i think it could be mistaken that tom pennycot advises this slaughter, he certainly does not  , irealise what you mean, but could be mistaken the way youve posted.   as far as i know mr pennycot is a vetenary surgeon  and ALSO a pigeon fancier , so i should imagine that would be the last thing on his mind. hes a very knowledgable man  and being a fancier himself can only help,   things ,,,,    i agree with rose  and all, its the old story     money is the route of all evil    thats the message i got when when i did my enquiries   pigeons mean absolutely nothing to the government,, but off course poultry etc does      so you can read between the lines      jimmy

[Guest]

Thanks for sounding a warning on possible misinterpretation of my post on Tom Pennycott, Jimmy. You were quite clear in your own post that you found him very helpful. I tried to bolster your opinion on him by pointing out he has helped pigeon fanciers 'in the past'.

And well done too on that foray into 'enemy' territory. Taken with P/Powerblast's info we can draw reasonable conclusions that what we have been saying here about Avian Flu's arrival in the UK is 100% correct:

 

(1) It's definitely coming.

(2) Most likely winter - the most dangerous time for us with our own winter flu about.

(3) The only preventative strategy is likely to be our own.

(4) When the sh*t hits the fan, our birds will be in the firing line.

(5) Pigeons that haven't been confined pose a serious risk to their owners; Those owners pose a serious risk to the rest of us, spreading disease through contact, and to our own birds through being within the resultant slaughter / quarantine zone (10km?).

 

 

[Guest]

Just a note on organic farming animals' rights to 5 basic 'freedoms' (Courtesy of the Farm Animal Welfare Council) and appearing in Section 8.6 of DEFRA's Organic Farmer's Control Manual:

 

Husbandry

 

(ii) Freedom from discomfort - by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.

 

(iii) Freedom from disease or injury - by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment.

 

Seems DEFRA can't abide by its own rules. An appropriate environment is one which doesn't expose the bird to disease - the shelter that will ensure that is already there; and freedom from disease has PREVENTION as its first action call.

 

[preston powerblast]

And what info did we get in the BHW this week about this possible outbreak??????????

Naff all.

Are we the only ones who seem to taking this threat seriously.

Ok If it doesnt happen maybe, they will think we were a bunch of kranks or that we were over protective fanciers.

But if it does happen well who will then look the foolish ones then.

[THE FIFER]

better being safe than sorry powrerblast and u are all doing a great job with info etc keep it up, it's the only plaCE WE ARE GETTING KEPT UP TO DATE, HERE ON THE FORUM, so well done all.

[jimmy white]

yes your quite right power blast , havent seen the bhw yet but beleive you , and if you pardon me saying so, its not  if its going to happen  its more like when its going to happen,, we should keep our eyes open in the scotsman  and the gaurdian to see if brunos letters are printed and  what response we get to them [it wasnt in the scotsman today]  but hes not long sent the letters, so lets wait and see ,on that one. jimmy

[preston powerblast]

Thre is a lot more info now on this site including maps and and possible carrier species.

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/monitoring/pdf/hpai-centralasia020905.pdf

[Guest]

Thanks p/powerblast.

 

 

IMPORTANT EXTRACT FROM DEFRA RISK ASSESSMENT!!

 

This update and commentary does not alter our previous conclusion regarding the

increased (but still low) likelihood of the introduction of H5N1 virus by migratory

waterbirds from the affected region to the UK during the autumn (post-breeding)

migration season

 

 

First indication that H5N1 is expected AUTUMN 2005, not winter 2006 as we expected!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[jimmy white]

bruno,

         

any   of your articles in scotsman or gaurdian ? , ive missed them since sat,

i certainly hope they print them  jimmy

[Guest]

No Jimmy, scored 0 out of 4 for last week's efforts.  :'(

 

No show in Scotsman or Herald (AI maybe old news there?)  ??)

 

And neither the Gordon Chalmers joint letter (to correct the misunderstanding some had picked up that pigeons weren't involved in AI), or the letter sent in response to the View from the Reddings Special on 'Avian Flu', were published by BHW - as at 9th September.  ??)

[Guest]

Following a note in BHW Round O’s column that the Finland Gull was clear (thought it strange at the time as we were told not to expect any result for three weeks) went looking for news of it and found this website dedicated to Avian Flu reports around the world.

 

"This web site exists to document news about H5N1 Avian Flu from around the world, comment on it and create news archives that will help inform health workers, politicians and members of the public about the issues facing their nation should this infection become a human epidemic. Scroll down for extensive links to all types of relevant information. The site is the work of an independent researcher - Dave Roberts"

 

http://tahilla.typepad.com/birdflu/

 

 

 

Can’t make sense of what is happening in Finland. One gull / many gulls? clear / not clear?:-

 

 

Finland remains unaffected by H5N1Tuesday, August 30, 2005

 

[justify]News reports today indicate that the Finnish chief veterinary officer has announced that the dead gull recently found in Oulu (see story August 27) does not have A/H5N1 avian influenza. It had a low pathogenic strain that is common among wild birds. The virus poses little threat to human or poultry health. [/justify]

 

Public Raises Finland Bird Flu Alarm

Link: Helsingin Sanomat - International Edition - Home.

[justify]The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry says that the sick gulls were found in connection with an intensified monitoring programme aimed at preparing for the possible spread of bird flu. A member of the public saw the birds, concluded that they might be sick, and alerted the Oulu laboratory of EELA. About ten seagulls were found, and about half of them were already dead. Officials say that the virus in question is probably a weak low-pathogen version, which does not spread as easily as the more dangerous variation.[/justify]

August 30, 2005 in Bird Flu Finland | Permalink | Comments (0)

 

Finland Bird Flu Downplayed

Link: Daily News.

[justify]Time will tell? - Others fear the worst

The strain of bird flu discovered in northern Finland is not related to the deadly H5N1 strain of the virus, the European Commission confirmed Monday.

Scientists identified the strain, which was found in a sea gull, as "a mild, low-pathogenic strain of avian influenza, which is quite commonly found in wild birds with little risk to poultry and no risk to human health," the Associated Press reported. It was the first case of bird flu ever reported in Finland.[/justify]August 30, 2005 in Bird Flu Finland | Permalink | Comments (0)

 

H5N1 Wild Bird Flu in 2nd Finnish Site

Link: H5N1 Wild Bird Flu in Rovaniemi Finland?.

[justify]"On Saturday, they say that also in Rovaniemi dead gulls were to be sent to ( some medical institute Im not familiar with...my comment not theirs ) in Oulu due to suspicious disease."

The above translation of a Finnish report identifies additional dead gulls in Rovaniemi, which is just north of Qulu, Finland. Influenza A has been detected in dead gulls in Oulu and these birds are undergoing additional testing in Finland and Great Britain.

Although reports are accompanied by comments that birds can be infected with many influenza sero-types, the large number of dead birds in Qulu, strongly implicates H5N1. Most avian influenza subtypes do not kill migratory waterfowl. Indeed, lethal H5N1 from patients in Vietnam only cause mild symptoms in experimental ducks and 70% of the waterfowl in Vietnam is H5N1 positive.[/justify]

August 30, 2005 in Bird Flu Finland | Permalink | Comments (0)

 

Finland reports possible bird flu in seagulls

Link: Reuters AlertNet

[justify]Finland's Agriculture Ministry said on Friday it had found a possible outbreak of bird flu in seagulls in the northern town of Oulu, but probably not the highly pathogenic strain that has caused deaths in Asia.

A ministry official said laboratory tests had identified the virus among "sick and dead seagulls" found in a park in Oulu, though it was not clear how many of them were carrying the disease or how serious a strain of flu it was.

"Our view a the moment is that if it is bird flu, it is low pathogenic avian influenza, not the high pathogenic which has been found in Asia," senior ministry official Riitta Heinonen told Reuters. Final test results will be ready in three weeks.[/justify]

August 27, 2005 in Bird Flu Finland | Permalink | Comments (0)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

EXTRACT FROM EU COMMISSION STATEMENT 2/9/05

 

Suspicion of AI in a seagull in Finland

 

On Friday 26 August 2005, the Finnish authorities issued a press release informing of a suspicion of AI in a seagull found dead in Oulu in the North of Finland. We have now the confirmation that the virus present in that bird is not the one circulating in Asia and the experts can exclude any links with the Asian AI epidemic. The virus identified belongs to a strain commonly found in birds in Europe.

 

 

[jimmy white]

maybe  bruno  you say its 0 out of 4    [uPTIL NOW]   but i would certainly say  10  out ten    for trying. youve put a lot of work in to this , i just hope its well appreciated   ,as im sure it will be. i know its easy for me to say ,,   keep up the good work,,  but its damned hard work and a lot of time consuming.   but weve all learned a lot through your [and other]   posts, so in the meantime i think we should all do our bit, and as i said before ,post any info. on this forum, that we would think advantagous

[Guest]

COMPREHENSIVE PUBLIC HEALTH INFORMATION - SCOTLAND

 

Excellent information, including first-time info of AI human infections in the 2004 outbreak, British Columbia, Canada.

 

http://www.hpa.org.uk/infections/topics_az/avianinfluenza/avianflufaq.htm

 

[DarkChequer]

Just thought i would post this link for everyone.

 

Avian Flu: Frequently Asked Questions

[Russian authorities seek to quell the threat to citizens and their economy with avian flu cases confirmed in seven regions of the country. Kazakhstan also is imposing quarantines and scrambling to prevent any increased danger as it sees outbreaks in five regions. The following is general information on the disease provided by the World Health Organization.]

 

 

What Is Avian Flu?

 

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/08/95634497-9BE4-45B4-832B-4869EB6B9F6A.html

[bill_bennie]

Something new from this side of the "Big Pond" came up tonight.

I don't really know to much about it, but apparently they are going to use an "Adenovirus" to try to combat this thing?

From the what I read (using Adenovirus), they may create the next problem?

 

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/2005/050912.Mittal.birdflu.html

 

 

Yours in the Sport - Bill.

[jimmy white]

reading the last few articles leads me to beleive that most fancier are taking this seriously, one very interesting quote from my last   print out,,,,,,,MANY PEOPLE BELEIVE THAT THE VIRUS WILL MUTATE AND BECOME MORE WIDESPREAD,  MITTAL SAID ,, THE QUESTION IS WHEN?   ARE WE PREPARED? WE HOPE THAT SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THIS PROJECT WILL RESULT IN DEVELOPEMENT OF AN ADENOVIRUS-BASED VACCINE EFFECTIVE AGAINST PATHOGENIC AVIAN INFLUENZA VIRUSES.,,,,,,,      HOGENESCH AND MITAL ARE BOTH MEMBERS OF THE CENTRES FOR COMPARATIVE MEDICINE, A COLLABORATION OF PURDIES COLLEGE AGRICULTURE, SCHOOL OF VETENARY MEDICINE AND THE INDIANA UNIVERSITY MEDICAL SCHOOL. THE CENTRE RESEARCHES ANIMAL AND HUNAN DISEASES TO FIND NEW TREATMENT AND CURES.        ive learned more from the posts on this forum, than a whole days trecking, to the dick vet, the maff,and the bush estate, where i learned nowt.

[bill_bennie]

I received an explanation on another site explaining about the "Adenovirus".

 

Bill: It's apparently the same human adenovirus used in gene therapy to which they are trying to attach part of the bird flu virus. As this harmless adenovirus "infects" one person after another as it spreads, it multiplies itself ( including the bird flu fragment), the body's immune system kicks in and develops antibodies to the adenovirus and the bird flu fragment. Should this person become infected with the complete bird flu virus now, the immune system will recognize the fragment and have antibodies ready to neutralize it.

It's a novel and quick way to produce enough vaccine for any country without having to rely on the labor intensive method of production through chicken eggs.

 

 

Yours in the Sport - Bill.

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