External Parasites

[Guest]

Don't know where I posted this before, but Heathcote and Speedbird should find it interesting. Ivomec is dangerous to both humans and pigeons when used incorrectly:

 

Extracted from BHW 21st October

 

Ivomectin / dectomax

 

Linda Brooks (SHU Secy) received letter from Harker’s Dr J M Ballany:

 

Pigeons coming into contact with the above CATTLE products  stand an extremely high risk of being poisoned as the dose rate for these products is 500 micrograms / kg bodyweight which relates to 1ml / 10kg up to a maximum dose of 40ml in cattle. Translating this dose rate to pigeons (average weight 400g) 0.04 of a millilitre would be applied. No pigeon fancier would be capable of administering such a small dose accurately. This dose may well be fatal to pigeons as no research has been done in pigeons with Ivomectin or Dectomax. These products are not intended for amateur use. It is illegal to purchase / administer these chemicals for use on other than the licensed species. Dectomax / Ivomectin are irritating to the skin and eyes and must not be used on dogs. Operators should wear rubber gloves and boots with a waterproof coat and goggles / visor when applying the product. The effect of these chemicals on birds of prey eating treated pigeons would be similar to that of Dieldrin / Lindane as they would accumulate in the bird of prey and eventually cause death. Both these chemicals have withdrawal periods up to 56 days after treatment before it is safe to eat meat or drink milk from treated animals.

 

Please advise your colleagues that it is extremely inadvisable to recommend treatment of pigeons with these products.

 

[Guest Silverwings]

bruno great post !  i am gutted for those poor hawks ,think you should put this article in the B.H.W. and R.P for the rest of the fancy, to make them more aware of this product !  and how those poor hawks will suffer a painfull agonising death if they  use it !

[MsPigeon]

Don't know where I posted this before, but Heathcote and Speedbird should find it interesting. Ivomec is dangerous to both humans and pigeons when used incorrectly:

 

Extracted from BHW 21st October

 

Ivomectin / dectomax

 

Linda Brooks (SHU Secy) received letter from Harker’s Dr J M Ballany:

 

Pigeons coming into contact with the above CATTLE products  stand an extremely high risk of being poisoned as the dose rate for these products is 500 micrograms / kg bodyweight which relates to 1ml / 10kg up to a maximum dose of 40ml in cattle.

 

Hi Bruno and others,

I mean no disrespect and I in no way want to debate the issue of using Ivomec for pigeons or any other animals. But I think it is safe to say that if you want to find information on an issue that reflects your point of view it is very easy to do so. Especially with the WWW. I could post anothers pigeon vets opposing views on the matter, but I won't. I just want to say, like Jimmy White, I tried it, I've compared it, and it has safely and effectivly worked for me. But I would not want any fellow pigeon fancier to use it on my say so. So better do what Bruno says!  

Carol

 

 

[Guest]

MsPigeon, I think you misunderstand me and my last post. I'm not afraid of bringing opposing and opposite views to any forum...usually I try to bring an all round view and leave others to chose their own path. If I do give an opinion it is mine...but I also usually back it up with fact.

 

However, the post to which you refer comes not from me, nor is it my opinion, it comes from Harkers the UK ivomec 'manufacturer' and is based on facts from their own research and it is in response to the publication in the same pigeon press of advice from other equally uninformed people on the misuse of ivomec in pigeons.

 

And 'uninformed people' also includes myself, because although I had a fair idea WHY ivomec might not be licensed for use in pigeons (and it doesn't take a genius to work it out either) I had no idea that it was also poisonous to humans.

 

So if you can find equally factual information, post it. Or better still, take up your views with the manufacturer direct. I look forward to you posting their reply.

 

 

 

[speedbird]

thanx bruno used it before without any problems will do some research interesting to hear other views on this topic

[Guest Doostalker]

Wim Peters in his book "Fit to Win" recommends the use of "ivermectin" at a ratio of 2% dilution in the treatment of Proventricular worms. However, he goes on to say,

 

"Two% diluted ivermectin solution was found effective  and relatively safe for pigeons. Overdosage leads to temporary blindness in some cases, lasting about six hours, but otherwise the drug is well tolerated."

 

Is Ivomectin the commercial name for Ivermectin, or are they different drugs?? Be interesting to know.

[Guest]

Doostalker, from the old forum, in reply to a question from me: "Ivermectin is a natural substance, it is produced from a naturally occurring fungus (Streptomyces avermitilis)."

 

Ivomectin / dectomax are Trade names using the same substance. I've also come across 'Ivomec Pour On' and 'Ivomec Injectable' (USA Products) on the web which I previously posted on elsewhere. Harker's, the UK Ivomectin / dectomax license holder warns in the same BHW Article (Joe Murphy 28th October 2005) that even in normal use (Cattle) "Both these chemicals have withdrawal periods up to 56 days after treatment before it is safe to eat meat or drink milk from treated animals."

 

Harker's also state that the purchase of Ivomectin / dectomax for AND their use on / in pigeons is illegal. Given that we have an Animal Health & Welfare Bill before the Scottish Parliament, I think this issue needs to be flagged-up and well understood by fanciers in the UK. Not only do you risk your pigeons and your own health, you risk prosecution and a possible life-time ban on keeping any animal.

 

 

[Guest Doostalker]

Bruno, thanks for clearing this up. If Ivomectin is not cleared for bird use then we should not use it. Anyone who does is putting their birds at risk, and like you say with the new bill coming in they could be liable to prosecution.

 

[MsPigeon]

Has anyone used diatomaceous earth for lice and other parasites? I know I read about it's use somewhere. I ran across it at the health food store and decided to give it a try. Any recomendations?

Carol

[MsPigeon]

Hi Bruno,

I thank you for all your informative and fact based posts, it is appreciated. I'm sorry but I don't have time to persue this ivomec debate or write the manufacturer. There are many products made for one thing and safely used for another, but no manufacturer is going to open themselves up for a lawsuit by telling you it is ok. My vets advice is good enough for me. It works for me.

Respectfully

Carol

[jimmy white]

read ivomectin sheep drench for flock treatment in pigeons, america off course, must be differant pigeons there??, but your spot on doostalker about wim peters, and off course ivomectin and invermectin are the same. i dont think you would risk your pigeons,and your own health,or even prosecution if you got it on vets prescription and used it accordingly, the same as tylan , tiamutin etc etc these also have withdrawal periods [as with most antibiotics] before it is safe to eat meat or drink milk or eat eggs, but the vet should advise you on that,,if , its not on the label.

im surprised to read that harkers are the only ivomectin licence holders in the uk,   im not sure this is true .mind you they make enough money from pigeon fanciers  selling wormers,  insecticides etc,, off course buying any prescription drug is illegal,and you would definately risk prosecution

[speedbird]

so is it ok to use then jimmy

[jimmy white]

ive used it , with no problems whatsoever, has any one else,? and if so. have you encountered any problems

[Guest]

jimmy

 

I have used it for years no problems (He how dares wins)

[Guest]

Does anyone know where I can get Ivomectin, Ive rang a few corn shops and they cant get it. Do I need to ring a vet to get hold of it???

[jimmy white]

ive had it from my local agricultural vet, without any problems.

[Guest slugmonkey]

As I am in an agricutural area I have ready access to ivamec ( as we call it ) we have used it on many occasions we also use Tramisul and have no ill affects from either

[MsPigeon]

Here, Here!!!! I agree Slugmonkey. But I am tired of trying to defend Ivomec.

Carol

[Guest slugmonkey]

Just use youre head a little I have seen it administered at the rate of 3 drops per bird right from the bottle using a syringe ( I wouldnt do this ) and the birds looked 100% better in about 4 days

[Guest slugmonkey]

I think this late in the post I should say I use Ivamec for worms not lice though and that I wouldnt use the drench. for lice or worms. I spray for lice and mites I use Adams flea and tick spray it is very effective and smells good too

[ch pied]

hi i use ivomec sheep drench at 3cc -2gallons bath water. every 6weeks.no lice or worms. a microscope is good investment. that is IMP gallons.

[CREBAG]

hi all, ive not had time to read all posts so im unsure if this has been mentioned, i had repeat trouble with lice and after trying the sprays and the drops i found they were a quick fix remedy, then i was told by a famous partnership in my area to try filling the bath/or bucket with hot water and put 1/2 a bottle of duramitex in in it, once its cooled dip each and every bird in it up to the neck then put them back into the loft, for an hour the birds look terrible whilst wet but when checked 4-5 days later not a louse in sight!

[ch pied]

hi  try osmonds pigeon dip , a much safer product ,duramitex is not ment to be used as a dip. hard to beat sheep drench as described in my last post

[Guest]

im surprised to read that harkers are the only ivomectin licence holders in the uk,   im not sure this is true .mind you they make enough money from pigeon fanciers  selling wormers,  insecticides etc,, off course buying any prescription drug is illegal,and you would definately risk prosecution

 

 

Jimmy, its a while back now, but your post on Harkers made me wonder if I'd been duped by them. They have their own products and what they had to say on ivomec might have been a conflict of interest. So I emailed them and asked what there interest was in ivomec:-

 

 

Subject:      Feather Drops & Ivomectin query     

Date:      Tue, December 27, 2005 2:12 pm     

To:      info@harkersltd.com     

     

 

 

I use your Feather Drops product. I have a keen interest in what I

administer to my birds, especially how the product works and any known

side-effects from the product trials. The label information is scarce on

these details, save for ‘contains essential oils’. What are essential

oils, and is it these which delouse the pigeon please? How? For example,

is it by gas action (the liquid has a strong smell). Feather Drops are

applied externally. Does it remain so or become systemic? If systemic, how

does it enter the bird’s body and how long does it remain there?

 

I was also interested in what your Dr J M Ballany had to say on Ivomectin

/ dectomax in the letter to Linda Brooks, the Scottish Homing Union

Secretary. Could you confirm Harker’s interest in these products please,

(manufacture / distribution?) and how your company came to be involved in

the issue of the use of ivomec in pigeons?

 

Thank you,

 

 

Letter received from Harkers today:

 

3/1/06

 

Feather drops contain a specific blend of the essential oils citronella and eucalyptus which act together in a synergistic manner to repel feather lice and other insect pests. Feather drops do not contain insecticide but act as a repellent both by contact and by vapour pressure. When applied between the shoulder blades of a pigeon the product quickly spreads over the skin of the pigeon thus acting as a deterrent to lice. Any lice infesting a treated pigeon will depart from the bird and die as its food source is no longer available.

 

Feather drops have been formulated not to penetrate the skin and do not have any systemic action. No adverse reactions or side effects were noted during the extensive field trials of the product.

 

Harkers have no interest in ivomec / dectomax as these products are not licensed for use in pigeons. Harkers being an ethical company does not manufacture distribute or supply products which have not been formulated and tested specifically for pigeons.

 

Harkers became involved in the ivomec / dectomax issue when the SHU became concerned about the use of these unlicensed products on pigeons and asked for background information and an opinion from a qualified biochemist.

 

We hope that this letter answers your questions.

 

Dr J M Ballany BSc MRQA

 

 

 

I've emailed them thanking them for their time and quality of information. Felt like signing myself 'ethical Scot' and just might adopt it as my monniker.

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

bruno , if you look under" ivomec for pigeons "on the web, youll find some interesting information,,,also my vet will prescribe it for me for my pigeons.not that i use it much, but apart from the ivomec, theres some intersting reading, jimmy