Guest strapper Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 ive just removed five more pigeons from my loft with swelling of the eyes watery droppings and looking like death is imminent im now beginning to think its time for a mass cull this being the kindest root its my worst nightmare now even the race team are coming down with it ,The strange thing is its hitting the cocks harder in fact no hens yet why would this be is it just coincidence ? is the swelling in one eye? on each bird?
blackdog Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 dont think its pmv mate, looks more like a serious respitory problem, im sure strapper will know what it is, keith.
Guest strapper Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 yes mate one eye i would get them checked out(vet),there is a possibility that this could be ornithosis. owen is right we can all describe what we think it is but a vet will confirm if it is, or not.
Guest Dublin lofts Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 we have the y/birds sickness aswell but seem like we are geting on top of it,I will say all the birds we had to cull were all hens and the few that died were hens not 1 cock.
flyingteessider Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Posted October 13, 2009 thats symptoms of some birds the others are all different the vet and phill ruell the veterinary officer from defra say pmv with a secondary infecion now in play
just ask me Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 the seconady infections will vary with pmv a lot of birds can be sick with differnt infections
Guest Owen Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 IB I have read the posts. But I doubt if you read mine properly. I think that there are some really poor Vets out there. I have had the misfortune to have met quite a few in my time. I still say that this Forum has become full of self appointed experts who think they can diagnose the sickness' from afar. Obviously, no one would want to criticise anyone for trying to do their best to help someone in trouble. But surely the best help would be to get them in touch with a good Vet who will be able to diagnose the problem as quickly as possible. And having reached an accurate diagnosis have the ability to prescibe the medication needed.
flyingteessider Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Posted October 13, 2009 owen i have been in touch with vets , this is a forum and people are giving there opinions and past experiances wich i appreciate and although vets are some times the best option baytrol is all they give ,were as im talking to people on this site some with up to 60 years experiance in pigeons you calnt teach that in any university
Guest IB Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 IB I have read the posts. But I doubt if you read mine properly. I think that there are some really poor Vets out there. I have had the misfortune to have met quite a few in my time. I still say that this Forum has become full of self appointed experts who think they can diagnose the sickness' from afar. Obviously, no one would want to criticise anyone for trying to do their best to help someone in trouble. But surely the best help would be to get them in touch with a good Vet who will be able to diagnose the problem as quickly as possible. And having reached an accurate diagnosis have the ability to prescibe the medication needed. Sorry, Owen, I do not read this thread in that way. I thought the fancier was giving information on a serious illness in his loft, with updates as the illness evolved. While I disagree that self appointed experts have joined this thread, I fully agree with your principle that it is a nonsense to try and diagnose an illness and an even bigger nonsense to try prescribing medication too on scant detail, and without sight of the birds. And I must admit that for some time now my own advice has been limited to 'isolate sick bird (s) and see an avian vet ASAP', which I have not posted previously on this thread because I believed that was exactly what the fancier had done, and was doing all that could be done in the circumstances..
blackdog Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 thats symptoms of some birds the others are all different the vet and phill ruell the veterinary officer from defra say pmv with a secondary infecion now in play gary, did the vet give you any advice on the secondary infection mate.
Guest Owen Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 flyingteessider, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. And just in case I gave the wrong impression, I have had a great deal of experience in animal and bird health. In fact I have qualified in some areas of livestock management which iuncludes disease management. But up to now I have been unable to diagnose diseases with any degree of accuracy from remote positions. I am surprisingly good when I have access to the bird or animal when I can examine it properly and thoroughly. I did not want to have to say this, but some of the stuff I have read has been total rubbish. I don't think I would have said anything but it seemed to me that you or others could actually believe some of it. I am very concerned that there are some real novices reading this Forum and will take note of what has been written here. It is time someone pointed out that some of the advice is, at best, just a guess. And at worst totally wrong. The one good thing that could have come from all this awful business is that everyone now knows, for sure, that all their birds must be vaccinated every year without fail. I think that it is becoming clear that a lot of Fanciers are not bothering. If it were up to me I would have anyone caught racing pigeons without having had them vaccinated for paramixovirus banned. They have no right, legally or morally, to risk spreading this terrible disease far and wide.
Guest strapper Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 you dont have to be a bricklayer to lay a brick!
flyingteessider Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Posted October 13, 2009 owen all my race birds are vaccinated it does no good
blackdog Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 The one good thing that could have come from all this awful business is that everyone now knows, for sure, that all their birds must be vaccinated every year without fail. I think that it is becoming clear that a lot of Fanciers are not bothering. If it were up to me I would have anyone caught racing pigeons without having had them vaccinated for paramixovirus banned. They have no right, legally or morally, to risk spreading this terrible disease far and wide. owen, a lot of people have had them jabbed and still caught this disease in some form or other so i wouldnt start thinking that anyone who has caught this disease hasnt vaccinated there birds as we had a thread on here that the vets had vaccinated the lads birds and he still caught it.
flyingteessider Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Posted October 13, 2009 for any secondry infection they give you baytrol its just hit and hope,From what a can gather people believe only uninjected birds can get pmv for the benefit of every body who balieves this all my birds are injected against pmv if you get it forget about it all your birds will suffer injected or not
Guest strapper Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 i hope any advice ive given has helped in some way
Guest Owen Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 flyingteessider If that is the case you have the right to contact your supplier who should contact Pharmac the UK distributor. They have to carry out blood tests on the birds and are liable for damages if they have suppied you with duff vaccine. They will try to get out of it by saying that you did not vaccinate properly. But if you push it you have a case. I know this to be true because I have done it. In my case, I sent a bird to a Lab for a post mortem after if died suddenly. I specifically asked for them to check for the antibodies for Paramixovirus. They found none. So I went into bat from there. The firstt thing done was to check to see that all the birds had had their vaccinations through a blood test. They had. Then they were checked for the levels of antibodies. These were found to be very variable. So I took it from there. The one thing I learned from it all was, that it is important to understand how you should vaccinate and when. These days I vaccinate twice under the loose skin of the neck. Once at weaning and then at about 10/12 weeks old. I am also very careful not to have given any medication to the birds immeadiately before the vaccination. It can sometimes compromise the vaccination. And lastly, in spite of some opinions, I rest the birds for a couple of days after the vaccination. I can not prove this, but I think it has helped to protect my birds, to some extent, from Young Bird Sickness. Sorry if I came over as being grumpy earlier, but I truely believe in what I said. best regards Owen
ch pied Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 for any secondry infection they give you baytrol its just hit and hope,From what a can gather people believe only uninjected birds can get pmv for the benefit of every body who balieves this all my birds are injected against pmv if you get it forget about it all your birds will suffer injected or notthat's the sad fact . the vet's go for a big gun BAYTRIL from the off . in stead of doing sample's the correct way . i have seen this many a time . 1 vet knock's out amoxicillian , amprol , nyastan , £75 a touch . and that's to every fancier that goe's to him . this guy cover's all the base's / a$$ , he is portaying himself as an avain vet . No True avain vet would go down this road , They will TEST first .
Guest strapper Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 owen i do believe also in vaccinating early rather than leaving it to the last few weeks b4 racing. this year as i have explained in a recent post i vaccinated not long after parting them over. this year(maybe lucky)i did not contract youngbird sickness. makes you wonder is the present vaccine ,possibly not good enough anymore and the birds need two jabs with it?as youve explained you have done.
flyingteessider Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Posted October 13, 2009 Paramyxovirus infection Paramyxovirus infection occurs in pigeons as an acute disease, taking an epidemic course. Pathogen: The paramyxovirus is related to the Newcastle disease pathogen, but not identical. The virus is highly pathogenic for pigeons, but not for other domestic bird species. Course of the disease: Within just a few days of infection, both visibly and latently affected birds shed the virus in secretions from the conjunctiva, nose and throat, as well as in the faeces. The incubation period ranges from 3 to 21 days. Up to 30% of affected pigeons may recover spon-taneously after around 4 weeks of illness. Symptoms of the disease: The initial signs of paramyxovirosis are increased water intake combined with reduced feed consumption, emaciation and diarrhoea-like faeces due to a pathogenic increase in fluid excretion (= polyuria: puddles containing floating particles of faeces are formed in the loft). This is typically followed by uni- or bilateral paralysis of the legs, timidity, torsion of the neck, twisting movements of the body, overturning and walking backwards. Most pigeons die. Recognition of the disease: The virus can be demonstrated in specially equipped laboratories by virological examination of organ samples (brain, kidneys) from dead pigeons. Antibody demonstration is performed by serological examination of blood samples taken from affected pigeons not earlier than 2 weeks after infection. Similar conditions: Salmonellosis. Treatment: As with other viral diseases, there is no effective treatment for affected pigeons. If infection is suspected in a flock, emergency vaccination can be carried out in all pigeons that appear healthy in order to prevent the infection spreading (see annual prevention plan: paramyxovirus vaccination plan, starting on day 4 = vaccination day). Visibly affected birds should be excluded from emergency vaccination and removed from the flock, since by shedding the virus they put the remainder of the flock at risk until vaccine protection is acquired. Administration of livimun® and multivitamin EB12 is recommended to boost the birds' natural resistance. Prevention: Only active immunisation (see annual prevention plan: paramyxovirus vaccination plan) protects the pigeons, which then develop a stable immunity within 3-4 weeks.
kev43 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 i hope any advice ive given has helped in some way me 2 and i do not think am a vet in any way ,,the only advice av given is thru what i have seen with my own eyes thru defra or the mafff cant remember which 1 and birds ov my own what i have treated and cured my self not gettin at any 1 but hope gary gets it all sorted and expects a hefty bill from defra and the vet ,,,gd luck gary m8
Guest Owen Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 Strapper you are obviously very experienced in health issues with the birds. And there is no doubt that people can learn a awful lot from you. But I think you are wrong to put yourself up to diagnose illnesses in pigeons when you have not seen or handled the birds. Pictures of droppings are not enough to base an accurate opinion on. Besides that, you as a lay person can not or, should nor prescribe cures unless you are certain of the diagnosis. I think the role that people like you and I should play, is to advise people in trouble on who can give them the best help. Proper professional help. We both know that there are some very poor Vets out there who mislead Fanciers and do not take pigeons very seriously at all. But on the other hand there are some very good Vets who will sort out these issues both quickly and at a sensible cost. I think it would be far better to advise those in trouble to get this help before more damage is done. It is possible that flyingteessider could have saved some of the birds that he lost, if he had got to a good Vet quicker. If I am right, and I don't know for sure, Forum advice wasted valuable time and cost the poor man more deaths than he otherways should have had. Perhaps, we on this Forum, should state when we have found a Vet that has done a good job for us. Then maybe people all over Britain would know where to go for help and advice, when they need it. Sorry to be so blunt but I think these things needed to be said. best regards Owen
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