views on theses products

[BLACK W F]

Vel's arn't any higher to-day than they were 40-50-60 year's ago , feed was what you could get to suit your pocket , real basic, with a dose of johnston's tonic now & again and that was it . Unlike the bird's of to-day , that get everything at a whim , cough , sneeze , or splutter . Take away their pharmacutial crutch and your left with 1 big sick report . Our prob's really started from the mid-late 60's when fancier's adopted the way's in which med's where being used by our continintal cousin's on a weekly basis . Med's at the right time is the name of the game .

 

Davey your bang on the money great post tells it how it is  ;D ;D ;D

[dwh]

 

I can understand what your saying Pigeon scout,  but years ago the average fancier

 

would have given some sulphur or epson salt to there birds as all the meds were not available like they are now .

 

Going back to times before all and sundry were put into birds , teams were smaller  losses were minimale and not many birds got sick .  Maybe birds are  putting up better performances nowadays with more home on day from some 550 ml races but it seems to be at a price.

 

Didnt seem much sallmonella pmv back then

 

thats the trouble too many birds not enough room

[Guest stb-]

 

thats the trouble too many birds not enough room

when i started racing i only had  6 ybs for the first few seasons  and they flew the programe and was shocked when you lost one of them ;D ;D ;D

 

a bag of feed done the whole yb programe

 

 

[BLACK W F]

when i started racing i only had  6 ybs for the first few seasons  and they flew the programe and was shocked when you lost one of them ;D ;D ;D

 

a bag of feed done the whole yb programe

 

 

those where the days   pity long gone  half the time some of the y/bs i seen should be in the bucket not a basket  ;D ;D ;D ;D

[pigeonscout]

 

I can understand what your saying Pigeon scout,  but years ago the average fancier

 

would have given some sulphur or epson salt to there birds as all the meds were not available like they are now .

 

Going back to times before all and sundry were put into birds , teams were smaller  losses were minimale and not many birds got sick .  Maybe birds are  putting up better performances nowadays with more home on day from some 550 ml races but it seems to be at a price.

 

Didnt seem much sallmonella pmv back then

I agree with what you are saying and back then everyone was in the same boat.   Things have moved on but it seems that only some fanciers now know that to get the best from a bird you have to cure it of anything that will hinder its performance Canker Worms Respiratory etc.  

 

 

[BLACK W F]

 

YOU MAY GO BACK TO THE DAYS WHEN dORCHESTER  WAS A 2 DAY RACE AT 360MLS :X :X :X

 

AND ONLY THE ONES WHO TREATED BUT SAID THEY DIDNT WOULD WIN

 

THE REST DIDNT NO MUCH ABOUT IT :X :X :X :X

 

rab can only remember 2 races from Dorchester /hasings  460 mls to me  as 2 day races all the rest on the day in numbers  ;D ;D ;D ;D

[holmsidelofts]

Memory returned: Leon Whitney wrote 'Keep your pigeons flying'.

 

Gordon Chalmers quotes from Leon's book in his informative pieces on canker and cocci. Read about 'Jones Barns' Canker Strain  back in 1960's but just didn't grasp the meaning, or the theme. The theme of the piece was exposure to background levels of a safe form of the organism gives the bird immunity against the deadlier strains, and is like a vaccination against the disease. Applies to cocci too, and when under his orders for hairworm, David Parsons told me the same about my background levels cocci count. This was confirmed last year when my current vet told me I had very significant levels of cocci, so high that he was surprised I didn't have the disease. Talking last years reult over with the same vet last week, he agreed that what we are seeing in my birds 'probably' is immunity to cocci & possibly canker too. I've had worms once, which was down to some introductions. I've never treated before for canker, cocci or worms, or since, so immunity on the worms front looks promising too.

 

On the same theme of stuff that has been around for a good many years, salmonella / paratyphoid has been known about for at least 75 years. And the two bacteria that we speak of most, salmonella and e coli have been around for 100 million years, my book talks frequently of them evolving from a common ancestor then. So they were there when the dinosaurs were, the ancestors of birds, and these animals seemed able to survive..

 

Sorry mate you dont get an immunity to worms they are parasitic animals  and nothing will stop them once they have picked up that egg, the only thing that will is treatment.  if i was to test your droppings now theres probably a good chance you have worms if you havent treated for a long time. thats an open offer if you want to send me some droppings to test your theory.

You are right regarding the exposure to cocci builds immunity thats why you must not treat in the off season. I really believe you need to expose youngsters to the likes of cocci and canker so they can get that immunity but never worms. worms are dangerous and can cause lots of damage internally to a bird.

 

what you have to remember with worms is there is a 4 week cycle all they need is to pick up one egg for the process to start again. every week you put them in the basket with other birds you are exposing them to re infection. once racing starts your chances of going all season without re infection is low.

 

jas.

 

 

[dwh]

when i started racing i only had  6 ybs for the first few seasons  and they flew the programe and was shocked when you lost one of them ;D ;D ;D

 

a bag of feed done the whole yb programe

 

 

you probably still got the same bag ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest IB]

 

Sorry mate you dont get an immunity to worms they are parasitic animals  and nothing will stop them once they have picked up that egg, the only thing that will is treatment.  if i was to test your droppings now theres probably a good chance you have worms if you havent treated for a long time. thats an open offer if you want to send me some droppings to test your theory.

You are right regarding the exposure to cocci builds immunity thats why you must not treat in the off season. I really believe you need to expose youngsters to the likes of cocci and canker so they can get that immunity but never worms. worms are dangerous and can cause lots of damage internally to a bird.

 

what you have to remember with worms is there is a 4 week cycle all they need is to pick up one egg for the process to start again. every week you put them in the basket with other birds you are exposing them to re infection. once racing starts your chances of going all season without re infection is low.

 

jas.

 

 

Hi Jason, I've been clear for worms every year except one, and that was in birds I'd brought in. My latest droppings sample is already away and results hopefully tomorrow, Monday.

 

Had mentioned this anomoly to Owen in a post, about being worm-free without treatment, there is certainly 'something' working to keep my birds free of worms. I think it is a combination of immunity and loft / basket hygiene. The egg has to be in a warm moist environment for a few days before it becomes infective. If the environment is bone dry and / or disinfected with something like stalosan or loft treatment, it will kill those eggs. I much prefer to kill outside the bird than inside it, and I have deep litter, dry droppings & stalosan, and it acts to interrupt the life-cycle, I think..

 

But for a creature that roots in the earth not to have an in-built inner protection against the things it might pick up from doing that, doesn't make evolutionary sense to me.

  

[Guest stb-]

 

you probably still got the same bag ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

NA IT WENT AND BIO-DEGRADED ;D ;D ;D ;D