COD LIVER OIL

[PIGEON_MAN]

YEARS AGO I WAS AWARE THAT MANY OF THE OLDER FANCIERS USED COD LIVER OIL ON THEIR CORN .WHAT AS PROMTED ME TO START THINKING ABOUT THIS AGAIN IS THE FACT THAT I HAVE A 1998 BRED HEN THAT SEEMS SORT OF WOBBLY ON HER FEET SHE AS BEEN GETTING GRADUALLY WORSE,I HAVE BEEN TOLD BEFORE THAT IT COULD BE A FORM OF ARTHRITIS WHICH GOT ME THINKING IF THE COD LIVER OIL WOULD BE OF USE AS I KNOW HUMANS TAKE IT IN CAPSULE FORM TO HELP WITH BONES E.T.C.WOULD APPRECIATE SOME OF THE FANCIERS THOUGHTS ON HERE OR PERHAPS SOMEONE KNOWS OF ANOTHER CURE.

[Guest shadow]

I give my birds cod liver oil a capsul one a month which I find does no harm but helps with feathering as for your hen being of its legs it could be any thing from calcium  deficiency .gout or arthritus, your best bet is take it to a vet and get a diagnosis and not treat blind ,if the bird is of any value if not then send it on its way.

[jimmy white]

i cant see that a seven yearold hen should have arthritis,  far older birds are prone to this, im not quite understanding   wobble, is it walking stiffly or is it wobbly on its feet. is it a prisoner or does it fly out,, allthough c,l,o, [fish oil] can be good for birds, i somehow think its not going to help that bird, if the bird is flying out and has grit and minerals in front of it, i would tend to think it may be something more serious, i would question if you really needed the bird, or consult a vet

[Guest speckled]

:-/cod liver oil is a good source of "Vit,D"which with Calcium,plays an important part of developing,stong bones ,indeed "Cod Liver Oil" had beeen around since the 18th century, to treat rickets,a condition of bone malformation,that arises in a "D" dificeincy. :-/Cod Liver oil also supplies excellent amount of "Vit A" which helps the body to resist infection & essentail for healthy eyes. :-/ It also  :-/ contains"Vit E",which protects the body from illness, & premature ageing. Also "Cod Liver oil" is a perfect supplement,for those who do not get the supplies, of "Vit ,A & D" from there diet. One thing though, do not leave cod liver oil in the sun light,as it will destroy the "Vit" contence & render it worthless. Just a though Speckled.  Me & Vits ah.

[Guest speckled]

Important piece i missed out, just incase some one out there quoted me on it.The manufactures instrustions should always be followed, carefully as "Vit A & D" are fat-soluble & can be "Toxic" if taken in hight doses,& can cause some umpleasent symptoms.Speckled

[Guest]

Pigeon Man

 

Could your hen be suffering from calcium deficiency??/ this does cause a hen to wobble.

 

Very quick cure, break a Tums indegestion tablet in 4 and give her 1/4 in morning and evening for two days another first aid measure is to syringe a little milk into her crop.

 

As I preventative to clacium deficiency I dry empty chicken egg shells in the microwave them, crush them with a rolling pin and mix with the grit.

 

Hope this helps

[PIGEON_MAN]

THE HEN IN QUESTION IS A PRISONER THAT WAS GIVEN TO ME IN 2003,I PAIRED HER UP IN 2004 BUT SHE TOOK A LONG TIME TO LAY THAT YEAR THIS YEAR SHE HASN,T LAYED AT ALL SO WEATHER OR NOT THATS WERE THE PROBLEM LIES I,M NOT SURE.SHE AS NEVER SEEMED 100% ON HERE LEGS SINCE I HAVE HAD HER BUT IT DOESN,T SEEM TO HAVE GOT MUCH WORSE.SHE AS JUST THE SAME FEED E.T.C. AS THE REST OF THE PRISONERS SO IT CANT BE THAT SHE IS LACKING IN ANY THING UNLESS HER BODY IS NOT SOMEHOW WORKING PROPERLY.THE REASON I HAVE KEPT HER IS THAT SHE AS WON MANY EYE SIGN SHOWS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY FOR HER LAST OWNER AND ALSO FOR ME.

[jimmy white]

hi pigeon man, thats why i was asking if it was prisoner or flying out, being a prisoner it could well be a calcium deficit,, its a long time since ive heard hyacinths calcium method, my father, when we kept chickens , swore blind by this. but off course he used to put the shells under the grill for a min or two, and did exactly as hyacinth said, and it cost nowt, you can also get calcium tablets, ithink that is in old hands elementals, theres certainly no harm trying it, i also remember my old man, giving them a smarty on return from race, i suppose it was the suger or glucose in it, that helped, dont know what colour they liked the best though   :)

[Guest]

Hi, Pigeon_man, curious about your hen's condition.  

 

Seems pretty similar to Mistifire's problem, which was egg-laying related. Wondered if your bird has / hasn't 'the grab reflex' in her feet? When you run a finger over the big 'pad' on the sole of her foot, does she grab hold of it with her 4 toes?

 

 

[Guest]

Jimmy

 

I heard while I was in England that you could revive a cock who was not filling his eggs by feeding him blue smarties, in fact on of my old Club Mates had a bird called "The Smartie Cock"

[Guest]

You can also buy Calcium Glucomate from any Farm Supply store, it's very inexpensive and I put a teaspoon to 1/2 a gallon once a week in the water during breeding season

[PIGEON_MAN]

BRUNO,THANKS FOR YOUR CONCERN HAVE TRIED THE REFLEX TEST BUT SHE DOESN,T SEEM TO REACT TO THIS SO TRIED IT ON SOME OF THE OTHER BIRDS AND IT SEEMS TO BE A BIT  HIT AND MISS COUPLE OF THE BIRDS GRABBED MY FINGER WHERE AS 4 OR5 DIDN,T.

[jimmy white]

got you hyacinth, see the old wrinklies are not so daft, i couldnt help smiling,  when thinking back, my father gave my sister a tanner to pick out all the maize from this mixture, which he had emptied on the living room floor, she was to pick the maize out and put it in a seperate bucket, he was sitting on the  easy chair, his feet sticking out in his stocking soles,with a hole in the big toe, after a while ,my sister went to pick at his big toe, thinking it was a bit maize,,,,well ive never saw him move so quick in his life,  funny how you never forget these wee things  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[jimmy white]

i tended to drift in to the past there, but , the heading on the post , cod liver oil. speckled has a good post on this, in another post

[Guest]

Hi, Pigeon_man. 'Le mysterious case of le wobbly hen" continues.  

 

I think there may be two problems here, not necessarily seperate, not necessarily related. It centres on the bird being a prisoner (like Mistifire's) has an egg laying problem (like Mistifire's, although your's is the opposite, your bird has stopped laying) and although it may have all the 'calcium and vitamins' it needs, its body cannot make proper use of them, because like Mistifire's bird, it probably doesn't get sufficient natural sunshine to synthesise Vit D, leading to all the 'wobbly / off her feet symptoms, nor does it get animal protein which other 'free' birds can access in the garden.

 

The short and quick remedy to your hen's problem is just as you and Speckled suggest - cod liver oil capsules, which in a 'oner' provide Vits A&D, and the animal protein (the oil) the bird lacks. In the longer term, the bird needs natural sunlight and access to the outside.

 

I'll come back about sunshine & vit D. It's bloody complicated.  ??)

 

And as for the non-appearance of eggs, can I come back next year, or the year after?    

[PIGEON_MAN]

CHEERS BRUNO IT IS A BIT OF A MYSTERY WHAT WOULD YOU THINK WOULD BE A SAFE DOSAGE OF COD LIVER OIL CAPSULES TO TRY ON HER.

[stucky 1]

Be carefull wen using cod liver oil, it can be very dangoures, remember reading good article on it few years ago think it was in scotlands own, and it was ace fancier he ruined his entire cock race team, with over doing it with cod liver oil. it very dangerous to the kidney and the liver.

[Guest]

Would agree 'caution' as advised by Stucky, Pigeon_Man, and certainly no more than one a day. However, something coming up next, which may put a spoke in it ..giving her more Vit A if there's already an imbalance (too much Vit A) will just cause further probs. Article longish, and complicated, advise read and sleep on it first.

 

[PIGEON_MAN]

THOUGHT ABOUT 1 EVERY OTHER DAY OR PERHAPS A COUPLE OF TIMES A WEEK GAVE HER ONE TODAY SO SEE HOW IT GOES LOOK FORWARD TO READ THE NEXT ARTICLE.

[Guest]

ALL YOU NEVER NEEDED TO KNOW - WHAT A NIGHTMARE !!  ;D

 

I've underlined symptoms I think could be applied to your hen.

 

Too much Vit A in the diet can interfere with uptake of other fat-soluble vitamins, with Vit D deficiencies implicated in abnormal feather condition as well as poor hatchability. (McDowell, 2000). Vit E might appear to be adequate, but interference by Vit A may prevent sufficient uptake, and contribute to infertility.

 

Imbalances in calcium, phosphorous and Vit D are a problem for pet and aviary birds, with low blood calcium prevalent in birds maintained on seed-based diets or kept indoors under inappropriate lighting conditions.

Vit E is an extremely potent antioxidant, and maintains cell membranes. Symptoms of Vit E deficiency include neuromuscular, vascular and reproductive problems such as decreased hatchability, and reduced viability of newly hatched chicks (Hvidsten and Herstad, 1973). Excesses of other nutrients that also interfere with vitamin E assimilation include: Vit A, minerals (copper, iron and zinc) Blakely et al, 1991.

 

Calcium is the major mineral responsible for skeletal development, nerve function, muscle contraction, hormone secretion and eggshell production. Calcium metabolism is tightly regulated in birds, predominately by Vit D3 and the parathyroid glands. A hen bird uses up to 10% of the total body calcium content in 24 hours to produce hard shelled eggs. Variations in protein levels have a profound effect on total calcium levels. Both Vit D and parathyroid gland respond to low calcium levels in the blood. The Parathyroid glands acts mainly on the skeleton to increase bone resorption (that is, it may not be happening = "wobbly" legs

Vit D is obtained from a combination of diet, and natural synthesis on the featherless areas of the skin, and involves an ultraviolet light-dependent reaction to form D3. 'Poultry' do not have a requirement for vitamin D in their diet if they receive adequate ultraviolet light. Vit D acts mainly by increasing the intestinal absorption and decreasing the renal excretion of calcium to increase calcium concentrations in the blood. Disorders of calcium metabolism are common in 'caged birds' fed seed based diets low in both calcium and Vit D3. They are usually kept inside so would be expected to have an ultraviolet light deficiency too.

 

Calcium metabolism has been extensively researched in the poultry industry revealing the complex relationship between dietary Vit D3, dietary calcium and ultraviolet light. During calcification of the eggs, calcium to form the shell is withdrawn approximately every 15 minutes from the blood equalling the total amount circulating at any one moment. During this time, the blood calcium level will be very high. With some individual birds, the phosphorus level will often go up too, while in others, it may remain within normal limits.

 

Not all hens that are reproductively active will go on to lay. Some may reabsorb the eggs, others may lay internally (where the egg enters the body cavity instead), which may or may not cause problems. Others may develop egg-binding or other problems.

 

While not directly involved with reproductive activity, the oil gland is involved with calcium metabolism. The gland has several wick feathers. The wicks allow the secretion to be picked up on the beak during preening. The secretion is then spread on the feathers. In addition to keeping feathers supple, it also has antibacterial and anti-fungal properties. The secretion has vitamin D precursors that are spread on the feathers. Once activated by exposure to UVB light, the secretion becomes active vitamin D3, which is necessary for proper calcium utilisation.

 

If too little Vit A affects the oil gland; if the wick is not present; any other problems affect the gland; the bird does not receive outdoor natural sunlight (not filtered through glass or plastic) or full-spectrum light indoors, the bird may not have normal blood calcium levels. Even if calcium is being supplemented in the diet.

 

 

 

Personally, I feel it may be a combination of too much vit A and not enough vit D (i.e. not enough natural sunshine). Mistifire reckoned Vit D did the trick, would you be able to get a hold of that, or stick her outside in a cage all day 'in the sun' for the next week or so?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[carl]

Pigeon man i went into my stock loft one day last year and one of my stock hens was very wobbly on her feet,She could just say walk and fly,this happend from one day to the next.This hen was in between laying eggs.Anyway i took this hen to a very good flyer and he sent me to the chemist for some calcium tablets.I gave her a tablet for three days and she was rite as rain.

[PIGEON_MAN]

CARL THANKS FOR YOUR FEW LINES BUT I DONT THINK THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH MY HEN IS THAT SIMPLE.OVER THE YEARS I HAVE COME ACROSS THE PROBLEM YOU HAD A FEW TIMES NORMALLY SPEAKING HENS HAVE THAT PROBLEM IF THEY ARE A BIT OVERWEIGHT WHEN THEY ARE ABOUT TO LAY IN FACT I HAVE KNOWN THEM TO BE TOTALLY PARYLYZED FOR A WHILE AFTER LAYING THE FIRST EGG,NO I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERANT WITH MY HEN AS SHE AS NOT BEEN 100% ON HER LEGS SINCE I HAD HER OVER 12 MONTHS AGO SHE DID LAY THE FIRST YEAR THAT I HAD HER BUT SHE HASN,T LAYED THIS YEAR BUT DOESN,T SEEM TO HAVE GOT ANY WORSE.I HAVE STARTED TO GIVE HER SOME COD LIVER OIL CAPSULES SO I WILL SEE IF THAT MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE ALSO I WILL TRY AND GET HER OUT IN THE SUNSHINE AS BRUNO SUGGESTS

[jimmy white]

if i were you i would get its droppings tested,,

[PIGEON_MAN]

ANY SUGESTIONS JIMMY ON A GOOD PLACE TO SEND THEM HAD A FEW BAD REPORTS ON SOME OF THESE PLACES.

[Peckedhen]

Just found this - don't really know if it's of any help or not. :-/

 

http://www.silvio-co.com/pigeons/Parathyroid.htm

 

BTW it's about a hen down.