Albear

Aye used to do that, good advice I was given was the ones that survive are street wise and should be bred off but now if I did that I'd have none left for racing, the place is infested with them! Sore in the moult new one on me

That must have been a great job, Frank Hall I understand was a top guy. I know what you're saying, I would like to just change the wording and say at the end of the day you'll like what comes, whereas you may not have before you sent it!?

I would like after xmas to be in a position to let them out on the occasional sunny day if I could prior to pairing, but alas...

Hawk

I believe what Albear says has bearing of course. Now, as Albear and most will remember and state, is that back 30 - 40 years, and definitely before, a back garden loft house 10 pairs. A big 'Mob flyer then lol' flew 24 and these went nigh every race and these fanciers did the whole programme. The latecomers were mostly there next morning on the loft, at least during the week. Few strays compared to today of course. This was when there were 140.000 flyers. Yes the 34000 fanciers send more birds today, fill more churches and though they somehow afford to keep, can't afford to lose their birds. It was via the Fanciers being gullible and easily led that the Railways became defunct as a means of racing. These that promised ‘Training and racing by Road was better and they WOULD train the club birds etc. etc. Yes they did for a season or so … till the ‘Lads’ could put them on the trains etc. Then it was ‘Pie in the Sky’ and they quickly forgot. These same 'Leaders' exploited then as now the masses to further and bolster their own coffers. They wanted 'so called Sprinters and middle distance races in order to race 2 - 3 times a week and make money. The grass routes were conned into think 'Mid Week' races were a better way or tossing - a Darn site dearer too! So the 'Systems were changed, altered to suit so called sprint birds. And gradually distances races took a back seat. Now further and further, even if all strains, regardless of distance intend are hatched so to speak from genuine Distance birds…. Or birds that have done it! I will openly admit that until recently I only ever had and flew 'Cast Offs' and others 'Culls'. Yes simply because I couldn't - like so many today - I was raising kids and a family (or two lol). Yet I was able to have 'Homers' from all race points and was there on hard and distance races, having the odd swallow or two.. If I could have afforded proper feeding and training etc. who knows I may have excelled, or ruin the system of 'Content and Fully Natural' flying completely. Was is it that many don't send to the distance and try? :-/ Well one is the adage excuse of not wanting to hang around in the evening or be up early next day syndrome. The other is they bought so-called 'Sprinters' that 'WON'T do the distance. Well they won't if not sent and that's for sure. Also why do the 'Location' boys have so called middle distance strains :-/ So they can steal a march on these contrived 'Mid Day' releases where they are held up at the channel so they can pop over first thing and time in whereas some are doing on tired wings, cold and damp after the water and fly another 2 - 300 miles :-/ then have the cheek to say they 'Flew the Distance' Races. Louth etc. flying against the inland lads, the Welsh cracks etc. and claiming the ‘Distance’ prizes! A joke, but that is another reason whilst the 'Distance’ races lost their applause and interest. Then they spread the Sections to bolster thei’ own coffers. Hopefully we will be flying club races sent again by the NRCC. Perhaps a few more will join again Certainly won't to fly against the East coast club elite and that's for sure. Just a good section merit would do wonders. Just a little more of a leveller of sections perhaps? It certainly wouldn’t go amiss. Indeed the whole cahoots of sections want altering and corridor against or with the Winds Points. I.e. Westerly! But that’s another topic. But as for the birds today, well they are certainly ALL capable of 500 milers; I believe that 500 miles is really in real terms at the end of 'Middle Distance'! Yep don't disagree with you Rolly, we could never send Yearlings to Lerwick in Wales either, I asume that is still the same? Tarbes it is allowed though but Barcelona a nono

Mine aren't out form September till April, however this year I hope to take steps to make life easier for them so I don't lose birds every time I let them out, Hope to get them out in Feb/March, I must admit again to being weird I don't want my birds in form this time of year, maybe stupid but I would rather they rested and moped than sail through the skies perhaps because disttance is my main aim? I dunno

Roland I'm off to bed now, not time to read your post cause their alwyas ful of good stuff and thought provoking, hopefully reply in the morning, cheers Butty

Thanks Lyndon, appreciated

Another interesting post STB and I will be controversial and say yes it probably does mean this to, because you breed out of two birds from a 500 mile family they can breed crap too!! >. So I would say what you re saying actually gives further credance to my opinion :-/

I think this is another interesting point, I like others have quoted some performances, and Terry and Roland believe most birds can do 500. Now I don't agree and I'll tell you why put simply waht does the average small team man breed a year 30 the majority of ordinary back garden fanciers wil breed between 30/50 for racing. Tell me out of those 30/50 how many get past 300 mile, and how many manage to get to 500. How many birds do you send to sprint races 10, 20? How many make it to 500 2/3, statistically it shows that not many birdss fly 500.

Mind you they were a bit dissapointed too thought they'd gone to bed with a marathon man and found they were with a 60yd sprint specialist ;D

Wouldn't be my choice in the show pen Roland, not a looker in my book, although she may appeal to those who like flashers ;D

Hi Lyndon the only concern I would have about doing it near the race is that would this weaken the condition when you did it the second time on race basketing, which is more stressful again. So I'm not sure but a damn good method and maybe worth a try I dunno?. I remember being told a story by Graham Moss of Stratford about a local fancier who used to win out of turn on one day races but never won a race where birds were in the baskest for two nights or more. He sadly died but his wife decided to keep the birds on. However she could not drive and the only way to get her birds for basketing was to basket on thursday night a club mate picked them up early friday morning and fed them in the basket at his place before taking them on for race basketing, this happened for all races i.e. basketed the day before race basketing so on two day basketing her's were in the basket for 3 days etc. This lady started winning the longest races every year!!??

Yeah, heck of a good performance, something special!

Do you think you can do a true test of this in the winter, please?

Blaz it's a lottery, the judge will have his own type, if you know who it is try and find out what type of bird he has in his loft and if you can show the equivalent.

Yes I have a cock in my loft now that has been 2nd at 473 mile found in loft with the winner and 18th section nfc 556 miles he is big! But this is I think the exception rather than the rule

Paul you are one of the best at real distance racing and the point you make is so valid,handling a bird doen't prove anything it maybe lessens the odds dependant on the relevance of what you look at, When did you see a beautiful marathon winner, with silky hair, perfect body confrimation, perfect legs????? It always amazes me that the standard conformation given is like that of a show racer except more long cast with ventalation in the wing for a distance bird. Some of the ugliest small hens I have seen have been the best Lerwick winners. I recently saw some Shepherd Southwells direct and two of the hens had tumbler heads!!

I think it depends what you mean by 500 mile birds there are many that will get 500 but not go any further and there are others much rarer that will not start to perform until 400 up to 700 and some beyond. For the proper long distance bird you will find no pigeon will fly it, without a complete eye cere and the same can be said for the majority of 50- 500 mile pigeons. If it doesn't have a complete eye cere it won't do it and I'm not talking about pigeons that come in a couple of weeks I'm talking about the best pigeons. The eye cere doesn't need to be thick but it needs to be complete. Carney came to my loft twice in 02 & 04 when I was in Yorkshire and I was flabergasted that he would just look at them on the perch and be able to pick them, he didn't need to put his glass on or handle them. Now I don't know how but again I spent a lot more time looking at the birds on the perch trying to work this out and the eye cere (and the fllat head) were the two things that staood out for distance pigeons. I've since had Peter Van Eijden's dvd and he says the same and that's good enough for me!! (And my birds meet this criteria and every loft I've been to)

I think someone has been tampering again with the site security, I'm sure the webmaster wil sort and it's great to see him post!!

Agree 100% and I think that in my convuluted way is what I've been trying to say.

Don't understand why post on here and not just pm?

Hi Robbi, yes you're right the thread was about how far you send yearligs. Two ways to look at it, you could have a thread where simply everyone posts, I send mine x miles and that meets what you are saying, a bit like a results page in the football with no report detail of how and why. Or a discussion on the how and why. If fanciers don't want to have debate and discussion about the how and why then I will refrain from posting because for me that's what's interesting about the site and the way to glean knowledge and to test your own thoughts theories. As to flying on their own, Ally Mac as I understood doesn't have another fancier within 50 mile of him but I could have got that wrong (and I mention Ally because I have a great deal of admiration for him flying out on his own to Oban). I think I read on here a while back there was a fancier up in Wick who is in a similar situation? I take my hat offf to that fancier too. Hawks are a problem everywhere, I would lose my complete team if I left them out in the winter, I wasn't suggesting that there aren't any where you live, I was talking about the route.

Hi Robbie sorry if I offended you in anyway, not my intent. Your post really did give me food for thought, what I was trying to say and obviously not very well was that in my opinion, when any fancier hasto evaluate a pigeon to fly across the Channel or more importantly 550+, the age is not what you should be bothered about but whether the pigeon has the physical/genetic make up to be able to fly the required distance. My point is that yearlings if they have the genetic capability will fly long distance no problem, providing of course they are conditioned to do it. Donaldson I understand is the best distance man in the NW of Scotland but because he decided not to send his yearlings across the water doesn't mean they wouldn't do it, especially when on your eastern route from the continent your birds are liberated to come across the shortest part of the Channel and the areas with the least hawk infestation in England (and by the way I lived in Yorkshire for 17 years and flew that east route myslf, not very well but always got the birds home). The most difficult part of Scotland to fly to I would have thought as an observer would be Glasgow and north, Ally Mac in Oban must be in a real nightmare location, what with drag, prevailing winds and flying back into hawk territory over the last 50/100 mile on their own. This may be slightly off topic but I'm only trying to stimualte debate and thought, they are my opinions and may be wrong but they are based on practical experience and a brain that was once easy living in the mensa house, sadly it vacated several years ago! After all that is what the sites like this are for to stimulate and learn. So Robbie I reiterate I wasn't having a pop at you, and my genuine apologies for upsetting you in any way. Winning at 470 is a great performance and I was proud to be 1st & 2nd last year from more or less the same distance.

I believe it is generally a secondary problem (which I know doesn't help), it may be you need to look at your ventilation or over crowding. But in the past I have found if I keep on top of canker then I get no problems with one eye cold. Have you treated the loft for canker, treat the flock everyone. It often comes down to cost, if the cold doesn't clear and all your other birds are clean then I personally would dispose of the bird, however the obvious thing is to go to your local vet if there is a half decent one and get the birds droppings tested. There are lots of testing services available too but they mostly only check for the basics. Though perhaps someone can reccomend a service that checks for everything possible and not just the basics. Good luck mate it can be very demoralising when you get a cpld you can't clear especially when it starts to spread to other birds.