to right jimmy i have frans ,s sales list from 1978 ,coppenolle ,desmet mathys,cattrysse,vav der espt,haelterman,janssen ,the list goes on i believe brian hynes once wrote that it was debatable what really was the base strain of these birds as for ian parsons wildys these are very close to the originals fantastic birds would recomend them to anyone {except round were i live ] bought 2 hens from him in o4 and they have bred winners every year