Parabuteo

Bart, we are trying to tell you guys that we have similar issue's. Ok, the numbers are not the same, but the cause is and this lies at the feet of the organisations who supply the government agencies with the figures. These are the groups that we all need to target.

Quoted from chrissy And why on earth a raptor enthusiast would want to join a pigeon forum is beyond me unless their intention was to antagonise people Have you nothing better to do? Sure no one on here is remotely interested in you and your murdering pets Well any educated person would wonder, have you something to hide, by asking if we have nothing better to do, by joining on here. May i presume that you are of a closed mindset and not wishing to better your established sport? On a personal level, i don't have a murdering pet or pets. The birds catch their quarry/prey and I DO THE DISPATCHING, Quickly and humainly. That is like me talking about you frounce & flea ridden rats of the sky.......See easy to lower one's self to your level of drivel! Now try and have a first world educated discussion or are you one of the group, who does not wish to help your sport.

If you look at P7 on this link, you will see something similar and in suppoert of controlled culls or trapping. Also on P18 or there abouts, there is something on predator control. The chap who wrote this keeps tumbiling doves and many other exotic game species and is under attack from wild spars. http://www.sacs.org.uk/Sacs/Current%20Magazine.pdf

Where we picked up on the killing, was a couple of members stupidly commented on the forum, in a post about what poison to use, where to put it on the decoy bird etc 7 this is what was flagged by the RSPB. You will now probably have BIG BrOTHER watching this forum now.

Yeah, but you mentioned something about the US scene. Sorry if i picked you up incorrectly.

Well surely the pigeon organisation as a group can get something set up in event of this happening? I'm just asking a question? Probably like your pigeons, the raptors can go up to medium 5 figured sums, depending on bloodlines etc. Another example. Someone just week back was flying their goss hawk, when it was brought down accidentally be a shotgun. The guy was gutted as this was a very good bloodline & future breeded/donor. The shooter was spoken to & the falconer had to walk away......with no recompense. As i said earlier, we are in the same boat. Maybe not as often as you guys, but its the government/DEFRA and these money grabbing agencies that are filling the Govt's departments with all their false numbers. The sporting association that i am a member of, activly fight for a reintroduction of controlled culls for the game estates up here in scotland, but it has to be in a controlled mannerism or we end up with a case like the Golden Eagle that was poisened in the Scottish Borders in August. you said earlier about all raptors being killed, would you honestly like to see something as beautifull killed, for what reason, as it harms nothing other that the blue hare or feeding on already dead live stock & is an icon to the UK. I can accept the raptors that target your birds, as being controlled, but not every bird of prey. Otherwise you are condoning mass killing & why then as people, do we get our backs up about what the Nazi's done to the Jews in WW2. It is still eradication be it birds or the ultimate predator, MAN!

The US Pigeon scene was at the front of the spotlight not so long back. The Birmmingham Roller men were caught with parts of poisened raptors, shot etc and it went to Federal Court, leaving them open to prosecution of a sentence and many many thousands of dollars of a fine.

like your own birds, captive bred raptors have ring numbers, if you get a hold of one. failing that, contact the police wildlife liason officer or nearest RSPCA or any raptor flier that you may of heard of.

In a word, "yes". This is what we were trying to say a few posts back. We also run the risk of one of our birds being taken whilst out flying. be it a wild perigrine stooping a hawk or a spar taking someones Kestral. This is the nature of the sport. Luckily we can insure our birds and recover some of the costs, but not all of it, but then we are paying an extra premium over the price of the bird, if it be a £400 hawk or falcon or a specialised species of hawk falcon at £5,000. It can all end in a crumpled heap of feathers. We are not the enemy, as already stated...............we follow a similar path with the welfare and husbandry we prectice on a daily basis. The jibes should be directed towards the |Government 7 the agencies supplying the twisted fact, then maybe you would get a legalised controlled cull or live capture to remove the species imediatlly harmfull to your sport/practice. But it comes back to songbirds in and around the garden & man taking ove r the countryside, the animals don't know any different.

What a statement, pure class mate. this really shows your level of education, none. We as raptor owners know what you are up against. It is happening all through the fieldsport community. The big sporting associations are trying to persuade the government that what information the RSPCA/RSPB & SSPCA is selling them is a lot of gumph. they are looking at performing culls on buzzards and spars, in a way to protect the muli million pound game industry that is important to the scottish economy. But until the government gets on the side of both of our groups, there is nothing much we can do legally. If you want to poison wild rasptors, then don't go crying the way you are just now, when the full extent of the law comes down on you. Example & also a true story. A car was stolen, inside was a land fill hawk. the thieves knew this, but still set the vehicle on fire & burned the animal alive. they were caught, prosecuted and got 2yrs for the act of suffering to a protected species. One of these days you will poison a bird/raptor and it will belong to a wildlife officer or a normal copper and then you will really come undone.

I never said, "Eaten", i said stand their ground & inflicat a lot of damage come to think about it. Again, why do you lower yourself, by trying to run things down by using silly expressions like, "MISTER EXPERTLY". What an absolute trogladyte answer.

Not at all, just that this talk about openly poisoning raptors on here was flagged by DEFRA & the RSPB. So had to come over and see what the fuss was all about. Now i hope that i have been civil & mannered in my communications, as i said, we as sportsmen, both effectivly do a similar thing, we both fly birds, but in a different mannerism.

Yes and also along with pet cats, dogs, foxes and can have a good go at small deer species. So you want European eagle owls in or near your coop then, having a go at you staffy & believe me, thay can stand their ground with the like of a staffy.

Oh man, you sound like a born again christian. (no offence to any christiansment). I was 40 when i started fieldsports and it took a time to get to grips with what i was doing, but that was my choice & i followed it through. If you do not have the constitution to do something, then do not do it! But to make such an unfounded & unproven statement, just goes to show, you are never going to help yourself or the group of Pigeon fanciers on a whole. You are digging a lot of holes for the group on a whole. Again, how do you exspect to gain support with statements like the above.

As mentioned previously, this is a very shallow view and a silly statement to put on a public forum, especially if you wish to have support, as no one will support the killing of PROTECTED birds, if anything, you are pushing the pigeon group into a corner out of the way, effectivly isolating yourselves. This is not a private club, it is an internet forum open to public viewing, through membership, sign in details. Any of the fieldsport forums are usually watched over by RSPCA/RSPB etc for anything to do with illegal activities, i.e. hare coursing or using any form of baggies, as this is illegal and anyone who truely respects the countryside, abide buy the rules. But you seem to be saying *expletive removed* them all & we as pigeon fanciers, will do as we see fit & to hell with the laws of the land. Earlier someone commented on Spars in and around gardens. The fact of this is, that the Blackbird, which is one of the original food sources for the Sparrow hawk, was & is a Wood Land bird, so how did it end up in the gardens and cities? Simple, man has taken over the old woodlands and built housing & shopping centyres on the old hunting grounds for these raptors. Similarly, the perigrine is in the cities, for the same reason.............Man leaves food waste around, attracks vermin species, Pigeon/ Gulls etc, also the temps are higher in the cities, so vermin species come to the warmth. Soon vermin species are established and the wild raptors learn where the abundant food sources are. We all take chances when we fly our birds, whether it be Pigeon or a Bird of Prey, but we don't complain to the power companies, becuase one of the raptors got fried on their power lines or go and put a sthil saw through a power pylon. That is the risk we all take when we fly either Predator or Prey type species.