i use to take some one with me when i needed stock he knew alot about birds and that he allways flyed nationals did well for about 2 years he come with me i never did anythink with the young off them was doing better with my own then i found out he was a silent partner to some 1down the road from me i flown against so was the birds as good as he said or did he not wont me to win him i packed up after that but started again last year but still only beat him twice lol