Jack Barkel

Hello Bewted, It makes no difference as long as the muscle is doing its job of pulling in the pupil. Regards Jack

The pupil muscle always appears to be dark brown or black. It matters not whether it is wide or thin in appearance, as long as it pulls in, that is to say reactive, then this muscle is doing its job. Jack

Pupil & Correlation Part 1. I have had several requests to explain with illustrations the different segments of the eye as used in evaluating racing pigeons. This I propose to do for those members who have shown a genuine interest in the eye. I do not intend to try and persuade any person to adopt my beliefs, I have been requested to reveal what I see as important in eye sign recognition, and hope I can meet this request without any harassment. I think it is time for me to present a project in a series, to explain and categorise the parts of the eye that are used in eye sign, and some in iridology. Not to confuse, we will refer to the sections of the eye under the popular names used in eye sign. ******************** Here we have an illustration of an eye previously illustrated, only we have removed all the granular circles or humanly made circles and only retained the two basic circles, which are the pupil and the correlation. Now once we have added the adaptation the correlation then becomes the third visible circle of the eye. It is however much larger than can be seen when the eye is complete for as you can see by this illustration it stretches from the pupil to the outer perimeter of the eye. Now this correlation is similar to a pigmented gel, in this case a yellow base. It is designed in the shape of rods going down into the eye and it varies in density and depth. This can often be diagnosed by the excess making clusters, which we will explain later. Therefore it is important we realise the correlation is the foundation or base structure of the genetic imprint on the eye. This is the only part of the eye structure which is my own theory, you will not find the correlation written or shown in full, anywhere else other than under my own pen. I take every credit for it, and I know from my own experiments that it is factual. ********************************* Now we come to the pupil muscle which as been misnamed and even called the eye sign or adaptation, let me assure you it is neither of these and this misunderstanding has been the lack of progress in many budding eye sign enthusiasts. We can see that the arrow point in the illustration overlaps the beginning of the correlation, I have done this purposefully because that is what this pupil muscle does, it overlaps onto the correlation in most cases right around the edge of the pupil and because of its similar black density in colour to the pupil, it is not easily recognised. We must not judge this sphincter muscle with an eye glass. It has a characteristic, that if it is clearly visible in width it can be very shallow in depth, and if it is not clearly visible in width, it is most often very strong in depth. This is why this muscle cannot be judged visibly by its appearance. The function of this muscle is similar to that of the shutter on a camera lens, it dilates and contracts the pupil to the intensity of light. So if you put the eye into a reasonably bright light you should see a reaction of the pupil which is controlled by this pupil muscle. The Nederland fanciers call it the Verkenning Sirkel, in English it is known as The Circle Of Recognition. I prefer to call it the pupil muscle. You will find that birds who do not possess a reactive pupil fly close to the ground, and those who have a reactive pupil can rise to great heights and seek a helpful wind that will improve their speed on their journey home. Caution here, thirst, anti-biotic and other medication can cause a temporary dysfunction of this particular muscle. Once again I will welcome questions if one is not sure of what I am trying to put across here. No one in the world as far as I know has gone into as much detail as I am prepared to do. I suggest those interested grab this opportunity, for I am sure it will eventually become acceptable common knowledge throughout the pigeon world. Until that day I will have to accept the criticism of some who find it destroys much of their previous beliefs on eye sign or iridology. Nearly forgot to mention the sex drive in a pigeon can also cause a rapid contraction of the pupil, it will be noted that when a cock bird shows strong interest in a hen, his pupils contract to pin points. I will present a series of examples, which are all part of one particular eye, except for the composite sign which when we arrive at that point I will explain. There will be seven illustrations in all. Next project, "The Adaptation". I will continue Article 2. after these explanations are completed. Please bear with me. Regards Jack jackbarkel@mweb.co.za http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/

"Well done Batusai" a very good post here, one could say in my view & the way I like to look at this subject etc, with an open mind so to speak. "Of cause" We do have our resident (By invitation) "Eye Sign Guru" here & I note ?????? he hasn't as yet come here, to give us all his wisdom etc . Still time will tell, what may happen. Enjoy Mr Tar, I also agree, Batusai has a very good post here for those against eye sign theory. Unfortunately we cannot say the same for you, who continues to have plenty of empty posts that are of value to know one. I have nothing to say in reply to Batusai, for I have no desire to attempt to change anyone's opinion, and I cannot agree with all he says. What I do say to you Lennut Tar, is please cease your jibes and veiled attacks at me. I have had enough of your childish and often silly remarks. We all have a right to our own opinions, but not to personally attack those who have written books and produced Videos and DVD's on a subject you do not agree with. If you wish to attack the subject this is fine by me, but if you attack me in this cowardly manner from a computer keyboard I will not ignore your low life attitude. You may have many posts, but they are of little or no value to anyone but yourself. What a pity you can not see that you portray yourself as an empty Yob of the lowest order. I intend requesting that you are moderated, as in my opinion, you are bringing down the standard of Pigeon Basics. I cannot see why you let my presence eat holes in you the way you do. Forget I exist man, and you will remain more healthy I will not carry on this senseless conversation any further. Once again I request:- LEAVE ME OUT OF YOUR WORTHLESS COMMENTS. Good Day to you. Jack Barkel jackbarkel@mweb.co.za http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/

Article 1. We will start with the eyes of those pigeons who's eyes show a definite regression towards the fancy pigeons that was introduced to the Homing Pigeon to increase buoyancy and speed. Please remember that these eyes in this first example will have little homing ability, but in most cases will be light and have speed. Most birds with these eye markings may win races but will eventually get lost. If introduced to the stock loft, because somewhere deep down in the gene pool there may lurk the gene of a good pigeon, it will be possible for this type of bird to produce a good pigeon. It must be realised that it's mate may also be the reason for a good one popping out, for it needs four good eyes to breed the higher percentages of good pigeons we are looking for. The statistics however tells us that the rate will be in the region of 7% that is to say 93 out of one hundred will be unacceptable for our stock lofts. Many people acquire a winning team and maintain it for a few years, however in most cases the deterioration/regression sets in, and there is a headlong decline to mediocrity and sometimes even worse. I must tell you that other regressions can be found in the increase in distance of the humerus bone from the body, and the step in the wing from the secondary flights to the first primary. Length and depth of keel bone is another variable we must endeavour to control. These variables are easily controlled by selection, but the eye is the most sensitive and intricate of all these pointers towards the near perfect racing pigeon. It must also be observed that a good racing person can win the shorter races with a pet shop pigeon, when his club members are lacking in this department. These and many more pointers go to razing doubts of the credibility of signs in the eye. Please notice that the irises of these eyes are very thin and in some places none existent. They come in both the yellow and the pearl eye, but mainly in the pearl. Most have a good racing sign which is the composite on the adaptation, which means they could be on the front of the pack on a short to middle distance blow home race. The correlations are also very wide, which increases the doubt of the bird competing at any great distance. These variable in the eye are what I refer to as genetic drift, and believe me it is a scientific fact, although doubted by some. Should any of you not be in possession of the names and positioning of the different eye circles, I can put them up on this site again. Just state you would like this before we progress any further and I will gladly put this material on.

To Bewted, Merlin, Slugmonkey, Doo, and other interested parties on this forum who would like to share in my theories on eye sign or signs in the eye. I feel I must start at the beginning with how I observe the eye as well as some other physical characteristics that go to make up the recognition of how one can tell from the eye in which direction a racing pigeon is evolving or regressing. To me this is the main reason for eye sign, to increase the quality and amount of the correct genes in the gene pool of anyone’s stock loft. I refer to it as genetic drift, and as far as I am aware, I am the first to lay down a concrete pattern, that we can all use as a formula for poor, medium and good eyes that will direct us on a course over a period of 3 to 5 years that will, formulate for us a stock loft of pigeons bristling with the genes we are looking for. Remember that the racing pigeon was developed by man, and he used several types of fancy pigeons to add to the long distance homer, to give buoyancy and speed to the Dragoon and English Carrier, to name two of the originals. Nature is continually fighting to restore these hybrids to one or other of these strains, and that is where the variables keep popping up. I intend in future postings, to show these variables by photographic examples, which will steer all in a much more successful direction of breeding top racing pigeons. My theory is not a fallacy, for I have proven it in different parts of the world, and although I ceased competing in 1997, my pigeons are still breeding class pigeons for others until this day. I will start compiling my future articles this weekend, please have patience. Jack Barkel

Hello Pat & All, I do not know if you are all aware that the 1st eye is that of a famous pigeon in Ireland by the name of "Murray's Dream". This Cock is 15 years old and although his eye is fading , he is still fertile and shows a lot of character in his eye. Attachment 0244_7073 is a daughter iof this famous cock and for me, this would be my next maiting to try and reproduce this cock before he becomes infertile. Albear is correct when he says you have some magnificent pigeons Pat, some of these eyes are just about as good as it gets. I will write to you privately and give you a personal crit on all of the eyes, as I do not wish to be involved any more with the childish comments and bickering that arise often with regularity on this forum. Best Regards, jackbarkel@mweb.co.za http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/

I have an idea that Sun Spots have a lot to do with it as well as climate change, and maybe both are related more than the ozone layer. Sun Spots have shown a very high incidense recently, and I know they deposit a layer of static all over the earth that can range to a metre in depth. This static could interfere with the pigeons homing ability, if homing ability can be attributed to magnetic instict. Just another thought on the matter, for high pigeon losses at varying intervals seems to be a global problem and not restricted to any particular area. Regards Jack

Hello Tony, Yes I agree their are many shades and depths that we can call green, this is also the case with the violet. As I said it is just colour enhancement, and if one has a Catalyst eye which is the split gene of both eyes, we can breed violets and greens with consistency. A Catalyst eye, although part pearl which shows in the Iris, also shows a yellow base (correlation). The Adaptation of such an eye is the blue of the sky. When one pairs this eye to a yellow eye, we invariably get green, as in mixing colours Blue & Yellow makes Green. When we pair it to a pearl eye, which does not have a white base as people often think, but a pink base, we produce violet. When one mixes Blue with pink or pinkish reds one invariably produces Purple or Violet. My own strain the "Barkel's Lemons" produce these colours with regularity, and another strain I have managed to give me similar results by judicious pairings to the eye, are the Chocolate Meulemans. I enclose a photo of a Violet Eye and a Catalyst Eye. Regards Jack

Sorry Wiley Trying to get photo to attach.

Hello Wiley, I enclose a photo of a green eye in all it's glory, an eye like this means a top breeder, should breed winners in every nest when paired correctly. Green is only an enhancement of yellow, there fore a dominant eye, but unless it has all the qualities can be just another eye. The colour is rare but can be quite ordinary in evaluation, unless possessing the qualities in the photograph. Regards Jack

NOTICE. I do not wish to carry on bickering with those who have a habit to try and get me to write on this forum. As I have said, until someone wishes to ask me questions on a subject, I have no desire to force my presence on anybody. My records have gone before me all over the world, I do not need to prove my capabilities or professionalism here to a virtual unknown nondescript, or to anyone else who feels they can become better recognised by locking horns with me on a limited distribution forum. Spencer I gave you a chance to desist, it seems you are unwilling or unable to do so. I have under professional instruction, been waiting for this last inexcusable remark from you so now there is no forgiveness or turning back. Now you will see what I am made of, for I am not playing your childish games anymore. To Spencer / Timbarra, I ISSUE THIS CHALLENGE. Jack Barkel, will meet you at an independent venue to be arranged, where we will each inspect a loft of pigeons unknown to each of us. We will conduct this contest on stage and in front of an audience of Fanciers. We will examine and make a computer entry of our findings, on each bird. It will cost myself in the region of Two Thousand Pounds plus advertising and Lawyers fees to make this a day for fanciers all over England to remember and for me to take part in this contest. We will charge an entrance fee to help cover expenses and expect to fill a decent sized venue. There will be judges and scrutinizers to see that there is no irregularities. We will each perform to the best of our ability and be judged who is beneficial and the most accurate evaluator to the fancy by evaluating each bird. The object being to prove which person can give the most beneficial and true assessment of each bird. For this is what I do, which you claim I can't do. My lawyer who is a pigeon fancier will be present to oversee correct proceedings. We will be responsible for advertising this challenge, and see that there is a good turn out. If agreeable, then you and I will each pay the required fee, approximately two thousand pounds each, to an independent firm of lawyers up front, before I set foot in England. The winner takes all proceeds after all expenses are paid. After the demonstration, I will address the audience, before you run off from the stage. Just to let you know I have something else planned for you, I intend to see that the defeat of a bigot is complete. Once you lose, you will be issued a summons on stage for all the unnecessary inconvenience hurt and defamatory assertions to my professional abilities, which will be proven you have put in question. No person in his right mind would accept the silly challenge you keep insisting I am avoiding. For it is not even a proper challenge. If this is not acceptable, please be intelligent enough not to refer to me on Pigeon Basics again. As this is my profession and as I was decent and well mannered enough not to ask you your bona fides, either please desist now, if not I will sue you, that is not an idle threat. This is asked of you in all fairness, please stop this nonsense now before there is a legal case in which all letters on this forum appertaining to your outbursts will be produced as evidence against you. I have been informed your accusations against me are libellous and defamatory, as I have been earning a substantial living by providing the service you are decrying me of, my bona fides will be produced in a court law. I am finished trying to humour your low mentality. Accept the challenge so I can prove your accusations are unwarranted, or be prepared for further proceedings against you unless you desist. NOW. If you meet the challenge, you will be sent a form underlying all the rules and regulations for such a contest. The choice is yours as I will not bear the brunt of your childish utterances any longer. Put up, or shut up, and let this be an end to this silly altercation. I think that it would be more fitting that you reply to me privately so that the list members do not need to be bored with all this childish stupidity. Jack Barkel jackbarkel@mweb.co.za http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/

Hello Folks, I took a photograph of the eye of one of my top breeding Cocks, I arrowed and detailed each part of the eye, then I proceeded to publish each segment of this particular eye, so that everyone could understand the basics of the rings in the eye. This is complete with explanations and published on a private 100% peaceful forum which I am the owner of. These illustrations and explanations met with such great interest that I was in the process of making them available on this list. Unfortunately I feel that there are some unfriendly characters on here that cannot stand the mention of me, so I have decided that although I am not removing myself from this forum. I feel it is not a healthy place to try and make any intelligent input. There are many top fanciers who have withdrawn from this forum because of people who just want it as a chat show, where no person must dare to influence anyone else about any theories, by making any intelligent contribution. To do so and present an opinion to a theory is to attract the wrath of these people who would rather insult than discuss. I am afraid, that to put anything forward on this thread is like standing on a soap box at Hyde park corner. A place for hecklers and none descripts that never tried to put forward anything of merit in life. There can be no progress or value to this forum while people have this attitude. The anti social behaviour of many members, will prevent this list from being anything more than what it appears to be at the moment, " A Bull Bait". It is a mental situation seen in many places. Those who are not part of this degeneracy and have to live with this anti social attitude know what I am saying. So folks, I have decided that there are much more peaceful and pleasant places where my contributions will be appreciated, for this is not a place of regular organised society, far from it. I am not leaving, I will still look in to watch if there is any progress from the rudeness and dogfights that are common place here. Best Wishes to the nice, friendly, mature, and commonsense fanciers I met here. No one needs to be offended, for I am not being offensive as I have been accused, I am just voicing a practical observation that no educated person can deny. Jack Barkel

The last letter suddenly was sent out before I had finished editing it, my English is better than that I can assure everyone. It suddenly went up on the forum without me pressing any post reply button. If this list thinks I have nothing to contribute to eye sign, I will gladly stop giving any advice on the subject. I do not need to take petty insults at this time of my life. I think the comments against me are grossly out of order. Jack Barkel

Roland, I never belittle anyone who has been taught good manners, and who do not direct their ill mannered attitude in my direction.You having been in the position of doing just that recently and are not entirely free of blame. I have contributed a lot on eye sign to this list in an inofensive manner, and I think both you and Timbarra are not as capable or well balanced in this department as you would like people think. Why don't you put up pictures of your single tube eye and double tube eye, why don't you explain the origin of the star clusters you mention. Because you cant', you have nothing to offer. Your material did not show one word of your own compilation, because you have not got any. If you do not degrade me, you will be treated like a gentleman, if you continue to pass comment on my character and demand I produce my bonafides on this site like your uncouth friend, then I will oppose your comments. If the list thinks I am the one being offensive, then I will stop contributing. I have a lot to offer here without having to deal with people like you and Spencer who in my opinion have poroved to the list, that you can't conduct yourselves in a proper civilised manner. No Roland my posts are not offensive, but when people appear that way to me I tell the truth. Now once again I request that you leave me alone. I have only answered offensive remarks against me, since your letter about Fleming and myself. You are the guilty person and Spencer makes another good bed fellow for you. If there are no more uncalled for remarks about me and personal quiries as to my being here there will be no need to protect the principals I stand for. Maybe you do not like me because I am far advanced to you on the subject, and many subjects probably, who know what drives you in such an aggressive personal manner directed at me. Why don't you come out and tell the truth. There is no point in staying on this list until the pest exterminators are brought in, and remove all

Timbarra/ Spencer I can answer the questions and I have got documented proof of my studies through a reputable society of iridologists, although there is not a degree in "Pigeon Iridology". I however decline to provide you with the extent or source of my studies, I have given you no cause neither do I think you are justified to query my authenticity at anything I have achieved. Yuo are just a rude ill mannered prig I did not say I was the great Jack Barkel, you said it and must have either heard it somewhere or believe it is so???? You are really not worth corresponding with, as I find you ignorant and lacking in most departments of debate, and your own educational background is questionable from the way in which you continuously conduct yourself. Unlike Davey, for the sake of the list I will be glad to see the back of you, and can inform you already there are a few lists to which you are a positive No No. I am listed as a teacher and lecturer and was registered as such with the old Transvaal Education Department, until the change of government in 1994. During that time I was used to having to deal with semi evolved beings like you for years, trying to put in what was left out at birth. I have qualified experiece in trying to make the hearts of people like yourself as soft as their heads. Do not threaten us you are going to leave, do it now and take all your stupid rubbish ideas with you. We have learned nothing from you other than how to be rude, ill mannered and personal. How your family can ever be proud of you and your actions in life beats me. I can't see how you will be missed on this forum for anything other than your disruptive uneducated bad personality. I held out the hand of friendship time after time and on each occasion you have insultingly swept it away. I can only assume you are a spoiled brat,void of moral worth. I certainly have proved myself a better man than you on and off this forum and that was not a difficult task by any means. The challenge is still open to you should you ever decide to show everyone the courage of your own convictions. Good day to you Spencer and may I never hear a word about you or your pityful display of feelings anymore. Jack Barkel

Hello Davey, I will certainly try not to stress, it cant take a lot of years off my life for I am very near the end, or should I say very close up front in the queue. But I keep sneaking further down the line for I have no wish to be up front in that particular queue. As you know Davey my name sake died a month before I was born and I inherited his name and I suppose some of his genes were passed down to me also. He was the Methodist Minister and I find I share a lot of the love and good will for my fellow creatures that he must have past down. I would say maybe you and your Dear Father inherited more than I of those good genes. However, his wife, my grandmother would fight anything when the wrong buttons were pressed and I think many of those genes were transferred to me in abundance. Davey it is only in later years that I attained a reverse gear, and I agree there is a place for Spencer and probably his ideas in the pigeon game. I bear him no ill will. There are many facets in the arts and sciences, and one of these is how to put your opinion across in the manner so it will be acceptable to others. Some of us learn this art very easily, and some will only learn it after suffering many cuts and abrasions. I could have replied off this list and as it is the only time we have conversed as an Uncle / Nephew relationship, I hope people do not mind this once that I take the liberty. Next time I visit you, maybe you and I can visit this Spencer Timbarra guy, although he has cats lots of them, and I do not like cats. I wish him no harm and did not send the angry letter to him last night, I thought better of showing my darker side, and deleted it. It is my wish that the forum return to its former peace and tranquillity, where we can all join together in healthy pigeon discussions. Once all list members can put forward their views without criticising the views of others, then and only then, will all forums be an enjoyable place to spend our leisure time. I like hearing the points of views of other fanciers, but they must refrain from condemning all other views than their own. They should also not make reference to religious or political connotations, therefore once again respecting the opinions and beliefs of others. Until then there will be no peace or pleasure in what we should be here for. Regards Jack

To All, I have answered TIMBARRA privately as I feel we have had enough cheap insults on this forum. However I must inform all who read is questions directed at myself, that I use eye sign in the main to select birds that show by their genetic imprint to be good producers and pair them accordingly to their compatability to produce the largest percentage of racer / breeders. To try to compare eye sign as an aid to pick good sportsmen or teams are the words of a raving idiot. I think most of us are aware that he cannot be serious about the rubbish he continues to put on this forum. To Davey B I say thank you for the remarks in my defense, and for being a gentleman in your replies to such a person. Regards Jack Barkel

Dear Spencer / Timbarra, You are once again asking a question and answering it yourself with an opinion that can be considered unfavourable and insulting to this Forum and it's members. I could answer your question which would not show you in a very good light, but I will refrain from doing so. To continue by insulting such famous scribes as "Bilco" and English fanciers in general, forces me to write this response to you, and I hope I am not wasting my time. I do not wish to seem a do good, but this is my last attempt to try and get through to you. This is not a letter of insults, but an effort to point out to you where I believe you would not fail so miserably, if you could write with a little more understanding of your own failings, instead of being so critical of those of others. That is why I make a last attempt to respond to you, to try to get you see reason. You will never claim much respect from most people as long as you carry on the way you do. I would also like to add that I do not make a supplement income out of pigeons as you keep implying. It has been my full time job since 1990. I also add, that I am not striving to tell the fanciers on Pigeon Basics how good or clever I am as you imply. I let others do that if they wish to do so, from the services I have provided. Too much can be attributed to hearsay in your attempt to prove your capabilities at anything. Learn to respect other peoples points of view, even if your opinions are different. I can respect your point of view, but not the way you apply it. It is not your right to force your opinions on anyone. Let them hear your opinion and decide for themselves. It is insensitive to think because you decry the benefits of eye sign, and give no facts or any correlated proof to what you imply, that you are making anyone else believe that what you say is anything other than figments of your imagination. You came on the list and attempted to minimise the benefits of eye sign, and insulted everyone that questioned your statements. You have accused people wrongly and constantly went out of your way to lock horns with those who take your utterances with a pinch of salt. One person on the list started his own thread on this forum, because you had the audacity to offer to teach him about the eye. If you go to the thread titled "Questions and Answers on eyes", you will see that the person although he is no associate of mine, certainly proved to the list he is much further advanced in the science than yourself. It would be laughable if it was not a great pity you are so blind to the ridicule you create for yourself. Please, I am just trying to make you aware that we Old Hands are not set in our ways as you state. Most of us have open minds and a thirst for new knowledge. We are however obviously more skilled in the art of debating than you will be for a long time, unless you learn from your mistakes which I am taking the bother to point out to you. I have never since my first unfortunate clash with you tried to teach you anything about eye sign, neither have I condemned your method, although I have said I do not agree with you. Can you say the same about your references to anyone? I don't think so. I am not in the habit of giving anybody advice unless they ask me for it. I will not push my methods down anyone's throat, although I will defend them to the letter, those who do not want to listen get bored. However the advice I am offering to you on here is friendly advice, that I believe you need. Cease trying to brow beat eye sign people, I say issue a challenge to people you have degraded on this site, rather than publicly insult them. That will prove to me you have the courage of your own convictions. You may have something to offer, but until you learn to put it across in a manner where you are not challenging those who are not entirely convinced, you will always be the loser and be considered stubborn amongst other cracks in your character, by all except those nearest and dearest to you. Please try to stop degrading people you have never met, or the theory by which they earn an HONEST living. Until you conduct yourself in an intelligent and civilised manner, which I am sure you are capable of, you can't expect people to treat you in any other way than they do. You can be a very abrasive person Spencer, and neither I or any other self respecting person will put up with such an attitude. So ends my evaluation of you and your correspondence Spencer. Although I have not tried to teach you anything about pigeons, I hope what I have said here, will improve your sojourn through life, before you self destruct. I have said before and I will say again, make an effort to live respected, and you will die regretted. If you find this letter offensive, as you requested in your last inflammatory reply I will not converse with you again, for although I am not proud to write this e-mail, I feel it needed to be said. Take this as an e-mail of advice, and not as an insulting letter. I had to be frank and maybe personal to make it clear that you are in the process of destroying the ability I think you have to be a good pigeon scribe. Your choice of being a successful and popular writer needs some modification or adjustment, before you can converse on a par with the already popular scribes of today. It is my sincere hope that you do not continue to fall into these pitfalls, for it is certainly retarding your progress. Whatever your decision I wish you every success with whatever is your direction in life, and assure you I have no intention to come into your life again unless requested, or unless I feel I must defend a principle which you seem to continuously abuse or break. I would ask of you that if this letter annoys you that you answer me privately at jackbarkel@mweb.co.za rather than have the members of this forum disturbed anymore by your presence. I say this from the bottom of my heart, for I have no ill feelings toward you or any man, but reserve the right to choose those I wish to be associated with. I remain Jack Barkel

Hello Bill, Glad you are still keeping busy, I remember some time ago we communicated about a South African that I said I couldn't vouch for. Since then he and I have become very great friends, he is a practicing lawyer that flies pigeons. He handles any legal cases appertaining to pigeons that come up for me, and I have since found him to be very trustworthy. I intended to write to you about this matter but lost your e-mail address. I am sorry to hear that Bill Carney is not in good health, he has taken some abrasive criticism in his time, and I believe this is what deters many eye sign people from coming out of the closet. The subject is so controversial and one does not have to be a tall tree to catch some very strong winds. Even a low profile can still land a person in the hot seat. Albear and I, have also been very friendly towards each other over the last few years, although we differ in opinion on something's, we have a mutual respect for one another, and obviously for the two famous Bill Cs in our life. I would like to think that most people see our replies as defending a system, method, or a person, and not of bickering. Healthy debate never hurt anyone, as long as people do not get personal if they seem to be losing in the discussion. Bill I have no idea how to get your e-mail address from this list, please resend it to me when you have the time. Kindest Regards Jack jackbarkel@mweb.co.za http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/

Hello Timbarra, I must correct you for I never said that every pigeon that wins in the U/K is doped???, I NEVER MADE ANY SUCH CLAIM!!!!. My best birds come from the U/K, and they are Busschaerts. May I ask why you to be unable to digest what people say, correctly. I cannot decide whether you just can't help being so ebrasive, or is it just that your mind will not contain what people are really saying. I find it difficult to admire anyone who takes everything they read or hear out of context. It is not a good characteristic, and I hope it is not genetic??? I deny that I tar everyone with the same brush, if it is your intention to attempt to turn every English fancier on this list against me for what I am supposed to have said, and not for what I really said, then Timbarra you are going to lose this one. I also wish to inform you that both my books are in the English Library's for those who can't afford or just do not wish to buy them. I have published in many magazines for free, and I think it is unfair that you could even suggest I should do it all for nothing. I presume my free contribution to the sport will be much greater than yours, yet you question why I do not do it for nothing. Some of us form a gene pool because we can select which winners will breed winners and which cannot by using eye sign. The greatest stock bird I ever bred could not fly out of sight on a dark night, because of his eye I stocked him and he went on to breed nine first federation winners, which were reported back to me. I also think it a great pity that you are prepared to blacken the ability of a great asset to the sport as Bill Carney. He has stood the test with phenomanal results in many parts of the world. We who have had this type of success have been invited to many countries. We do not kill off other peoples pigeons either, or their reputations. I have never met you but it is hard to believe that your mind is not influenced by some other chemical reaction at times, when you sit infront of the computer keyboard. I have over 200 birds in the United Emirates, I had a breeding station in America until recently. I have just exported 12 birds to Israel in the last two months. Isn't it conceivable to you that people like myself and the Bill Carney's of this world, must have a reason for being in such popular demand? I still would say, if I wanted to import new blood I would search for it in the United Kingdom, however I say again when buying birds from the U/K one has to be carefull as many are infertile through the administration of uncontrolled drugs, and that the standards of all round pigeons are dropping with the introduction of fast blow home pigeons. I believe, and this is not an eye sign statement that there are too many do it yourself artists in the Old Country. Of course I am sure there are some of the greatest pigeon fanciers in the world in your country also, it is also no secret that there are many who treat it as a hobby and not a science. I think Bill Carney, will be remembered for the good he has done in the sport long after he is dead and gone. That is more than I can say for most of the people in the sport who are prepared to condemn the man without ever seeing him at work. I say, THANKS TO BILL CARNEY for lots of my eye sign knowledge, I will continue to defend what he stands for in his absence as well as his presence. Truly an all time great in the sport. Several have written to me since our first altercation to give me their opinion that your writings in the BHW are worthless junk. ( Junk was not one of the words used). I have never read any of it , but I think you should realise what a reputation you may be building for yourself, rather than criticising the rest of us on this list, and particularly a great British fancier like Bill Carney. Jack Barkel

Hello Timbarra, I agree that eye sign is genetic, but not just to recognise parentage, on that I strongly disagree. There are many genetic traits that spring up in the third and fourth generation that can be seen in the eyes of birds which cannot be seen in their direct parentage, and which we can use to select, which hold the better genes for stock purposes. I think you are way off the right track, but that is only my opinion, and you have a right to try and persuade others in your belief. Sadly it is my opinion that anyone that is swayed by some of your beliefs will mark time probably for many years to come. On giving a seminar in the North East of England, people in the audience attacked me after speaking well of Bill Carney, after being asked my opinion of his ability. They spread damaging comment just as you are doing, never thinking that they may have been the ones at fault themselves. I visited the same lofts giving a more accurate evaluation. Now I am not saying I am a better man than him, but maybe I used a more intelligent approach. I evaluated lofts in England but condemned more fanciers than their birds, and refused to be drawn into evaluating birds pumped full of medication. I have my rules and would not risk my reputation on a few needle pushers which is what I believe Bill Carney did. No 1- Birds can be judged wrongly by the eye when on ant-biotic and viral injections which is very common place these days in England, for most English birds are drug dependant. Yes I have made regular trips there, and I am aware of how they have followed the Belgians in pumping their birds full of muck. Very rarely is there to be found food or water that has not been doctored with something or other that effects the sphincter muscles in the eye. No 2, birds who have a thirst are also unreadable to the point of much variation when deprived of water while waiting for evaluation. No 3 Birds eyes should be examined in a constant light, for sunlight readings are the most irregular reading one can imagine, ever changing as the sun arks across the sky and slips in and out of the clouds. Timbarra, I do not get challenged anymore, for I make sure I take anyone who dares challenge me for what I or they can afford at the time. Yes I am a pro, and will not stick my neck out just to win accolades. The price to get me into the ring claims a purse that must be worthy of the challenge. Of course all characteristics are genetic, on this we are agreed, but to say it will only recognise direct parentage is not some thing you will ever convince me of, for I have obviously gone into it far deeper than you. The defects of parents and children or the level of health and intelligence are not the same. Neither are the abilities to reproduce their like, and for this I have recorded proof. I disagree with you Timbarra, for there are answers for everything, and fortunately I do not get the story wrong. I do not profess to understand the eye better than Bill Carney, but protect his credibility by saying he is not strict enough in making sure that there are no crippling affects due to lack of understanding how an eye can be rejected one day, and classed among the best in the past or the future. I have not had the chance to question him on this particular aspect, so I can't say for sure I am correct in my assumptions of him. Many people have the capabilities of eye recognition, but are simple enough to think that the genetic imprint on the eye will remain constant. Most British pigeons can't win without some drug dependence, this has changed the eyes dramatically especially in your country where you can hardly win a race without it. One can never be sure when visiting there, whether a great win was from the super health and intelligence of the bird, or whether the success came out of a bottle or injection. No Timbarra, I do not think myself and my colleagues could ever agree with you, and I do not wish to discuss Bill, or the benefits of eye sign any further. I hope you understand, I am not prepared to exert my patience with your line of questioning. Tell it to the BHW, I would rather write for free to the Pigeon Digest in America where people are ready to listen rather than argue. I publish my findings where I know it will be received in the proper manner, and have no desire to irritate or interest fanciers on this thread any more. I have said all I am prepared to say before I attract the wrath of some who think they know better than the professional people from where I draw my source of information. Timbarra, unfortunately you and I are poles apart, and I am not prepared to discuss the point with you as you are on a different wavelength. It is better I discuss the way forward with those on a similar track as be distracted by those who even the genetic biologists would obviously never agree. Let us say we agree to disagree in a friendly manner rather than pursue this fruitless reasoning. I will answer questions on what I deem to be fair queries but do not try to get me to agree with what I deem to be pure figments of imagination. If you wish to pit your knowledge on the subject with someone, leave me out of it. I have heard your opinion and discarded it as none productive, so I have lost interest and see no future in carrying on this discussion. We can still be friends, but I do not think it is healthy that we correspond in this fashion. It is my prerogative to discard what I cannot come to terms with, and have decided to spend my time in the company of those more favourably inclined to the subject. For I cannot see me making any further progress here. Thanks Albear, my sentiments exactly. Regards to All and No Offence. Jack Barkel

Hello Timbarra, I think you will find more free advice on my website than most sites which are just advertising gimmicks to sell pigeons. I answer over 350 e-mails per month on racing pigeons for free. To publish a book cost lots of money and the copyright of my first book was sold to be published in seven languages. Besides those who have not got the internet need to buy the book, or would need to purchase a computer and learn how to use it. As far as your question regarding Bill Carney as an eye sign selector I rate him number one, Piet de Weerd No 2 and myself No 3. These are the only people I know of who have not published something that to me is utterly ridiculous somewhere in their writings or videos. It is my living to write books and evaluate, pair, and sell pigeons. I would never dream to ask you why you do not work for nothing and live off fresh air. Many new starters that I have felt deserving have been presented with books and pigeons for free. I hope this answeres your question. Regards Jack

Hello Timbarra, Just pointing out recorded history that winner to winner is not the best way to breed. I am of German descent myself. Although born an Englishman and now a naturalised South African. You caught me there and I am laughing about it, but be careful, although it is touche I have not sheathed my rapier yet. Regards Jack

Hello Paulo, I think, and it has been stated in reviews that my book, "The Modern Guide to Eye-Sign & Breeding" is the leading book to date on the subject, with many excellent illustrations. It is available from mO who is a member of Pigeon Basics. I do agree that many top flyers do not use eye-sign at all, but most are constantly bringing in new blood to stay at the top. Good fanciers who do use eye sign, usually stay at the top without constantly bringing in new blood. It is my contention that Busschaert had few claims to fame until he moved to England, when the Geordie fanciers and others, improved his strain and really put him on the map. Paulo you are competing in one of the strongest areas in the world, and I wish you every success in the sport no matter which methods you decide to adopt. Regards Jack