debonair.pidjin

The loft is elegant. It would be nice to see the buildings around the loft too. Depending on their height and distance to the loft, the birds might stay on those buildings, and you don't want that.

For Steve Hole: Can you please post some technical specs of the device? The most important thing of course, what particle size does it work for? 0.5 ... 0.3 microns? Thank you.

Can you please tell me the name of the device to search online? Thank you!

Wow Clockman, thanks, this is again, something new for me. Are you talking about a device like this? http://www.minimate.co.uk

I was so happy for your tips with that device and so I was kidding - yes, I will use the mask, of course and I think I will introduce the coat too. I don't spend too much time with the birds inside the loft, most of the time I call them out and I spend hours with them this way. Thanks for the homemade device link, but I am far from handy so I think I will just buy one (or two!) By the way, people say that "open" lofts will prevent PL. Well, my current loft has a full wire mesh wall, and another wall 1/2 wire mesh and I still got pigeon lung. When the birds flap their wings, loads of dust rises from the floor. Another myth - smoking. My father smoked a lot (he gave up recently) and he has really bad pigeon lung. I would like to make some interviews with fanciers with PL for the website, to see how they manage everything: loft descriptions, methods, protection, etc. Is anybody interested?

Oh my God! Larry, thanks, that device looks like heaven. With it and the loft project I posted I think I can even forget about the mask. In fact I think I will install 2 devices just to feel even more relaxed LOL. Also, there was an article years ago, about some kind of fruit juice named "mangosteen" or something like this...said to have anti inflamatory effects and believed to work very well in PFL too. Never tried it, if anybody did, please say. DOVEScot, I am sorry, I can't read the article from your link even if I registered there.

Hi, I am a 29 years old fancier that has "pigeon lung". I never had problems for the first 2-3 years, then I started to cough and have fever after being exposed to pigeons. My father has it really bad but he doesn't like pigeons. My case is interesting because I only get fever and chills when I get back to my pigeons, after being away from them for 1-2 weeks. If I continue to be with them daily (no mask) I just have productive cough in the morning and that also becomes mild. Anyway I don't want to play with my lungs, so I use Aircap model #4 now, which is very good. I am mad about pigeons so I decided to learn everything I can to be able to keep them, even if I have PFL. I read some PL threads here and learnt that there are some fanciers who also have it. I would like to create an online community for this where we can help each other with advices and news. I also made a website: http://www.racing-pigeons.org/pigeon-lung/ - any suggestions for it are greatly appreciated. My current loft is open (one wire wall) but it still collects a lot of dust on the floor. So, for PL, the floor is the main problem. I "designed" a sketch of my future loft... I think that this setup would be dust free. What do you think? Other measures to limit the exposure would be: - only marathon races (a few) - a few pigeons - rarely enter the loft (for banding the babies, catching the racers) - natural approach (free mating, open nest boxes - jungle law, the best breeds) - feeding the pigeons outside on the ground (I always loved that) - open the loft from outside I don't care too much about winning races but I care a lot about being able to keep my pigeons. Thank you for any replies.

Thanks. I got that. A list with all the articles(titles) you can get by subscribing would be great.

Wonderful resource. Thank you! Does anybody have the full list of titles of the articles you can get by subscribing to Winning Magazine?

Hi, I had the same problem, and here's an older post where you can get some ideas: http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1167071163/ . Good luck and try to help the yearlings a bit... I think it's necessary. Some older cocks can be a real pain, we don't want stress in the loft.

Tony, you are right! The thing is, there will never be 50 OBs. We must race long distance over the mountains and very few birds remain in the end of the season. I estimate I will always have about 20 mature birds or less.

Thank you for the replies! PIGEON_MAN: The "big room" is 3x3 meters, with the back wall filled with 25 nest boxes for the old birds. I would keep the YBs in their own loft but because of my job I sometimes have to be away from the birds for weeks, and for my father who doesn't really enjoy pigeons but has to feed them daily, 2 rooms are the maximum I can get. bruno & Back garden fancier: I feel better now, thanks! I had to do it anyway, but I feel better that other fanciers use this method too. Bruno, I kept the late breds with the OBS, and also noticed that this way, the youngsters enter the loft faster and are much tamer.

Hello. I want to change something in my loft and I want to see what you think - is it a really bad idea? If yes, why? My loft has two rooms and for now I used them this way: 1. Small one: young birds 2. Big one: old birds + some stock(in freedom) I want to get some really good stock birds this winter. The problem is that I can't setup a new room/loft. So, I want to move the stock birds in the small room of the loft and starting from 2008, keep both old birds and young birds racers in the same room - the big one. I have a big empty wall where I will install V perches for the YBs. I know that, for example, the YBs won't train so good when the flock is mixed with old birds... but I don't think this is a really big problem for me. I want to focus on long distance, keep a small team and race @ natural. What do you think? Will my "mixed birds" be ok? Thanks!

Hi! As far as I know, for people it's a different situation - the body works different.

Great info, thanks! So, I guess I will stop giving them electrolytes!

Hi. What do you think about using electrolytes before/after the race? Before the race, I use one that also "prevents thirst" in returning pigeons, at least that's what it says... I read something interesting from Gordon Chamers...and I really don't know what to do. ARE the electrolytes good or not?! Do you use them? Here's what made me think about it: "I have discussed this matter with a number of veterinarians including several in the USA, the UK and Belgium. Both they and Dr Wim Peters of South Africa believe there is no need at all for electrolytes for healthy racing birds. As one example, this is Dr Peters's reasoning, used with his permission (some of my added comments are in brackets), quote: "Electrolytes are often included in a vitamin preparation. I do not think that their use in pigeons is necessary; as a matter of fact I believe that they could be harmful, particularly to the dehydrated pigeon returning home from a long race on a hot day. Imagine this scenario: it's a hot day and the race is from 800 km (500 miles). A bird makes it back just before dark. What has happened to it during the day? Flying requires muscular activity which rapidly builds up heat, particularly with high (environmental) temperatures. The bird must dispose of this heat, otherwise it will be unable to continue. Too much heat will kill it! The only way to rid itself of enough heat is via respiration. (Some is lost through the legs and skin but the eventual effect is the same). Respiration causes water loss from the mouth and respiratory system. Note well: water only, no salts. Increased respiration causes increased water loss. The pigeon becomes dehydrated from all this loss but manages to reach home. We now have a flown out and dehydrated pigeon and wish to restore its physiological equilibrium as quickly as possible. Water was lost from the system (from blood and body tissues) but the salts (electrolytes) are more or less unchanged - in other words the concentration of electrolytes is higher than normal (because of the loss of water). Giving more electrolytes now would worsen the condition. What is needed is plain water - as soon as possible. Warm it up, by all means, but do not add electrolytes. The usual feed can be given. But I prefer pellets, as they are semi-cooked, turn into mash after intake which means that they do not first have to be ground to pulp, have a large surface area exposed to the digestive enzymes and are pretty much balanced in their proteins, carbohydrates, fats, vitamins and minerals. All this means they provide a rapid supply of essential food stuffs with which to build up the pigeon as quickly as possible. The electrolytes that the pigeon did lose via its kidneys and bowels are easily replaced by the salts normally contained in a balanced diet. It does not need extra replenishment. I am fully aware of the controversial opinions held by various people, drug firms and organizations with respect to electrolyte supplementation of racing pigeons. There have been, as far as I'm aware, unfortunately no adequate studies done on the necessity of their inclusion in the diet of actively racing pigeons. The often-quoted work done in Belgium by the University of Ghent, came to the conclusion that electrolyte replenishment was not necessary in the diet of post-race pigeons. But their work measured the pH of the birds' blood before and after a race and the speed with which pH (a measure of the acidity or alkalinity in the blood) equilibrium was restored both in the pigeons that received post-race electrolytes and those that did not. (They found that there was no difference between the two groups)."

Hi guys, just wanted to let you know what happened and what I did. I took out all the V perches and I locked the old males that tried to get more nest boxes. I let the olders out only for the feeding time. 3 days later, most of the nest boxes were taken by the yearlings, some of them in the places I wanted, and others swapped places. There are 2-3 of them that are still sleeping on some perches I can't take out - I will do what you also said here - will provide them nest boxes when they mate and let them out only after they have eggs. An older male tried to get one more nest box today but the yearling that has it now was strong enough and after a short fight, the older had to get out. Yeah! Lovely. Thank you. I wish you a great 2007!

Thank you Andy, I will remove the V perches and let them out one by one, and of course lock them in the nest boxes at night. Right Ben, I am stupid... but thank you for the advice. I wouldn't hurry since I love them and would spend the whole day in the loft trying to help them get their boxes, but I must spend a limited time in the loft since I have "pigeon fancier's lung" and I want to live long enough to enjoy the next racing season. There are days when the contact with them puts me very sick in bed. I know I will never be on the champions list but I don't want to give up the hobby, I love it too much. The yearlings had access to the old bird's section for the last 2 months so they are familiar with it, one of them took a nest box by himself long time ago.

Hello. I moved my yearlings ('06 males) to the old birds section and provided nest boxes for them. I kept them locked in the nest boxes for 2 days. After I let them get out, they don't want to get back to their nest boxes. Did I let them out of the nest boxes too soon? They keep flying on the V perches or in the wrong nest boxes. There were about 2 of them that went back to the nest boxes I wanted but the old males went after them and the yearlings had to run away. :-/ Last year I had a lot of empty nest boxes and a few males so they could easily choose their nest box, this is why it was a lot easier. But now, being my second year, I have a lot of (stupid) yearlings that must join the old males... Some people say you just have to let them choose their nest boxes but I don't understand how! Because, a bird will take 2-3 nest boxes and others won't take any!! ??) OK, I locked the older males, so that the yearlings can CHOOSE their preffered nest box but... some of them are just too stupid, they prefer the V perches. Do they imagine they will be able to build a nest on the V perch?? Are they so stupid? ;D ... Should I take the V perches out? Should I keep them locked in the nest boxes a lot more days? Please help me guys, these young males drive me crazy...and I don't want to race them from the V perches next year, that would be so stupid!

My father has a serious PFL and can only go in the loft wearing an Aircap mask. I also have "some" PFL that I feel after I don't have contact with pigeons for about 2 weeks. When I get back to them I have the PFL symptoms(cough like hell, fever, tight chest), but they go away if I continue to be exposed to the birds every day. I use the Aircap(model 4) only when I clean the loft because the pigeons are very scared when they see me with the mask on (and I thought I was uglier without it). ;D I use a simple 3M model mask when I feed them or catch them for the races = lots of wing flaps = dust in the air.

"we" I mean we here, in RO. Although I heard some other countries also have this.

Hi Mike, that is just some bullshit from our newspapers. They just love this kind of news, it 'wows' the people. That "pigeon" was a collared dove(which isn't too related to our pigeons). Picture here: http://birdsofsanibel.free.fr/images/20040411/Eurasian%20Collared%20Dove.jpg Because of that we now have to keep our pigeons locked in the lofts, and I don't know for how long. :-/ So, for now, we still don't have a clear confirmed bird flu in PIGEONS, and I hope it will remain this way.

What about when they abandon the eggs after 17-18 days if no baby hatches? Do they count the days or what??