Defra Licence & Young Bird Sales

[TOMMY R]

GENERAL LICENCE FOR BIRD GATHERING ISSUED BY DEFRA

A GATHERING IS CLASSED AS A 1. FAIR/MARKET/SHOW/SALE OR EXIBITION

2. ON OR IN A VEHICLE USED FOR PIGEON RACING

 

ARTICLE 12 OF THE LICENCE RACING PIGEONS

STATES AN ORGANISER OF A SHOW OR RACE WHICH TAKES PLACE WHOLLY OR PARTLY IN ENGLAND SHALL ENSURE ALL RACING PIGEONS ENTERED FOR THE RACE/SHOW HAVE BEEN VACCINATED AGAINST PARAMYXOVIRUS 1 IN RACING PIGEONS.

SALES OF PIGEONS ARE COVERED BY ARTICLE 12

SO ALL YOUNG BIRDS MUST BE VACCINATED & A VACCINATION CERTIFICATE MUST BE SUBITTED TO THE SALE ORGANISER

JUST BE AWARE A DEFRA INSPECTOR CAN VISIT ANY SALE TO MAKE SURE GENERAL LICENCE REGULATIONS ARE ADHERED TO & THE ORGANISER COULD END UP IN COURT.

[gulkie]

Tommy is there a reason for you posting this from DEFRA.?

[OLDYELLOW]

Was discussing this with kirky the other day , i believe theres two schools of thought here vets say vaccinate after 6 weeks if thats the case then there too young to be vaccinated for young bird sales as only just over 3 weeks old ???????

[Guest IB]

Was discussing this with kirky the other day , i believe theres two schools of thought here vets say vaccinate after 6 weeks if thats the case then there too young to be vaccinated for young bird sales as only just over 3 weeks old ???????

 

I've not been to many YB sales but I didn't see any birds that were as young as that. I must admit to not giving the original post much thought, and it is only when I take the two posts together that potential problems become clear.

 

1st, It's DEFRA that has laid down how the vaccine should be given, not the vets, and DEFRA is very clear on this:-

 

Vaccination schedule

 

Vaccination must be carried out in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/pigeons/index.htm

 

I've posted before that there are only 2 PMV vaccines authorised for use in UK, Colombovac and Nobilis. They have different instructions for their product's correct use.

 

With Colombovac, the minimum age is 3 weeks, plus a further 2 weeks for the vaccine to take full effect. So a youngster vaccinated in accordance with DEFRA's schedule couldn't be any younger than 5 weeks old going to a sale.

 

With Nobilis, the minimum age is 5 weeks, plus a further 4 weeks for the vaccine to take full effect. Nobilis recommend 6 weeks after vaccination before entry to exhibitions, So a youngster vaccinated in accordance with DEFRA's schedule couldn't be any younger than 11 weeks old going to a sale.

 

IMO the minimum ages appear to be to make sure the passive immunity the youngster gets from it's dam doesn't interfere with the vaccine taking effect. So if you try to vaccinate the youngster too early, there's a chance the vaccine won't take.

[OLDYELLOW]

I've not been to many YB sales but I didn't see any birds that were as young as that. I must admit to not giving the original post much thought, and it is only when I take the two posts together that potential problems become clear.

 

1st, It's DEFRA that has laid down how the vaccine should be given, not the vets, and DEFRA is very clear on this:-

 

Vaccination schedule

 

Vaccination must be carried out in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/pigeons/index.htm

 

I've posted before that there are only 2 PMV vaccines authorised for use in UK, Colombovac and Nobilis. They have different instructions for their product's correct use.

 

With Colombovac, the minimum age is 3 weeks, plus a further 2 weeks for the vaccine to take full effect. So a youngster vaccinated in accordance with DEFRA's schedule couldn't be any younger than 5 weeks old going to a sale.

 

With Nobilis, the minimum age is 5 weeks, plus a further 4 weeks for the vaccine to take full effect. Nobilis recommend 6 weeks after vaccination before entry to exhibitions, So a youngster vaccinated in accordance with DEFRA's schedule couldn't be any younger than 11 weeks old going to a sale.

 

IMO the minimum ages appear to be to make sure the passive immunity the youngster gets from it's dam doesn't interfere with the vaccine taking effect. So if you try to vaccinate the youngster too early, there's a chance the vaccine won't take.

so basically ybs would be ideally 5 week old for sales however they'd be classed by most strong on the wing by then ????

[Guest IB]

so basically ybs would be ideally 5 week old for sales however they'd be classed by most strong on the wing by then ????

 

Think there's different ways to look at this Mark.

 

Under DEFRA Licence, the timelines I've drawn show that young pigeons would be at least 5 weeks old before they'd be eligible to be in a sale pen.

 

(1) If that's thought just about the right age, the previous practice of selling birds only 3 weeks old might not have given much thought to the youngster's welfare.

 

(2) If that's thought too old, it's possible DEFRA haven't thought their policy through.

 

(3) If 3 weeks old is thought to be the right age, then there is no way under existing instructions that a youngster could be vaccinated and fully protected by that vaccine at that age.

 

(4) Personal opinion only, a pigeon up to 3 weeks old is protected by passive immunity from maternal antibodies and should be able to go into the sale pen under that immunity. As before, it's possible DEFRA haven't thought their policy through.

[OLDYELLOW]

At just over 3 weeks old they can feed themselves some quicker than others some slower of course , at no point would anyone remove a yb from there parents if weren't fit to fend for themselves , but obviously D.E.F.A has got it wrong yet again but then again most of there information will be from vets / unions and the head of one been from the old pals club and not a racing man no wonder this vaccination / sales information is sketchy and may need further research by DEFRA , imo 2 months old would be soon enough to Vaccinate ybs , and why does this only apply to Racing birds theres nothing covering fancy birds at sales from what i understand , these be more risk than the offspring of vaccinated birds which would have some immunity from there parents

[Guest IB]

At just over 3 weeks old they can feed themselves some quicker than others some slower of course , at no point would anyone remove a yb from there parents if weren't fit to fend for themselves , but obviously D.E.F.A has got it wrong yet again but then again most of there information will be from vets / unions and the head of one been from the old pals club and not a racing man no wonder this vaccination / sales information is sketchy and may need further research by DEFRA , imo 2 months old would be soon enough to Vaccinate ybs , and why does this only apply to Racing birds theres nothing covering fancy birds at sales from what i understand , these be more risk than the offspring of vaccinated birds which would have some immunity from there parents

 

Again, its only racing pigeons that the Law says needs to be vaccinated for PMV, and only those training, racing or showing. No other bird requires it.

 

I think its pigeon vets recommendation that started fanciers vaccinating at 3 weeks old. I know I used to do mine 1 month before the YB racing started - until Gordon Chalmers' article was published in BHW. His Article was on Circovirus. If you look at BHW March 18th, page 21, 'Olympic Veterinarian Congress in Poznan, Poland' 3rd Column, 2nd para, you will see wthat Polish currents experience is with Circovirus. It's the pigeon equivalent of AIDS virus and destroys part of the YB's Immune system. Gordon's advice was to vaccinate the YB as early as possible because if it contracted Circovirus first, the PMV vaccine wouldn't take. He reckoned that was why so many YBs went down with PMV after they'd been vaccinated against it - Circovirus infection had preceded the vaccination.

 

I'd emailed Gordon Chalmers at the time, asking when he thought the YB contracted Circovirus. He wasn't sure, but much later I found papers on YBS which said the OB may have passed circovirus on in the egg, so the YB is infected almost from conception. I still vaccinate them at 4/6 weeks.