bull system

rabbit226 · November 11, 2009

hi ppl i am new to pigeon breeding and i been hearing a bit about the bull system

i keep african owls but dont do the shows yet as i have no experience. i have 6 pair of feeders 6 owl hens and 4 cocks

can some one plz advice me on the best bull system that works for you and what you think would work for me

i have only 3 sheds at my pen and i do not have much space. i have managed to split all my cocks from my hens and i have my african owl hens in ther own shed. all help will be appreciated

thanks

November 11, 2009

I can tell you how to operate the Bull System where racing pigeons are concerned. But before we get into that, you need to answer the question. Do you have one outstanding cock to breed with? If the answer is either a definate no, or an I don't know, forget it.

The idea behind the Bull system is to get a lot of youngsters out of one outstanding cock. The reason it suits me is because I operate the Widowhood System which throws up cocks that can win a lot of races and hens that win as youngbirds. Also in my team I have cocks that are yet to win anything or perhaps they have not won enough for me to allow them to breed as yet. The Bull System allows me to breed for my best cocks while I am able to give the lesser ones more time to do something to prove themselves. These lesser cocks get to rear a youngster which they think is theirs but is in fact the produce of a mating between the hen and the Bull Cock.

Sometimes the best of pairs produce poor youngsters but will often produce excellent youngsters with a differant mate. The problem for us racing people is that we can not see which are the good birds. We have to test them on the road to find out if they are any good or not. This is unlike show people who have a pretty good idea as to the quality of the bird because it is a visual thing. They can pair in a way that compensates good points and faults, one against the other. So the Bull system would not be a good idea where there are faults to be taken care of as far as the pairing is concerned. You could be better off having a range of qualities at this early stage to enable you to select on a broader basis.

One last thing. If you do not have the facilities to keep the Bull in isolation from the other birds, no see, no touch, you are not likely to be able to make it work as it should. You would also need suitable nest boxes so that the pair can be together without there being a risk of them mating.

November 11, 2009

Owen , very interesting topic . Do you by chance have photo,s or pictures of a Bull breeding system or drawings as how to build such a system .

Cheers

Tipplerman · November 11, 2009

Aye. would also like some more info on the bull system. loft set up etc. but totally agree waste of space if bull cock was not proven as a flyer and producer

November 11, 2009

I am sorry but I am not very good at putting photos and drawings on the computer. But I will try to explain how I do things.

This coming year will be my fourth year on the Bull system and although I found it a bit of a problem to get it off the ground the first time I used it, I find it quite easy now.. The major benefit I have is that all the youngsters I breed have the potential to be very good birds because they have a lot of winning genes in their make up. The reality is that, I am breeding much better birds but I still get some rubbish. The losses are less and the birds are improving their average performances year on year. An example is that, all the young cocks that will join the widowhood team have flown the programme and that includes Lilliers. I was impressed with this because the Fed I fly with has had serious losses during the season. These young cocks have done extremely well for themselves.

You will need the following facilities. Standard widowhood boxes split as follows. Two fronts along the outer edge and an extra front separating the two sides of the box. This is an attempt to show how the fronts are used on the boxes ]__[__[ Then you will need six round plastic clip on pots. (round because they are easiest to clean).

Each side gets three pots each, for food water and mixed grit/clay blocks. The clay blocks are crumbled into a mix of Vitamineral and two or three grits. (the hens need the calcium and magnesium to keep them healthy and to stop the risk of egg binding). Then you need a section apart from other birds to house the Bull. He has to be kept alone and it is best if he is isolated from the sight of other birds and definately no contact. He needs to be alone for at least seven to ten days.

I have outlined the method of mating the Bull to the hens a couple of times on this Forum. So you will find it on my earlier posts.

I hope this information will help you.

rabbit226 · November 11, 2009

i have 4 owl cocks but only one is of high quality. i have a shed with a widowhood system and 2 that just have perch in them. i hear of a bull system were you cage the hens up and rotate the cock. 1 cock to 6 hens, cant get any info on this. how long do you leave him with the hen?

November 11, 2009

I can tell you how to operate the Bull System where racing pigeons are concerned. But before we get into that, you need to answer the question. Do you have one outstanding cock to breed with? If the answer is either a definate no, or an I don't know, forget it.
The idea behind the Bull system is to get a lot of youngsters out of one outstanding cock. The reason it suits me is because I operate the Widowhood System which throws up cocks that can win a lot of races and hens that win as youngbirds. Also in my team I have cocks that are yet to win anything or perhaps they have not won enough for me to allow them to breed as yet. The Bull System allows me to breed for my best cocks while I am able to give the lesser ones more time to do something to prove themselves. These lesser cocks get to rear a youngster which they think is theirs but is in fact the produce of a mating between the hen and the Bull Cock.
Sometimes the best of pairs produce poor youngsters but will often produce excellent youngsters with a differant mate. The problem for us racing people is that we can not see which are the good birds. We have to test them on the road to find out if they are any good or not. This is unlike show people who have a pretty good idea as to the quality of the bird because it is a visual thing. They can pair in a way that compensates good points and faults, one against the other. So the Bull system would not be a good idea where there are faults to be taken care of as far as the pairing is concerned. You could be better off having a range of qualities at this early stage to enable you to select on a broader basis.
One last thing. If you do not have the facilities to keep the Bull in isolation from the other birds, no see, no touch, you are not likely to be able to make it work as it should. You would also need suitable nest boxes so that the pair can be together without there being a risk of them mating.

should be the same for any breed of pigeon ie rollers/tipplers/horseman/norwich croppers etc etc

November 11, 2009

you leave the hen with the cock for as long as he needs to tread her. A fit pair will tread in about ten to twenty minutes. A lot of mine tread straight away. You need to put the hen in with the cock after about the fourth day and you will know if you have it right because the cock will fly down to the hen and she will show off to him. There is no need to bother after the first egg is laid. I run the pair together when the first egg is in the pan. When I first started to do this, I used tippler cocks as the dummies. This was because that way I could be certain to know if the hen had mated with the dummy cocks rather than the Bull. I need not have worried because all ten hens reared young from the Bull. The other thing of note was, the fact that in spite of the fact that the Bull was a proven racer and had bred some good youngsters previously, some of the youngsters from him when he was a Bull were lost early on. Both youngsters from some pairings were lost, while both youngsters from other pairings did well. Now that I have used the system for three years, the results are much better. This is partly to do with the fact that the hens that reared the lost youngsters were either paired to differant cocks or else binned. Hens that failed with two cocks were binned regardless of their performances on the road.

If, as in the case of show pigeons, you want to rear a second nest from the Bull, you will need to take the hens, pans and youngsters away to their own section at 16 days. You can then go back to the system after the hens have finished the rearing. But remember to check that the hen is not in egg before you take her back to the nest box. The down side of this method is that the cycle takes about a week or so longer than the natural way, but you will still end up with a lot of high class youngsters. And it allows you to buy in one very high quality cock rather than spreading your finance over several birds. I bought a bird that had won several Fed positions to start off with. I then mated him to the birds bred from my previous best birds and I had my upgrade straight away.

rabbit226 · November 12, 2009

do they only need to breed once

November 12, 2009

No, they can breed all the year if you organise things. When the first round are 16 days take the hens and youngsters away before they start mating for the second round. Let the hens finish the job of rearing and leave the dummy cocks alone. Then when the youngsters are 25 days you start the process all over again. The youngsters will be weaned and the hens will be willing to mate again. The one very imortant thing is the check the hen to make sure she is not in egg to the dummy cock. If she is, just let her lay and give her a little time to recover, and off you go again.

I think that this is a great way to produce a lot of well bred pigeons to get you started. After you have gone to all this trouble, I think it is important to give the youngsters road work. That way you will know which hens are of use as breeders and which will not be. Not all the hens will be good enough and some will just not click with that particular cock.

November 14, 2009

although this system works well for homers and maybe some of the esy to breed fancy flyers i would not recomend it on fancy breeds of pigeons especially short beaked breeds its to unreliable leave this system to homers it is ideal for a super dooper high priced cock bird bought for zillions to maxamise the offspring to sell or to fly but not for african owls

pick the best four hens out and pair them to the cocks and have a normal 4 on four pairing once you learn a little more about the breed you can then do a little bit experimenting like swapping the hens or useing the other two spares

neil