Guest strapper Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 Sorry for delay Rob,i was of the opinion that you and Gavin were in with a shout and when i spoke to him earlier the first thing he said was that did you win it? I thought both of you were in with a chance and take nothing away from the winners as it is always down to the judges and the performances that were top drawer,but i was not aware that your combine performances were not eligable and i think Gail will clarify all when she has time. With the Welsh North Road taking all the trophys maybe we have missed something.? Neil rob...no good jumping to asumptions over what could be seen as sour grapes. i think you and others have to get over this thing about the welsh north road and move on. i friendly suggest, anyone who disagrees with the discissions on the trophys,to put up your performances that was entered and we can judge for our selves..meaning any eligible performances.!! im not taking away the good performances that were in the combine but asuming what you or anyone else thinks... does not mean its what went on. gail now has clarified it so now is the time to move on and concentrate on next season...im sure we all have enough to get on with without jumping the gun, and bringing up old wounds about different feds. welldone to the performances that was achieved up in the combine.
Guest tom123 Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 i still cant see how a position gained in a non affiliated organisation to the whpu can qualify for an award , yes the nationl position fed position and club position but like i said if im wrong i stand corrected
Guest Rhondda RedFox Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 Its not a case of sour grapes at all, performances speak for themselves!! Bird details below, "Licenced to Thrill" Lillers 270 Miles 1st Club, 1st Fed - 2,134 birds 1st Section, 2nd Open Welsh South East Nat - 2,690 birds 1st Section, 1st Open Welsh South East Combine - 5,427 birds Brussels 352 Miles - (2 weeks later) 1st Club, 1st Fed - 1,035 birds 1st URF 2B Club 1st Section, 1st Open Welsh South East Nat - 1,610 birds 1st Section, 1st Open Welsh South East Combine - 2,906 birds As you can see possibly the best bird in Wales this year!! Judge for yourself!
Albear Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 Its not a case of sour grapes at all, performances speak for themselves!! Bird details below, "Licenced to Thrill" Lillers 270 Miles 1st Club, 1st Fed - 2,134 birds 1st Section, 2nd Open Welsh South East Nat - 2,690 birds 1st Section, 1st Open Welsh South East Combine - 5,427 birds Brussels 352 Miles - (2 weeks later) 1st Club, 1st Fed - 1,035 birds 1st URF 2B Club 1st Section, 1st Open Welsh South East Nat - 1,610 birds 1st Section, 1st Open Welsh South East Combine - 2,906 birds As you can see possibly the best bird in Wales this year!! Judge for yourself! Fantsatic performance , what a pigeon to be proud of. However I do seem to remember when Taffy Bowen gave the trophy he specified under 300 mile (was it Edwards bros of Penywaun that won the first?? ). Could this be changed by proposal at the AGM, I'm not sure? This was the wish of a great man would you want to overturn not knowing his feelings? However I'm sure Bill would have wanted the best YB in 2009 to have won the trophy he bequeathed.
Albear Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 i still cant see how a position gained in a non affiliated organisation to the whpu can qualify for an award , yes the nationl position fed position and club position but like i said if im wrong i stand corrected I think Gail above has shown you are wrong? All combine positions considered?
Guest tom123 Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 like i say i was apparently wrong so i stand corrected
Guest strapper Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 I think Gail above has shown you are wrong? All combine positions considered? hi alan m8...i think that it would be wrong for a non whpu affiliation to compete for a trophy ,if that affiliation is not a member of the whpu...even if ruled by the whpu because of country status. if the birds are in a fully paid up federation of the whpu, then i cant see a problem for the birds mentioned that didnt win a trophy to do so...the whole thing falls apart if they are not memnbers. if the rules are not clear then i should think they need to be addressed as soon as the next agm comes around..there is nothing worst than unclear rules and regulations...as everyone knows how much trouble this can cause. the performance of the birds mentioned is fabulous , and should not go unrewarded....cos i wouldnt like a bird of mine to go through the same. but if a bird is not eligible then im afraid its like having 1 number off the jackpot..you dont get star prize . personally i feel that all birds in the principality run by whpu rules should be eligible and should also be members..the combine resigning from the whpu could unknowningly have robbed these great performances from gaining recognition they deserve. if this is the case then i feel sorry for the fanciers concerned.
Guest strapper Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 something ive just noticed ..was the queens cup won from performances on the north or south east? ie preece bros and son...? because the performances of the preece bros put on was from the south east
pjc Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 With all region awards, there are many top performances put up by fanciers who don't make a claim for an award. Should an individual have to make a claim or should the birds be submitted by clubs, fed's etc?
Guest strapper Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 With all region awards, there are many top performances put up by fanciers who don't make a claim for an award. Should an individual have to make a claim or should the birds be submitted by clubs, fed's etc? i mirror your post exactly phil...i think you have to make the claim yourself...i know one person who would undoubtly deserve an award ...who has won nationals for the last few years and even topped the fed on MORE than one occasion.,,,that doesnt bother.
maxwell Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 Hi Neil, What do you think?? What has happened to all the Welsh Combine winners this year?? It will be interesting to see the performances of the Taffy Bowen trophy winner as our double combine winner was in for that as well. With birdage from Lillers approx 5,500 and Brussels just under 3,000.. I would have thought that Gav's Bonn winner was worthy of at least one of the trophy's as well, if he entered it?? Very strange, I wonder who judged it this year? Unless it has changed from when we won them your Brussels result would not be eligible for the Taffy Bowen Trophy
maxwell Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 ;D ;D ;D when i wrote above reply i had not read all the post,s just been through them seen that Gail had already posted, better late than never springs to mind
Albear Posted October 24, 2009 Report Posted October 24, 2009 hi alan m8...i think that it would be wrong for a non whpu affiliation to compete for a trophy ,if that affiliation is not a member of the whpu...even if ruled by the whpu because of country status. if the birds are in a fully paid up federation of the whpu, then i cant see a problem for the birds mentioned that didnt win a trophy to do so...the whole thing falls apart if they are not memnbers. if the rules are not clear then i should think they need to be addressed as soon as the next agm comes around..there is nothing worst than unclear rules and regulations...as everyone knows how much trouble this can cause. the performance of the birds mentioned is fabulous , and should not go unrewarded....cos i wouldnt like a bird of mine to go through the same. but if a bird is not eligible then im afraid its like having 1 number off the jackpot..you dont get star prize . personally i feel that all birds in the principality run by whpu rules should be eligible and should also be members..the combine resigning from the whpu could unknowningly have robbed these great performances from gaining recognition they deserve. if this is the case then i feel sorry for the fanciers concerned. Hi Paul, I think we are getting into technicalities now and so be it because often though as fanciers we complain about them, they are essential in areas where there are disputes like this. Now the constitution of the WHU may have changed and of the combine since my involvement nearly 40 years ago, so I apologise if things have changed. The WHU is (was) formed by its member federations. The Welsh Combine is a combination of federations joined together to give bigger better racing to its members. Now I note Tom says the Combine resigned from the WHPU. This suggests that the Welsh Combine had been recognised a s federation and therefore a member of the WHU management committee. I find it hard to comprehend that the WHU would allow an organisation that is purely a collective of its own management committee to be a member of that management committee. If that has happened I am sure that would be lost on legal challenge. So the statement that the Welsh Combine left the WHU seems a contradiction in terms. The second important technicality is that any member of the WHU can compete for the Taffy Bowen trophy in races run under the WHUSo any fancier racing with a Welsh Fed could apply. The fact that the fed got together with other feds to produce a biger more prestigios race is not such an issue, EXCEPT that instead of being 1st from 2000 irds he could now claim to be 1st from 8000 birds. Would it need a Combine result to allow this fancy to make such a claim? I don't think so. On the day if there are half a dozen Welsh feds racing from the same racepoint liberated at the same time. The fancier would only need to acquire the fed result for each one and submit with his claim that his bird was the first recorded from 8000 pigeons liberated at x race point. Unless the constitution has changed, the relevance of the combine's staus is irrelevant provided evry fed that competed is an affiliated member of the WHU. As I say it's nearly 40 years since I attended the WNRF management meeting to discuss the reforming of the Welsh Combine in the early 70's, so I appreciate I may be way off the mark and would welcome someone putting me straight on how the constitution and fundemental principles have changed.
Tenny Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 Its not a case of sour grapes at all, performances speak for themselves!! Bird details below, "Licenced to Thrill" Lillers 270 Miles 1st Club, 1st Fed - 2,134 birds 1st Section, 2nd Open Welsh South East Nat - 2,690 birds 1st Section, 1st Open Welsh South East Combine - 5,427 birds Brussels 352 Miles - (2 weeks later) 1st Club, 1st Fed - 1,035 birds 1st URF 2B Club 1st Section, 1st Open Welsh South East Nat - 1,610 birds 1st Section, 1st Open Welsh South East Combine - 2,906 birds As you can see possibly the best bird in Wales this year!! Judge for yourself! Best Bird in Wales IN 2009 IMO! Let me know Rob when to drop the pair of rings over! LOL
Guest tom123 Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 i may be dull i dont know but how can a position gained in an outside organisation be mentioned when applying for an award that they havent paid a contribution too ?
pjc Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 like you Tom I may also be dull but as the claim is made by the member then if the member is a paid up member of the WHPU then surely it doesn't matter who the race is flown with. Do you think a member of the WHPU winning Bacelona international shouldn't be entitled to make a claim?
Guest tom123 Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 no my impresstion was that a pigeons performance outside races flow under whpu which the combine has all organisations have to pay a fee to the union aint has they aint members of the union shouldnt be added to the achiements when applying for awards if what you are saying is right why aint the south road membership applying for honours they have whpu members ? this is jjust my outlook on it like i say i amy be wrong prob am but its my view
Guest Rhondda RedFox Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 Just heard an interesting bit of news. Lovell Bros won the Taffy Bowen trophy last year the the pigeons MAIN performance was 1st Nat Brussels - 330 miles? Gail/Tom - can you sehd any light? I think the question was asked regarding mileage at the time and the person was told "the mileage is not set in stone" Anyone heard the same?
Guest tom123 Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 cant help you rob one for gail lol
Guest Rhondda RedFox Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 Come on Tom wrack your brain!! Perhaps it would help if you could access your old website and have a look. Gail - can you confirm please.
pjc Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 not realy one to dump on Gail, she only works there/holds the place together and the result isn't her decision!
Guest Rhondda RedFox Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 PJC - if the pigeon wasn't entered because the race was over 300 mile yet it was allowed the year before then Gail is the only person who can answer this as the secretary.
maxwell Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 The Taffy Bowen Trophy Champion Sprinter of Wales 0 to 300 miles, JOD Trophy Champion Young Bird of Wales, Queens Cup Champion Pigeon over 300miles and as far as i know it has never been any different, pigeon racing in Wales is a shambles glad im out of it, never thought id say that. If there was not so many different Nationals and different organisations perhaps the judging of the WHPU Trophy,s would be a lot simpler lets be honest some of the past WHPU trophy winners were flying against 9000 birds from Thurso and in excess of 18,000 in the Sprint Catagory now im not saying the big birdage made them any better winners but what i am saying is in those days the birds were all competed against each other not as it is these days when you get several different races for people to chew over when they are having to decide what bird is the best:( :( ps I cant remember the guys name he flew in Grange town Cardiff he had a cock that was 1st Fed Carlile & 1st Fed Roslin Park i can remember thinking at the time it would be a strong contender for the Taffy Bowen Trophy but it was not entered as he was flying over 300 mile from Roslin Park.
Guest Rhondda RedFox Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 Alan appreciate what you are saying, however, its not one rule for one and another rule for someone else. If it was allowed last year, this year should be no different.. That's my point here.
maxwell Posted October 25, 2009 Report Posted October 25, 2009 I agree with what you say and thats why i mentioned the Cardiff pigeon.
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