birds of prey

[Guest]

I think the piece of research you speak about is the SHU / SNH Raptor Research a couple of years back, Mealybar.  

 

The SHU subsequently issued a statement distancing itself from the findings as the study scope had been changed without their knowledge or agreement, and the smaller sampling meant the findings were seriously skewed / flawed. RSPB still likes to quote these figures though.   >

 

I take what you say that you feel the losses are down to hawk attacks. For losses to be on such a scale, every batch from every liberation from every race point in the UK would require to be attacked. Much the same defence applies to those who would argue losses are due to 'shooting'...there would need to be an army out there every race day. And birds that can't home...Fed winner one week, dropped the next disproves that.

 

I'd say some losses are undoubtedly 'hawk' attacks, especially amongst birds forced to 'race' or 'train' through known hawk infested areas. The majority of these losses are most probably down to our racing (and training) methods. Unless and until we have a right good look at these methods - we'll never know for certain.  :-/

 

 

[Guest]

In relation to the RSPB's survey, what they dont reallise is that when a hawk attacks them when they are training or racing that it scatters them all other the place and YBS just keep flying until they cant fly any more!! Surely if the Queen is losing birds, she could have a word with the RSPB, Ill av to give a ring LOL.

[Guest]

Don't want to dwell too much on this one.  

 

One of the things that strikes me (bad pun) is the 'never see again' syndrome. Irrespective of the reason for birds going adrift, but lets assume for this forum that its a peregrine attack, one of the factors I think we all forget is that we are all on an island. The terrified birds could find themself 'out of land' pretty quickly.

 

My nephew works on oil rigs. He tells me in the North Sea UK Sector, 'small' birds are chased out to sea and followed by hawks. The rig he was on recently had a resident owl and a 'hawk'. Don't know which kind of hawk it is, but he tells me it decapitates its prey.

 

 

[Guest]

I think one day GPS will play a big part in Pigeon Racing and we will be able to track where they are. I know they have experimented this in some countries. That would give a good idea of how many end up in hawks nests etc. It would be mad watching a screen and watching your bird making its way home (or going the wrong way) and seeing how far they go over the top.

[Guest]

Wish we had GPS now, Sbelbin.    

 

It would help take a lot of the guessing out of what goes on on race days. It would be useful to know for certain what line the birds ACTUALLY strike in given conditions.

 

And maybe we could use that information to come up with an 'all' weather training plan, including 300 foot flashing neon signs 'NORTH WEST FEDERATION PIGEONS BREAK HERE'.  ;D  ;D   ;D

 

 

[mealybar]

Thanks Bruno, knew I'd read it somewhere.

[Guest]

In a previous posting the use of ivomectin being used to elimanate lice from the pigeons was also bad for hawks was discussed, i believe that it does have an adverse effect on the hawk by tainting the meat of the pigeon(make the meat toxic) thus having an effect on the hawk,two years ago i was plagued with sparrow and peregrine hawks,they even attacked the pigeons whilst in the bath the strike rate was such i had to keep them in for days at at a time,a fancier from the carlise area put me on to this for cureing chest mites and he also told me it will help your hawk problem,well about the same time a pair of carrion crows starting nesting in the trees next to the loft and they can fairly chase the hawks away,what the bottom line is why do we not all try ivomectin were the hawk problem is a problem and see if this does prevent them attacking our pigeons as it would appear no one listens to our plea for a reduction in the hawk population.were all hawks indigenous to these shores or were they introduced by the norman invadors?the poor hedgehog is suffering the hands of the RSPB in the outer hebrides at the moment,poor little mites.

[THE FIFER]

i do not think in this day and age the RSPB need to put out any kind of feeding for the HAWKS WE THE PIGEON FANCIER give them all the food they need.and with all the street pigeons and wood pigeons they will never go short.even after racing pigeons become a thing of the past.

[Guest]

Lindsay, I noticed a 'campaign' trying to gather strength in the pages of the BHW on using Ivomec as a hawk deterrent or kill. Two schools of thought, depending on which side of the legal divide you want to be on.  

 

First and foremost, the company that produce Ivomec do NOT produce any products for use in birds. Secondly, Ivomec is produced as a wormer for use in cattle. Its got absolutely nothing to do with lice or pigeons. Misuse the product at your own and your birds' peril.

 

Now, I for one would like a solution to the 'hawk problem' that works. Having a hawk attack and kill one of my birds only to leave the carcase because it didn't like the taste solves nothing in my book. Attacks on our birds will still continue, because the 'hawk' is wholly indiscriminate...it obeys the equal opportunities legislation...if it flies, (all pigeons fly) its food.

 

Fifer, I'm about 90% in agreement with you, except for the food bit. If what we believe is correct, that there are more predators than prey, then we are simply bolstering a depleting larder. 'Do nothing' CHANGES NOTHING. Another person from the BHW has been advocating for years to keep the birds in for a 'season'. In my book, it's a much better strategy than Ivomec - and it has a much better chance of working the way we want it to work.

 

 

 

[Guest shadow]

I for one would be willing to keep my birds in for a season to deprive the hawks of food as it is mine do not go out after the racing  season ends until  the moult is finished then only one day per week to keep their muscle tone up. During moulting the bath is put in the loft every sunday the same day they have a bath during racing season.

 

fly hard fly fair.

[jimmy white]

ive read all these posts very carefully and am quite sure,that according to all these posts proove the point of the very first post, who is talking sense and who is taking nonsense, its very easy to see that the so called hawk expert is talking complete rubish, can the rspb not see this, and get an expert, that can tell the truth, and be honest, is that too much to ask for

[Guest]

Jimmy

 

The RSPB have been talking through the crack of their butt holes for years and duping the public on their so called "Flag Days".  How sweet of them standing in the street with their collecting boxes with pretty pictures of songbirds, when they are using the money the pubic generously donate to what they think is a good cause, bullcrap, most of the money they solicit goes into the rearing of their precious raptors who are killing off the pretty song birds.

 

What you guys over there need to do is find out when their next local flag day is and picket their collectors, every picture tells a story and I'm sure you guys can come up with photographs of what these scum of the sky do to our birds and song birds, paste these pictures on a board and stand next to the collectors and bring these facts to the attention of Joe and Jane Public, maybe they will think twice about donating.

[THE FIFER]

bruno i agree keeping our birds in would take away the main sourse of food for the hawks, but there is plenty more out there for them, have a look at www.fiferpigeons.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk and look in my photo page 2, a hawk feeding on a wood pigeon in a friends back garden,you go to my photos first the click on page 2, have a look at the whole site be better,  i also have an article on the news in pigeon basics, regarding the sport and hawks all the best

                           THE FIFER

[bill_bennie]

I found this add on another site. Is this beleivable,,,,any comment's?

 

The solution against birds of prey...

Aren't they a great nuisance to anyone? Birds of prey, particulary sparrow hawks and hawks. According to insiders 70% of the pigeons are beaten by sparrow hawks and 30% by hawks. More than 20 years these birds have been protected (very important for fauna and nature). Shooting, catching or killing of birds of prey is prohibited (and not necessary).

Is there anything to do about it? YES!!

The biggest natural enemy of birds of prey is the Oehoe!!! This album contains sounds of the Oehoe in search for food. Because of this the birds of prey will leave their nesting ground and environment. As a result of this the birds of prey will leave their surroundings in search of food and keeping pigeons will become more pleasant in your neighbourhood.

Play this album whenever you have your young pigeons flying around their shelter. Do it for a period of some weeks and you will be surprised of the impact of it.

Repeat this action once a week.

The volume doesn't need to be very loud, because the hearing of birds is much more bigger than that of a human being.

 

 

 

Yours in the Sport - Bill.

[THE FIFER]

cheers bill is this album available throughout

[Guest]

Well, don't quite know how to respond, Fifer.  

 

First impression is that it looks like a 'wildlife' garden, and more like a woodland (than my garden anyway).    And plenty of cover (as one photo shows) for the typical 'stealth' attack. The only thing it lacks (and needs) is a rookery. Your friend would get a lot of really interesting, 'non-still-life' photos if a few crows were to set up home there.

 

On page 1 - the chief constables looking toward the photographer: was that just before they arrested you? Looked like so many coiled springs.....  ;D

 

Well done.

[Guest]

Bill, what is an oehoe?  ;D Even the name conjures up visions of something like an American Indian Evil Spirit.  ;D  ;D   ;D

 

Won't we ALL be running for cover when we hear it - man, bird and beast?  ;D

[bill_bennie]

Hi Bruno, from what I can find on the net an "oehoe" is an Eurasion Owl (europe) or an Eagle-Owl. Fairly large too.

Us here in North America would call it a Great Horned Owl. I was told by a fancier here a couple of years back about a Horned Owl taking his large Geese at night.

Pretty scary if I do say so myself. How big was it? I'd hate to guess.

 

 

Yours in the Sport - Bill.

[Guest]

Hi, Bill. Some 'nutter' in our British Homing World advised letting European Eagle Owls loose in the UK to solve the 'hawk' problem.  

 

Saw another 'nutter' of a would-be wild life presenter, take one on of them on his arm for a TV clip. Looked as if it was about 3-4 feet tall. Didn't see the wingspan. While he was gaily chatting to the camera, the thing took a swipe at his bald head with its hooked beak. End of commentry.  ;D

 

I think that's what all the plastic 'owls' are modelled on, the same one RSPB recommends as a hawk deterrent. Your recording converting these to ones that could 'talk' could be an improvement and at least worth a try for those that already have the owl on top of their loft.  

[THE FIFER]

yes bruno there were plenty chiefs about as well as all the trainees, these photos of the hawk were taken in a ladies back garden at her cottage,

[jimmy white]

going back to hyacinths point, ie picket rspb flag day etc, we might be looked at as though we were one of these animal rights nutters, i wonder if we had leaflets about all the war pigeons, with dicken medal, ie winkie , g i joe etc, and a rough out line on all these pigeons , and the lives they saved and hand them out , beside the flag sellers, and explaining the hawk situation,, had the hawks been   as rife then,      , a lot less lives would have been saved.

[Guest Doostalker]

Found this website with some info on the Eagle Owl, and also a recording of its call. Some falconers in the UK use these for falconry, and a number of bird gardens have them on display. Maximum size is 27 inches which is for both female and male. This is the link to the site.

 

Bruno is right in that it is the model for the deterrent. I think there has been mixed success with the these, but maybe the call would be diffeent..... if you can get your neighbours to be happy with it playing, even at low levels.

 

http://www.discoverit.co.uk/falconry/europeow.htm

 

[Guest Doostalker]

Bill, the Great Horned Owl is one of the Eagle Owls. Its call is described as "Oo-hoooh". Maybe that is where the name "oehoe" comes from.

 

Try this link too.

 

http://www.hawk-conservancy.org/priors/duffy.shtml

 

I liked this bit of info, but don't think I would like to see too many of these wild in the UK :

 

"In forested areas of northern Europe, which are typically inhabited by a number of species of birds of prey, there is often animosity between species. Here the Goshawk and Eurasian Eagle Owl are probably the most murderous!

The Eagle Owl is even known to tackle, quite successfully, raptors as large and swift as the Peregrine Falcon!

The Eurasian Eagle Owl is arguably the largest species of owl in the world (although a large Blakiston's Fish Owl may be slightly larger). In captivity, with access to medical care, regular food and, of course, no threat from predators or humans they may enjoy a life expectancy well in excess of 40 years.

Based on observations in the wild, those birds who survive the first year may expect to live for a total of 12-15 years."

 

 

[Guest Doostalker]

Another link with sounds playable in a different format in case you cannot hear the other ones above.

 

http://www.owlpages.com/owls.php?genus=Bubo&species=bubo

[Guest Doostalker]

Some more info and a link to the site:-

 

The Eurasian Eagle Owl was once resident in the UK, but was hunted to extinction during the late 19th century (NOTE - the RSPB does question this view & says that the evidence is very slim.). This was done mainly by gamekeepers & farmers, concerned on them preying on their livestock. Unlike many other birds of prey, their was some justification to their fears, the owls can take large prey, but it is unlikely that they could do enough to warrant hunting them to extinction. It has also been suggested that other reasons for hunting them were for stuffing as ornaments & for the fashion trade, the long feathers being in particular demand to adorn hats. There are reports of some Eagle Owls living in the wild in the UK, it is most likely that these birds are escaped or (illegally) released captive birds, rather than migrants. (I have also seen one reference to a small reintroduction programme in this country but haven't been able to find any details).

 

http://www.pauldfrost.btinternet.co.uk/eeagleowl.html

 

It seems that oehoe is the Dutch for the Eagle Owl.