wnr today

[johnny11]

Hi All

 

The North Wirral and West Lancashire Amal went from mangotsfield at 11-45 in wsw wind and the Wirral part of it got battered again, two weeks on the run. One suggestion is the birds are sick, but we have some of the best fanciers around here and they suffered losses too, so I dont buy the sickness argument maybe some might. But if a fancier is 1,2,3 fed and loses 20 pigeons are his pigeon in good condition or just not as sick as the others

 

John

[pjc]

Owen, a sugestion for you to get the motion through at the AGM.

If you have a member who is keen to change route but is not going to benefit from it by being in a better loft position then get them to put the motion in.

I know 100% if we put a motion into the club to fly north or south because it comes from us and our position we would be in a much better location than we are on the SE route and it won't even get a seconder!

[Guest neil]

If clashing was the issue then why are there no strays everywhere,the wnr are a big fed in relation to many of these you are crossing so in reality you would bring more with you than is evident,i think yesterdays problem was the birds never cleared as a group and slowly broke into small batches,the same with the other welsh feds mine included(rvf)-see comment on birds going through Crumlin in small batches seems to indicate the same.Ants birds were up 15 mins after us and if these got together with rvf then the groups would be slightly bigger and find their direction easier but still in groups.

I thought it strange that you were up when we were holding 45 miles in front of you but we had a similar race to you with birds arriving all day looking sorry for themselves but the ones that stuck at it will be better for it with some hours on the wing.

Why are people always looking for change(spoke to a few on the south who are missing half a team yesterday,the north has been said earlier took a hiding on Saturday) the way we are going we will be flying from ireland next and be known as the cartwheel feds,strange races have been going on since racing began,i agree that with all the information that we sould be giving our birds the best possible chances(yesterday was an early call by all the feds which would have benifitted all to wait untill mid-day but decisions were made i guess that they thought were for the best).

I ended up with 25/28 but on the face of it a crap race myself with birds flying in untill 6pm spread over the afternoon and 19 of them doing over 3.45hrs fom 89 miles but they eat up and are out bathing and generaly looking o.k this morning.

[Guest tom123]

well said neil finally someone looking at reality

my ansewer to the individuals which  arnt happy and they believe the grass is greener else where then i wish them all the best and go and jion these organisations they are currently in place for both north and south route racing without trying to sway dectitions

 

im sure if i wasnt happy then i would do what i had to do for myself regardless of anyone elses thoughts

[adam owen]

lets be honest tom we all no this route is crap ever since 1999 when we started goin east with the wnrf we have had really bad young bird losses,old birds in fairness isnt as bad but still is bad. theres alot of time and money being spent on pigeons,lofts and supplements to be having this year in year out.i dont no what happened yesterday,but what i do no them birds were in a right state!!!!!!!,clearly they wernt watered  AGAIN!!!!and may be this had alot to do with it.there was a  strong wind about,which shouldnt make a diiferance to them theyl come in the end,but when they had no water and battled in a tuff race u no your askin for trouble.

young birds flying 3to 4 hours dnt tumble dwn roofs,cnt walk over 4inch lips on shed door,fly into the side of shed,do they? .

 

why were they up at 7.45 when all other feds in wales including chale birds up after ten o clock. bad race controlling i would say,as all other feds in wales cnt get it wrong can they?

as u say bout the south route yea we all have our days butt they work back on south,north but this route they dnt.

one question whats the special thing about this east route,why are you so dead against south road or north road flying

[Guest tom123]

yes they went at ten ish and what did they gain by it nothing they had the same sort of race has we did and they were only at newbury what did the south have the same sort of race and the north sat i believe

so trying to blame individuals within  the wnr  firsly you need to look at it in a whole and ask the other organisations the same qustions but no you cant because you aint  amember like you aint of the wnrf so you shouldnt be involved in trying to sway organisation that you are not part of sholud you

has for being against south road racing i flew south along time ago but has you obviouslly prefer south i prefere south east each to there own

you have a south road club less than a mile from you ?you spend a lot of time there so jion it

[Guest strapper]

id like to see the official vote about changing routes we had not long ago. see how many did vote to stay the same..or maybe it should go to another vote ,this time it being published how the clubs voted...and its brought out into the open for all to see.

tom ..in all fairness i dont think the best option for the fed would be to see members leaving for other feds...i would think we have a good strong fed and in all honesty i seriously think as a whole it needs to look more deeply into what the members require on the whole and not individuals...if on the whole they say stay as we are then ok but i think something has to be done b4 the fed realises its losing members over something that could be easily dealt with .

ive been on this route i believe when it started and changed from the new north road.

i just hope it can be sorted for the good of the fed as a whole.

[Bugsy]

The first thing that should happen is for Terry Tremeer to get all of the Feds officials together asap and have a thorough investigation of what happened, the output should be a report which details all activities from the time of collecting the birds, time the transporter was fully loaded, time the transporter left for the racepoint, when the water was put on the birds, when annd where the weather forecasts were obtained, line of flight info, in a nutshell the whole shooting match. Secondly the WNR Fed should publicise the full report as I am sure it could and would help other organisations but most of all it shows that the federation has nothing to hide and its most important assets are its members and their birds. I know Terry personally and he works tirelessly for the fed and the fancy in Wales and I am sure he would niot be averse to publicising the findings as there are a lot of questions to be answered.

 

John B.

[adam owen]

the north went sat for a start,the south had a good race good time and good returns as for rvf swg not sure so no point saying .im not trying to sway nething just giving an appinion which we are all allowed to do.

[Guest tom123]

if you sent and had an hammering like some lofts did/have then fair enough  but once again your giving an opinion on something you dont compete in and not a member of.

i hope th snfc or the unc dont have a bad race next week because youll be telling them what to do ?

[adam owen]

im not telling any one what to do its a chat room, you chat u give appinions which im allowed to do the same as every 1 else .ill say what i want when i want the reason you get so cheesed of with me is im straght to the point no messing ,and say the truth . if you cant handle that not really my problam is it .

[adam owen]

and lets set one thing straght tom as u love to point out im not flying at the moment ,yes this is true due to personall reasons a few weeks before the ybs started i had get rid of all my birds not through choice ,something wat had be done due personall reasons .so thats why im not racing,but am a member of organisations in wales, and plan to race again next year.so weather im racing or not all this will effect myself and fellow fancy next year.

[chichichi]

There are a good few rhondda valley birds over here.. we have 2 ,, rang numbers but no answers,, hope to get them back tonight..

 

I know of about 4 with birds from the rvf over here in the west,, I can't understand as they must have cleared for ours to get liberated 15 mins later.. I think we were lucky to liberate last,, but sometimes it works the other way..

 

I do feel when feds go below the m4 and lower they have less chance of clashing,,

 

I still feel there should be one welsh amal.. all feds go together after 120 miles.. you still get fed winner and section amal winner,, and also amal winner.. 20,000 to 30,000 welsh birds coming accross the country would not be affected by any other fed then..

 

best of luck and hope the rest make it back..

 

ant

[adam owen]

yes i agree mate the unc dnt av bard races because nobody will get in there way.the trouble is most feds hate the welsh because we come across  all of them because of this they show no respect and liberate when they want with no care of us,know as big as the wnrf is 6,000 birds wont all go together some will go some will stay and go later know when feds give it 15mins inbetween libs the 3half thousand who mest about are going to head home and go straght into the next lib

[dick]

There are a good few rhondda valley birds over here.. we have 2 ,, rang numbers but no answers,, hope to get them back tonight..

 

I know of about 4 with birds from the rvf over here in the west,, I can't understand as they must have cleared for ours to get liberated 15 mins later.. I think we were lucky to liberate last,, but sometimes it works the other way..

 

I do feel when feds go below the m4 and lower they have less chance of clashing,,

 

I still feel there should be one welsh amal.. all feds go together after 120 miles.. you still get fed winner and section amal winner,, and also amal winner.. 20,000 to 30,000 welsh birds coming accross the country would not be affected by any other fed then..

 

best of luck and hope the rest make it back..

 

ant

 

 

You did not liberate last there was another fed let go after you

[Bugsy]

Tom, you are right in this needs looking at as a whole, from adversity comes opportunity and this is now a golden opportunity for the WNRF to do the right thing and conduct a thorough investigation into the race and then publicise the findings.

 

John B.

 

    

[Gail J]

Birds reported today in Yorkshire and Surrey

[holmsidelofts]

yes they went at ten ish and what did they gain by it nothing they had the same sort of race has we did and they were only at newbury what did the south have the same sort of race and the north sat i believe

so trying to blame individuals within  the wnr  firsly you need to look at it in a whole and ask the other organisations the same qustions but no you cant because you aint  amember like you aint of the wnrf so you shouldnt be involved in trying to sway organisation that you are not part of sholud you

has for being against south road racing i flew south along time ago but has you obviouslly prefer south i prefere south east each to there own

you have a south road club less than a mile from you ?you spend a lot of time there so jion it

 

Sorry tom but adam is dead right, why are you defending the people who treat our birds like sh**, and yesterday they were, and if all the rumors are right about how the convoyers treated the birds yesterday they all should be band from the sport. There will be big changes at the end of the year, the amount of pms im getting from fanciers that are not happy with the WNR fed and the talk at my club last night there wont be many fanciers left at the end of the season. there were big name fanciers with some lossing 30 plus birds yesterday, this is not racing this is board line cruelty, I dont believe that the race controllers are making any efforts to contact all the feds before liberation, they are relying of the weather being ok and thats it. I will not be putting another bird through the WNR again. Your are right in that everyone has to do it for themselsf and thats exactly what im doing, getting away from the incompetence of this fed, As adam said ever since this route was taken in 1999 the lossages have been huge. I flew with the WNR on the north route and never had any lossages like this.

I have lost £1000s of pounds worth of birds yesterday, through no fault of there own.

But not anymore.

Your welcome to the WNR fed i wont be a part of them anymore, i should have done this 3 years ago but thought things would change, how wrong was i. I have been in this sport for 30 years  and this isnt pigeon racing.

 

 

 

[Guest Owen]

Come on Tom there is no need to say that to Adam. He has every right to express his opinions and you know it.

Can we get back to the problem we have? I agree with John Burgam. We should stop the arguements and ask Terry for an enquiry. And again I agree with John when he says that Terry Tremeer will move mountains to find a way of sorting this out. For me the idea of East to West flying for young birds is a non-runner. A friend drew up a drawing showing the Feds we are crossing on the last few weeks of racing. It was frightening. And I am sure there are a lot more that we know nothing about. My own mind is made up. I will not fly East to West again with young birds. Currently I fly with the Hanbury Arms at Talywaun and I really like the Club. I like the fact that I fly against Scammel and Peploe, Smith and Jenkins and a lot of very good fliers. But however much I will miss being a member of a great Club I will not be chucking my young pigeons away again. Ideally, I hope we can find a solution to these problems because I think that regardless of the "I like flying South East" group we are all in this together and we should stay together to find the solution.

One thing I am certain of, we will not go on abandoning young pigeons to the streets of Britain much longer. Not only is unacceptable to individuals like me but it will not be tolerated by the Public at large. At the moment they are unaware of the facts but we are kidding ourselves if we think that they will not find out. And if they do, who knows what restrictions would be placed upon us. Surely it is better for us to manage our own affairs than risk having outside interference, which could result in us loosing control of things.

[holmsidelofts]

Come on Tom there is no need to say that to Adam. He has every right to express his opinions and you know it.

Can we get back to the problem we have? I agree with John Burgam. We should stop the arguements and ask Terry for an enquiry. And again I agree with John when he says that Terry Tremeer will move mountains to find a way of sorting this out. For me the idea of East to West flying for young birds is a non-runner. A friend drew up a drawing showing the Feds we are crossing on the last few weeks of racing. It was frightening. And I am sure there are a lot more that we know nothing about. My own mind is made up. I will not fly East to West again with young birds. Currently I fly with the Hanbury Arms at Talywaun and I really like the Club. I like the fact that I fly against Scammel and Peploe, Smith and Jenkins and a lot of very good fliers. But however much I will miss being a member of a great Club I will not be chucking my young pigeons away again. Ideally, I hope we can find a solution to these problems because I think that regardless of the "I like flying South East" group we are all in this together and we should stay together to find the solution.

One thing I am certain of, we will not go on abandoning young pigeons to the streets of Britain much longer. Not only is unacceptable to individuals like me but it will not be tolerated by the Public at large. At the moment they are unaware of the facts but we are kidding ourselves if we think that they will not find out. And if they do, who knows what restrictions would be placed upon us. Surely it is better for us to manage our own affairs than risk having outside interference, which could result in us loosing control of things.

 

Totally agree with you owen.

For what its worth i have the same thread going on pigeon chat heres some of the comments from there on the subject.

 

by paulh on Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:11 pm

 

there are wnrf birds reported in derby/liverpool./nottingham..plus other places that have slipped my mind.

they clashed alright.

my club m8 whose bird won the club last week is in liverpool.

 

My mate had one reported in Mansfield from Newbury yesterday as well. (from the RV fed i think).

 

 

by jr on Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:56 pm

 

in my opinion clashing,poor weather,sick birds,and cowboy race controllers are to blame for this fiasco,some fanciers dont know a sick bird when they see one,after ybs they need at least a month to get over it and i would say thats a minimum time,we were at billericay at the weekend 170miles i sent 8 got 7 came like drops of blood guy near me sent 49,13 minutes between his 1st and 2nd bird,what happened i can tell you clashing without a doupt,i personaly think a lot of these people in charge of libs dont give a toss,get em up and get home,talk about organised chaos,what pisses me of more than anything is when they tell me porkies when things go wrong.

[adam owen]

thank you owen for your surrport.it seems every time i say something i get slammed,normally because i dnt mess about get to the point,state the truth.its true what they say the truth hurts.its nice to see others see my point. nobody wants to split the fed but something should be done for the sake of the sport and the pigeons.in 1999 i flew the east programe four or five races i belive was on the programe and it wasnt that bad but it was only up to 100 miles and sunday racing,the year after we changed over and ever since its been up and down more dwns than ups.old birds aint that bad but young birds its a desaster every time if you dnt have them on day you will be lucky to see them again .north and south how ever do work back.

just stating facts

[adam owen]

the bloke is dead right jason

as jon burg sed on here earlyer we need investagation  yea i agree but like paul said they tell porkys to cover there own backs.

eg geissan  last year the race was a smash to say the leest desaster id say ,when convoyer was approched what did he say the weather was lovley all the way home,know even the then whpu presidant glyn picton even said he was lieing as he had contacts on the belguim holland area and the words they said was how on earth did u race today its been non stop rain heavy as well few others said the same to.so my point y have the investagation when all you will have is lies ,and after that race guys last year among other f??k ups he made hes still here doing the same this year    WHY WHY  WHY

[adam owen]

a few people have said that  bout hellibron,u never no i spose as for that vote that was fixed if i remember right

[Guest neil]

Well Tom you get it wrong then its wrong and when you get it right you are wrong,you have my sympathies but dont leave the site because i may be r.valley but you are a mine of information to your members and i enjoy your contributions

neil

[taffacre]

Sunday was the first bad race we have had with the South West Glamorgan Fed,up until this weekend we have had brilliant racing,even the old bird racing was brilliant up until Bonn. It seems to me that the Welsh North Road do things totally different to all the other feds in Wales. They are not in the combine they have a different race programme where they are far in front of everyone with regards to racepoints,for instance we are only in Guilford this week 132 miles to me and they are already in Maidstone 180 miles,young birds need education and given confidence,they just seem to want to lead the way and get as far as possible down the road before anyone else,i can see clubs leaving them for this reason,the racing has been very POOR to say the least. Another point aboiut sundays race why didnt the feds pull all at the same time ? were we in the same lib site ? surely it would have been better to all go together ?    at the moment i have 7 missing and a lot of people have faired a lot worse than myself.Together would have been a lot better.