need photographs

[Guest Silverwings]

re: birds of prey ( Jimmy white) need to collect as many photographs of hawk attacks on birds (all Birds)  if you you have any could you please add them to this thread or the birds of prey thread ........thanks

[THE FIFER]

hi s/wings how do u get photos on the thread? i have some of a hawk in a garden with a wood pigeon, they are on my site photo page2    www.fiferpigeons.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

[Guest]

Well I find the pictures posted so far in the birds of prey thread pretty revolting... I should imagine ordinary members of the public will feel the same and may have thoughts about the motives of the people who photographed and posted them.  :-/

 

I also recall that during the SHU Raptor campaign, RoundO sent a wood pigeon's carcase to the SHU, and was told they couldn't use it as part of their evidence... for reasons that should be obvious. So I think it wise to sound a reminder that there's racing pigeons & hawks, and there's hawks and nature, and if we get them mixed up, the RSPB and others will make mincemeat of us.

 

Birds of prey turning people's gardens into 'song bird' killing grounds are of course a completely seperate issue again, as is the likes of the Harris Hawk attack on the woman's dog in a public place (on the local authority's property).

 

So I would caution that we need to be clear what it is we are trying to achieve.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

as you say bruno some gardens are turned in to "song bird killing grounds" thats exactly whats happened to my brothers garden umpteen scatters of feathers around but not many birds now , off course he cant even feed them now, as it would attract the hawk again, much to his dismay.

[Guest Silverwings]

Fifer brilliant photographs ! dont know how to do this either , we will have to ask one of the wiz kids on this site ( are you listening wiz kids ) only just getting into this computer stuff myself !

Bruno.... do you know how to quantum leap these photos ?  as regards what we are getting into it dont matter a toss if the photos are of pigeons ,songbirds  or sky rabbits  as long as they are having the sh** kicked out of them by a hawk ? once we have some sort of collection we need to wang them to local and  national newspapers by some of our distant relatives ,preferably non pigeon fanciers( they are sick of the sight of us ) got to play these so called do gooders at their own game !" DIRTY "  Need a punchline " WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE DAWN CHORUS ? our local songbirds are learning to keep their heads down  ! from hawks and magpies how about those in your area ?

[Guest Doostalker]

Bruno, bit at a loss on your comment regarding the photos and the people who posted them. I posted the majority of them. I have been gathering photos for quite a while to use in articles and to show the public what really happens when a bird is taken by a hawk. The hawk kills as it has to. Nothing is clean and swift about it generally. It is a messy business. But you won't see this on Bill Oddie's programme.

 

There is no sanitised verson here, and the sooner Joe Public realises that the birds that the RSPB so studiously protect are killiing vast quantities of other birds in a slow and gruesome manner, then maybe the sooner they will stop putting their hand in their pocket to fund it.

 

Maybe that is a forlorn hope. I still think that the facts need to be given to the general public.

 

So these are my motives. Nothing more. If you are alludiing to my motives being otherwise, maybe you could tell me what you think they are??

[Guest]

No, not questioning anything or anybody, Doostalker.  

 

I was merely trying to play 'devils advocate' and obviously made a really bad job of it when you took it as how 'I' rather than 'ithers' might see this campaign.  ;D

 

I found the photos horrific. I think Joe Public will judge them horrific too. >

 

In my opinion, the reason you don't see footage such as this from the likes of Bill Oddie (and I'm not a fan of his) is that it would turn ordinary folk's stomachs. And again, in my opinion, Joe Public just wouldn't stand for it and their most likely reaction would be against those who brought it to them in all its gory detail - i.e. classic 'shoot the messengers'. If it were the BBC, their switchboards would be jammed for a fortnight.

 

You can explain to people that the bird is eaten alive and leave the rest to their imagination. You don't have to show it in such an 'in your face' manner. As I said earlier, they will question your motives for doing so.   :-/

 

 

[Guest Doostalker]

Like the saying goes Bruno "a picture is worth a thousand words." Maybe after viewing these the public will realise just why pigeon fanciers get so upset about losing their birds.  >

 

However, if they decide to shoot the messenger, then I suppose that goes with the territory....."C'est la guerre."  :

 

Just reminded of your previous post about the antis when you said, "Open debate is healthy, most welcome and, in my opinion, should be encouraged," and "I think the people who contribute to this website show that they have absolutely nothing to hide...they display depth of care, a very high regard for and deep commitment to their pigeons' welfare."  

 

I agreed with your sentiments then and do not see how the posting of these pictures runs contrary to those views. We have nothing to hide, and should be reaching out to the public about the issues which confront us.  In doing that, we have to present the public with the facts not some sanitized version of them, like the opposition are prone to doing.  

[Guest]

Couldn't agree more with your sentiments, Doostalker.  

 

But remember that you've to get past the Editor to get your article published. I think it was Fifer who posted elsewhere that he had tried unsuccessfully to get similar photos and articles published in the Scotsman. The Ed may be taking the same 'devils advocate' view that photos of that nature are not fit to be published in a Daily newspaper, for reasons I've already given plus the Ed's there to publish articles which will sell more newspapers.

 

I would also say, that you'll win 'the sympathy vote' by a landslide from the type of photo posted showing the 'huge' menacing falcon on top of and pinning down the helpless 'little' pigeon on the ground. Again my opinion, that photo says it all and would probably get published, while the others perhaps say too much and might also stop the article itself from being published.

 

 

[Guest Doostalker]

Some slight confusion here Bruno. The "Ed" in question, so far as my articles are concerned, are those in pigeon and field sports magazines. I, like you, think that the "Daily Burp" would never publish them, so had not intended messing up their page three with real life! :

 

Would never do to put "Bird Lover, Corstorphine" off his breakfast by exposing him to a dose of reality!  

 

I also intend them to go with articles on other web sites as appropriate.  

[jimmy white]

IF YOU DONT LIKE WHATS ON THE T,V, YOU CAN TURN IT OVER, SAME GOES FOR THIS THREAD, AGREE WITH DOOSTALKER