widowhoods going off the boil!!!

[speedbird]

has anyone got any proven ideas when widowhood cocks gone off form 1 team of widowhoods gone off form think its it there mind & probably seen too much of the hen & started to look at the fields so started to train & coming like rockets letting em do what they want which they cant keeep still & struggle getting em in!!! which makes me think they are fit enough but something in there mind is niggleing at them any help,suggestions will be apreciated i was gonna leave em in for a few days & feed nothing but depuritve to knock em down then build up what does everyone think?

[Guest]

Speedbird,

 

Our cocks have been performing reasonable well for us, but still not up to top notch.I've been looking at different things this week and one thing I sense is that the loft is too cold and they are not coming into top form quickly enough, so we have removed the insulation from the roof for the summer and blocks off 50% of our ventilation ducts.

 

We shall see tomorrow

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Speedbird,

 

Widowhood cocks will come into form for 7 to 10 weeks, you must find form, and do everything you can to keep it. No excitement from a Wednesday, and if your birds have not dropped their first primary flight then the preparation was wrong and you are racing them on condition not form. Condition is a monthly cycle and is visible, form comes but once per year and is only visible in your record book. If a pigeon peaked last year at a certain date, and if his preparation is right he will peak the same time every year. If a cock and hen both peak naturally around the same date and you pair them together, all youngsters from them should peak the same time every year for it is an hereditary factor.

 

To fly widowhood like a professional one needs to study it much further than the basics. Of course rest and quiet is necessary from a Wednesday. On a forum such as this, it is difficult to help you become a pro at widowhood, my best advice is to go to the opposite end of your country or even another country and chat to one of the wizards. I am afraid you will not increase your widowhood knowledge by asking your competitors.

 

I do not wish to argue the toss about widowhood, but there are many who would like to make one think they do several crazy things and are still successful. My advice is to take such comments with a pinch of salt, do it like the pro's do and you will have amazing consistency. Meddle with it and your results are no better than those who fly their birds celibate. I have joined many arguments in the past and have been hassled for being too forthright about many things, so if you think my comments are not constructive let it pass, for I have no desire to quibble with anyone on the matter, I am only stating my opinion. Many people are convinced they are flying widowhood but are not really, in the true sense of the word. There are many variables today of the original Belgium system, and in my opinion they all fail to come up to the high standard of that applied by the old masters.

 

Try to understand the difference between condition and form and you are half way there.

 

One can make many mistakes with widowers, and once we have meddled with the desire that makes them special, we can call it a day until next year.

 

Kind Regards

 

Jack

 

 

jackbarkel@mweb.co.za

 

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel

 

[speedbird]

fair comments made many thanks

[TheSaddler]

Excellent post Jack

[carl]

well said jack,im from sunderland and i fly against some of your relations here in the northeast of england.

 

how are you doing jack,i find your articles on your site very intresting.

 

carl greenhow

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Karl,

 

I have been away in South Africa for 41 years, but my heart is still in Ryhope/Sunderland. If you see my brother give him my regards, also my nephews David Sid & Kevin. I have returned several times and hope to do it one more time.

Stay in touch we might get the chance to meet up in the future.

 

Regards

 

Jack

[carl]

Hello Karl,

 

I have been away in South Africa for 41 years, but my heart is still in Ryhope/Sunderland. If you see my brother give him my regards, also my nephews David Sid & Kevin. I have returned several times and hope to do it one more time.

Stay in touch we might get the chance to meet up in the future.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

 

Yes jack i will send your regards as i see them at fed doos etc,hopefully i might be in the clock when we finally get a race and i should see them at fed hq.

If you do come over to visit i would love to meet you that would be great.Im sure you know where oddfellows is and your more than welcome.

 

speak soon

[speedbird]

think gonna re-pair the cocks get em down on eggs then split em up again has anyone else done this ive done before with good results

[tony99]

i did it two weeks ago cocks back how they should be now see saterday my mate came down one day and said your cock arnt right put them together now difrent birds but i was still 3 on sunday

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oakwood lofts/ tony/

[Guest]

We're still having trouble with our Cocks, we're flying Roundabout, our hens are loft flying great, somewhere in the region of an hour, but the cocks just don't want to fly, 20 minutes or so and they are back down on the ground, we have also tried them with open loft in the afternoon and they have hardly flown at all.  This has us baffled.  We have the three Oregon State Races (The whole of Oregon ship and fly together) coming up 300, 400 and 500, we would like to set the hens and a few of our longer distance cocks up for the two longer races, and are considering pairing them back up, we would welcome any suggestions.

 

Personally I'm not too keen on widowhood or roundabout I prefer to fly the birds natural.

[tony99]

pair them backup it may work for u it worked fo me  u can only try my cock went of form now just how i like them to b all going all over the place on there own

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Hyacinth and All,

 

You must watch your widowhood cocks from a hidden observation post. When your widowhood cocks see you, they associate your appearance with that you may be going to show the hens, and they will not fly. This is all part of the widowhood skills, the system is great but we must understand the mind of a widower.

 

Those who separate them and pair up again are not really flying widowhood, they are playing guessing games with it. No disrespect but such practices are not done in top lofts, that is not true widowhood. Most top widowhood flyers would frown at such practices, but never mind to each their own.

 

I do know there is a reason for everything in this game and if one does not understand it, I would advise, do not experiment or play with it. Find out where we are going wrong.

 

Linda for you, this is the only reason your widowhood cocks will not fly, they must not see you while exercising. Stick with it, there is no better way to get the ultimate out of a pigeon.

 

Keep out of the loft as much as possible and cocks will not go off the boil. Most problems are created by the fancier, we must learn these skills the same as any other, it is a wisdom in itself. All these experiments were proven unreliable before we were born, by the Belgium's, I doubt if anyone is going to find anything new, it has all been done before.

 

Stick to good practices and do not change it for anything. Once it goes wrong find out your mistake, pair them up for the rest of the season and try again next year, with more skill and understanding of the art.

 

Kind Regards

 

Jack

[Guest]

Thanks very much Jack,

 

Should we pair then up after the short races this

Saturday 125 and 200 miles

 

[tony99]

if they come well NO IF NOT YES

[Guest]

Jack,

 

as you are no dobut aware Steve is never out of the loft <VBG> which in itself is a problem also we have a neighbour who keeps pigeons, he doesn't race at the moment, most of his birds are hens and he gives them free loft all the time and I think this has something to do with putting the cocks off the boil.  We cannot ask him to keep his birds in, what's your thoughts on this one.

[Guest]

I think your fighting a losing battle if your neighbour has hens out at the same time that you have widowhoods out. I agree with Jack you have to keep out of sight while the cocks are out. I dont have a corridor in my loft and have to sit looking through a little gap in the door to make the the cocks are out of sight B4 I run across to my YB loft to clean them out, as the second they see me in the garden they want to be down.

[Guest shadow]

If your neighbour has hens on open loft your cocks will not want to exercise correctly they will stick close to the hens if he will not get them in a set times to allow you to exercise your cock birds he is not very considerate. I think I would resort to flying natural and put your birds on open loft. I fly mine on roundabout but while cocks or hens are out at exercise I keep out of sight and the loft doors are closed. When I want them in I open the doors and they are down and in as soon as they see the doors open.Good luck

[Guest]

I think the situation may improve with our neighbour next year as he is joining the club and flying young birds.  Maybe then we can make some arrangement for letting the birds out.

 

He is co-operative on race days and keeps his birds in until ours are home after we had two bad incidents with his birds joining our race birds and keeping them up.

 

 

 

[TheSaddler]

"I doubt if anyone is going to find anything new, it has all been done before." - Very negative coment Jack - Accept change, embrace change - everything can be improved and made worse (agree here!)

 

Standstill and others will go past you - I change my system every year - never mid season though. I write all my observations in a diary 365 days a year. In the cold winter months I look at the results sheets and the diary and then draw conculsions then make changes.

 

  

 

[jimmy white]

there are many reasons for widowhood cocks going off the boil some are obvious and some not so obvious, i think the main thing with the cocks are perfect piece during the day, i had my cocks go slightly off and nervy, i fitted a moniter in the house with a camera in the loft and found the reason right away,,a rouge cock that was in and out all the boxes all day, just a pest,, as soon as i removed this cock the birds were differant completely, rested at piece all day and began to fly more and more and showed more confidence, which showed in the results  

[Jack Barkel]

Hello Saddler,

 

My comment was not negative, it was common sense, a person who is always altering or changing a well tried and improved system that was perfected probably before he was born, is in my opinion not being as clever as he may think he is.

 

Change as much as you will, it does not matter as far as I am concerned, but I know that these changes are usually detrimental and usually distract from a successful widowhood team.

 

I believe in change for advancement in evrything, but if we have not set the world on fire with some new inovation, rather keep quiet about it. This is my opinion and not a negative approach whatsoever. There has been no successful inovation in the last 50 years in widowhood that took the world by storm so I suggest and not negatively that we stop meddling and leave this well controlled system as it is.

 

The clever pioneers in this field are all dead and gone, but their legacy lives on.

I am positive about this and have no negative thoughts whatsoever

Regards

Jack,

[jimmy white]

"I doubt if anyone is going to find anything new, it has all been done before." - Very negative coment Jack - Accept change, embrace change - everything can be improved and made worse (agree here!)

 

Standstill and others will go past you - I change my system every year - never mid season though. I write all my observations in a diary 365 days a year. In the cold winter months I look at the results sheets and the diary and then draw conculsions then make changes.

 

  

 

while i find myself on a fine line between saddler and jack , both who have had excellent posts, i cannot help but swing to saddlers side,,,theres always room for improvement, these fanciers years ago must have said the same, hence the widowhood system, i beleive if they were living today,they would still be improving it,

we just need to look at roger bannister breaking the 4 minute mile, it was world headlines, but today, with improvement,that 4 minute mile means nothing, i certainly mean no controversy, but in my opinion ,improvement is allways possible

[Jack Barkel]

Roger Bannister was a chemist, enough said about breaking records, and plenty were quick to break it after him.

 

Widowhood is much like some people with a new car, they are always under the bonnet trying to improve it to higher standards than the originators. Very rarely successfully I am afraid, and very self opinionated.

 

We will always have meddlers and the reason being, they make so many innovations they can not maintain consistency against the best. If they had got it right in the first place, they would not need to alter it, to stay at the top. If you ask those up there already I am sure they will confirm this.

 

This is the only reason for meddling with a perfect system of any kind. No my dear friends, in my opinion, I would consider what you both think to be a positive attitude, points out to me as one filled with doubts shortcomings and frustrations, because one could not get it to their satisfaction in the first place.

 

No matter, there is a reason for chopping and changing a system that has proved itself, and this is usually the inability of the fancier to manage the system at its proven best.

 

My friends, I have travelled to many parts of the world and met many with thoughts of improving a perfected system, and we will praise them when they achieve these near impossible improvements. Up until now I can only say they dabbled at widowhood and achieved nothing to tell the world about.

 

If we get it right we have no need to try and take it a step further than has already  been proved.

 

If we do, as I say, publish it so we can all learn from this masterpiece of innovation, methinks we will wait a long time.

 

As Jimmy said, improvement is always possible but on this well tried and proven system, highly improbable. It is usually our own attitude and approach to the  system that needs improving, and very self opinionated to think that it is the creators of the system that got it wrong and not some change or innovation of our own doing.

 

We do not have to be a phsycologist to analyse pigeon fanciers. One does not stand still when operating a tried and proven system to the letter. If one fiddles when the system is right, one is making it easier for ones competitors. If it is not right I can assure you it is the management that is at question, not the system.

 

I hope this will serve as a warning to all interested in Widowhood and use the old adage.

 

IF IT ISN"T BROKEN, DON"T TRY AND FIX IT. When you get it right, leave it alone.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

P.S. I still respect you as friends in the sport, but certainly can never be in agreement with these last two posts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

 

 

    

 

  

 

thank you very much for your honest and forthright answer, jack and allthough i dont race pigeons now, due to disability, having raced pigeons for more han 50 years and been at the top club fed and national for many years, i have found to keep up a winning system, there had to be slight changes in this time, i quite agree with you about "meddling" and" dont fix"it if its not broken"  very wise words indeed, but i find in reality , things have to be changed due to various differant circumstances, i.e.weather, type of racing, or mishaps, and only experience will allow you to make these changes,to suit, i feel there are many fanciers "go by the book" and when it comes to some one difficulty, or another, cannot cope, and as you say start" meddling"i think its more knowing how to change, and knowing when to change, in uncertain circumstances, and only experience will tell you that,i must say jack i enjoy very much your input, on the forum. its obvious you are a well learned pigeon fancier, and look forward to reading more of your posts... jimmy