how many to breed

[Guest]

It is necessary to understand how many birds we need to breed for our purpose; how many young birds for racing and how many old birds we want on the team. We usually breed around 100 youngsters. This allows us to fly 70-80 ybs and 40-50 old birds. Obviously, you may breed as many as you want, but remember it is always nice to have more and weed them down. To achieve 80 flying youngsters you will need 12-20 breeding pairs and breed two rounds. When to start your breeding season? This depends on the start of the races and which system of flying you select. We fly youngsters on the darkening system at The Jacksons Loft. The basics we learned from the Ganis tape and some tinkering, but our methods also apply to natural young birds. The reason we fly the darkening system is because of the molt as our young bird season starts in late July and runs through late September. If you have no experience with the darkening system, please refer now to the Ganis tape and the darkening system at the end of this segment. If you fly natural young birds please refer to the natural system near the end of this segment. If you have some knowledge of darkening continue on.

We mate up January 15th with our stock birds. This gives us 40 young birds ready to wean by March 7th to 15th . We wean our birds into eight hours of light per day (9:00AM to 5:00pm). We feed these birds once a day. Whether you feed them morning or afternoon depends upon when you are able to train-which comes later. We like to train in the afternoon after work so we feed at 4:30 PM. On feeding this is a temperamental subject. We recommend a good quality mix (either pre-mixed or hand mixed by the flyer) as a base. The most important thing is this feed must be clean, dust and mould free and stored in a clean, cool, dark place that is free from vermin. This mix will consist of many types of grains including, corn wheat, several kinds of peas, beans, safflower, kafir corn, white millet etc. We buy our feed from Tradewinds Feeds in Tacoma, Washington and highly recommend them but any high quality pacing pigeon mix will do for these babies. Feeding entails putting down the feed and taking it away ten minutes later. Figure out how much they eat and then feed the same amount every day.

Our young birds have access to a settling cage on the landing board which allows the birds to be outside and still be contained while they have a look around and also learn how to get through the traps. After a few weeks of this they are ready to be released. For the first five days we just let them go outside. Note: :for the 1st time out we feed them 3/4 rations the day before so they are really hungry. We always say that you have to trap train them before they fly. After 5 days of some or most of the birds being outside and being called in a short time later, it is time to let them out and any birds which are still in the loft are gently prodded onto the landing board. The trap is then closed. The birds are always let out and called in at a set time every day. Knowing this they will start to fly around the loft. After a week or so you can gently prod any birds which don't seem to fly. By now we are chasing them out, closing the trap and making them fly as soon as they leave the inside of the loft. At this stage we let them fly as long as they want but will still feed them in at the same time to keep the feeding times standardized. The birds are now 2 to 2.5 months old and have been on darkening over 4 weeks. The birds should be well into the body moult, feathers should be flying. The birds are flying in a kit for fifteen minutes to half and hour now and are confident at flying and landing. We encourage them to fly longer and longer until they freely fly forty-five minutes. This is enough work for now and the minute they land they are called in for feed. (This is the secret to good trapping.) We continue on in this way until they have been on darkening nine or ten weeks then we put them on full natural light, not bothering to increase light slowly, this enables us to now feed twice per day and train twice as well. In the morning at eight after our old birds work is done we let the young birds out for a 30-45 minute fly then feed them back in with 1/3 of their normal day's food. In the afternoon we take them training. At first 5 miles, 3 or 4 times over a week, then 10 miles 3-4 times. If they are doing well you can now go further. We like to get them out to 50 miles, at least, before the races and like to have 5-6 weeks of training in by then. When they return from training they are called in to the other 2/3 of their feed.

When our birds are trained up and our cocks and hens are showing (becoming sexually mature) we separate them in the lofts, hens on one side and cocks on the other. Please refer to figure 1 for a loft layout. We like to do this at least a week or two before the season starts. The Saturday before the races we let hens and cocks together for 10 minutes then take them on a long training toss- fifty to seventy-five miles) When they return we allow them to stay together for 3-4 hours then separate them again. Sunday morning we bath them in the aviaries and feed 1/3 the normal days food, in the afternoon we let them out for a fly of 30-45 minutes. Mon it's back to work, morning flying, afternoon training. From Sunday to Wednesday we feed a mixture of 75% mix and 25% barley. On Thursday prior to 1st race we will change to straight mix. Friday morning we feed 2/3 of a days ration but take it away after 10 minutes (they can stay in Fridays). This is all we feed them prior to the race as the 1st race is only 75 or 100 miles. They are now ready for shipping to the race. A half hour before basketing we let the hens and cocks run together. This gets going and really motivates the more mature birds.

Repeat this weekly regimen throughout the season, remembering a few points. Starting the 2nd week change to straight mix on Wednesday night, feed them all they want Friday morning and take it away after ten minutes. ( optional- 1/4 tsp oil seeds per bird on Friday for 2-4 weeks). Now we are getting into some longer young bird races, 150-300 miles. On Thursdays we can add some carbohydrates to the mix such as corn or safflower and Friday we can bump up our oil seeds to 1/2 or even 3/4 tsp per bird adding more as the distance goes out. One tip we might add: If your course is tough try resting 1/4 of your birds each week, the late-comers from the week before and any bird which is down in weight make good candidates for a week off.

We have a bank of nest boxes in the young bird cock pen. The doors to these boxes are closed during the week and are open Friday afternoon until the birds are separated after the race.

This segment is only our way of doing things, the system can be changed and adjusted any way you want and please do. We would be interested in talking to anyone who has anything to add because like all pigeon flyers we are always learning.

THE DARKENING SYSTEM

As we stated earlier, we learned about the darkening system from the Ganis video which is available through his web-site. We found it to be very helpful and with it and advice from our fellow club members Doug Blackstock and Ted Mosterd, we found it to be quite easy to learn and our results improved in the first year.

On the darkening system you must have a slightly modified young bird loft. It is essential that you are able to completely darken your loft for 16 hours a day. Using blinds, shutters or flaps over your windows and doors will do the trick. Remember, you have to open and close these blinds every day so you want to make this as easy as possible. Also remember you still have to give them as much air as possible. We do this by placing covers with openings at the bottom over our ventilators. This allows air but not light to enter.

We raise our young birds four to six months before the first young bird race. This allows us to have our birds completely trained and off the darkening system by the 1st race.

When the youngsters are ready for weaning we place them in their new loft at around six pm, after they have been fed for the last time by the old birds. They will now stay in the dark until the next morning at 9:00 am. We open the flaps and aviaries and give them full light. At 4:30 pm we feed a full day's ration and close the f..000ps to darken at 5:00. One note, the times of the eight hours of light and sixteen hours of darkness may be changed to suit your schedule. We suggest, however that you make sure it will accommodate a once a day training toss which comes later on.

Please go back to the beginning of young birds for Intermediate flyers located at the beginning of this segment. Note: Try to see a darkening flyer in your area and ask as many questions as possible and also study his darkening loft for ideas.

THE NATURAL SYSTEM

When our youngsters are ready to wean some 25-30 days old, we place them in their new loft at 6:00 pm, after they have been fed for the last time by their parents. We will give them water but no food until 6:00 pm the following day. We will continue to feed once per day at the same time for one month. After our babies are in their new loft for one week we open the traps and let the birds out into a settling cage on the landing board and teach them to come through the traps at feeding time. After2 to 3 weeks we will let them outside without the settling cage and they are free to do what they wish (except for landing on the ground). After another week we will be gently prodding any bird which isn't out side to do so then the trap is closed. We let the birds out at around 5:00 pm and call them in before 6:00. They will soon be flying. When most of the birds are flying we gently encourage and birds still on the loft into the air. They will soon kit up and fly for thirty minutes or more. Call them in when they have ALL landed. This little trick will stop them fro landing just for food.

When the youngsters are flying together for a half hour, landing and trapping well, we will start letting them out twice a day We let them out between seven and eight in the morning and let them fly a minimum of half an hour. (If they won't fly this long try gently encouraging them with a flag or a bit of hand clapping). When they are all down they are fed in with 1/3 of their daily ration of feed. We repeat this at four or five in the afternoon, but they are fed in with the remaining 2/3 of their daily ration.

When you are satisfied with their twice a day workouts and the birds are down two flights it is time to start training away from the loft. We train in the afternoon and keep our morning fly around the loft the same. We start with 4-5 mile tosses and we give them a few of these, then 10 miles a couple of times , 20 miles and so on. After 4-6 weeks you will be at fifty miles and although you may go further, it is not really necessary. If you fly your young birds for 1/2 hour to an hour every morning and train 50 miles 4 or 5 times a week they will soon be racing home in excellent time. You may want to split your hens and cocks at this time (put them together for half an hour on shipping night). You are now ready to go back to the beginning of the Intermediate young bird segment for feeding and racing information. Just remember these points:

Fly twice a day. This slows the moult and gets them in shape.

Feed lightly and at the same times every day

Visit competitive lofts in your area and ask questions. We have learned

everything we know from our competition!

Intermediate Young Bird Flying is still under construction. We will complete it as soon as possible. Coming soon - The Secrets of Reading Eye-sign by Barry Halstead who is a noted expert on the subject in our area.

OLD BIRD RACING FOR THE INTERMEDIATE FLYER

This segment on Old Bird racing, if it were to be full and complete, would have to be many hundreds of pages long. As with other subjects, this segment is under construction on an ongoing basis, as times change and experience grows. We will start with how our system works and will later explore all the modern systems and have articles from some great names in the Sport.

To start we must say that we have tried most of the well known systems and have learned things from all of them. At the moment we fly double widow-hood (cocks and hens). If you are not knowledgeable on basic widow-hood please refer to our article on this subjectat the end of this Old Bird racing segment. Thos who do not wish to fly widow-hood but would rather fly natural should now go to our Natural Old bird racing article.

Double widow-hood racing- On January first we will have 24 cock birds of good quality settled to the nest boxes in our 2 old bird pens. We also will have selected 24 top hens and a few extra hens and cocks. The matings will be figured and we are ready to go. We mate up February 15th for Old Bird flying as our first race is the first race is in the first week of May.

When we put the pairs together we are very careful to ensure that both birds are happy and stimulated. As a rule we like only yearling hens but make an exception for an outstanding two year old hen. We will mate any two year old hen to the same cock as the previous year.

During the time of breeding our race birds are fed twice per day, morning and late afternoon. We will start letting the birds outside to fly when the 1st round eggs are one week old. They fly morning and afternoon and are called in and fed at their normal feeding time. After two to three weeks we will fly birds in the morning seven days a week and train four or five times a week, in the afternoon. On the days we don't train we fly them in the afternoons.

The widow-hood pairs will raise one youngster only and when the second round eggs are ten days old we separate the pairs, moving the hens to their own pen and leaving the cocks to desert the eggs.

We are now on widow-hood. Our cocks will be let out to fly at 7:15 am. They will fly happily for a half hour or more then come back to look for the hens or to show around or on the loft. As long as they have had a good fly they are allowed on but not in the loft. The cocks parade around but are not allowed on the ground or other lofts, only on their own loft. They soon get bored and fly off, often by themselves and come back a short time later. We let them do this for another 1/2 hour and then feed them in to 1/3 of their daily ration. The hens are not fed in the morning and are locked in the aviary at daybreak. In the afternoon we take the hens training fifty miles. When they return they trap in on the cocks side. The cocks have been rotated through a door into the hen pen. After the hens have trapped in on the cock side we let the cocks out through a door in the aviary. While the cocks are out, the hens are moved over to their pen and fed. We do not train our cocks but many people do. If you are going to train them we recommend that you train the cocks in the afternoon with the hens. Hens are released 15 minutes in advance of cocks as hens have to eat and be moved to their pen before the cocks arrive. As we don't train cocks, we fly them in the afternoon after the hens are back from their training toss. Cocks and hens should have a couple of longer tosses on the two Saturdays before the first race so they can see each other for a couple of hours. They are not fed until they have been separated.

Now we are at the races, we will feed 1/4 barley and 3/4 mix of your choice on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. Wednesday we will feed 1/8 barley Thursday. On Friday, straight mix. We feed one full day's ration Friday morning but take it away after 10 minutes, nothing more until they return from the race on Saturday. This seems to work well but for longer races we repeat morning feeding at noon Friday or shipping night. We are purposely being vague on feeding as it requires a whole segment of its own which we will post in the future (specific questions can be asked by e-mail)

The most important thing about double widow-hood is not letting the hens mate with each other. Being locked out in aviaries or separated in boxes is essential. We repeat, do not let the hens mate up, whatever it takes.

It is wise to have a few cocks and hens unmated for spares because the first birds home will not have a mate and they must be rewarded. Sometimes we fly hens one week and cocks the other.

 

 

[westburylofts]

 

GREAT READ MATE

 

RAY

[PC]

yep great read but remember however many you breed if u dont have enough time to give 2 that amount of birds n get 2 know n spot which are in form which need a rest ect you may do better with fewer birds

[Guest CS]

:Dit's for everyone to read - enjoy your reading  

[Guest ben]

Speight my boy,

                        you do yourself,and this forum a great injustice when you keep posting ridiculous long winded articles,which are so over rated by yourself,but which could be totaly and absulotly  ripped to pieces,shot full of holes by more sober gentelmen,but i will keep those thoughts on hold at the present time,because these tastless ramblings show ,and tell us why no new youngsters ,or older novices tend to try this hobby...simply because people like you spouting you got to do this,must do that,bred a hundred youngsters,race 50 old birds..feed this crap and that tosh,medicate here there and everywhere..it goes on  and on..give it a break,and let`s hope some new started thinks he can begin with a box on the wall,and feed cheap basic clean corn.

     Let`s get 2007 of to a better start than this awful posting which could be interpreted as disheartening someone thinking of starting up in the near future...i just don`t know,i just don`t know.

[Guest Paulo]

30 yb's is more than enough

[Guest shadow]

30 young birds

[birdman55678]

Speight.

I for one much enjoyed reading the post.  I believe its very much possible it came from someone here in the northwest as they mentioned tradewinds.  The general thoughts running on this thread is that 30 ybs are enough.  Thats bull crap here in the northwest.  We race in arguably the toughest concourse in the USA rated so by the RPB.  If you only race 30 ybs here you will not finish the season.  For whatever my thoughts are worth please continue posting these tastless ramblings as its been called.  To me and others its very valuable information concerning our area.  Thanks.  Ed

[stevie]

60 YOUNG BIRDS FOR ME

[Guest shadow]

Speight.

I for one much enjoyed reading the post.  I believe its very much possible it came from someone here in the northwest as they mentioned tradewinds.  The general thoughts running on this thread is that 30 ybs are enough.  Thats bull crap here in the northwest.  We race in arguably the toughest concourse in the USA rated so by the RPB.  If you only race 30 ybs here you will not finish the season.  For whatever my thoughts are worth please continue posting these tastless ramblings as its been called.  To me and others its very valuable information concerning our area.  Thanks.  Ed

You are entitled to your opinion but 30 youngsters is quite adequate for a racing season of young birds in the UK far better to breed quality than quantityit has been proven time and again and is not bull crap.

 

 

[stevebelbin]

Speight my boy,

                        you do yourself,and this forum a great injustice when you keep posting ridiculous long winded articles,which are so over rated by yourself,but which could be totaly and absulotly  ripped to pieces,shot full of holes by more sober gentelmen,but i will keep those thoughts on hold at the present time,because these tastless ramblings show ,and tell us why no new youngsters ,or older novices tend to try this hobby...simply because people like you spouting you got to do this,must do that,bred a hundred youngsters,race 50 old birds..feed this crap and that tosh,medicate here there and everywhere..it goes on  and on..give it a break,and let`s hope some new started thinks he can begin with a box on the wall,and feed cheap basic clean corn.

     Let`s get 2007 of to a better start than this awful posting which could be interpreted as disheartening someone thinking of starting up in the near future...i just don`t know,i just don`t know.

 

I think Craigs postings are very useful and informative - he has spent a lot of time looking through pigeon sites to get his info and has simply bought it to peoples attention. No one is forcing anyone to read it or use it, but its always interesting to read about other peoples systems etc. Any novice should always read read and read some-more and make there own mind up etc. But at least they will have a good understanding of what to expect when racing if they have an understanding of the way others race there birds  ;D ;D ;D

 

[schouwman71]

Speight.

I for one much enjoyed reading the post.  I believe its very much possible it came from someone here in the northwest as they mentioned tradewinds.  The general thoughts running on this thread is that 30 ybs are enough.  Thats bull crap here in the northwest.  We race in arguably the toughest concourse in the USA rated so by the RPB.  If you only race 30 ybs here you will not finish the season.  For whatever my thoughts are worth please continue posting these tastless ramblings as its been called.  To me and others its very valuable information concerning our area.  Thanks.  Ed

 

if i had to know that i would loose all my youngsters every year by breeding my average 30,i think i would have to start with looking at what i was breeding off in my stock loft as here in the u.k and in scotland have some very tough land to cross aswell.

[birdman55678]

You are entitled to your opinion but 30 youngsters is quite adequate for a racing season of young birds in the UK far better to breed quality than quantityit has been proven time and again and is not bull crap.

 

 

Did not mean to start a hollaring match here, if you will notice in my post what I said was "Thats bull crap here in the northwest. ", meaning where I live and not anything about you or your area.  That is also why I wrote "To me and others its very valuable information concerning our area.".  Please understand I was talking about my specific area.  Thanks.  Ed

[birdman55678]

 

if i had to know that i would loose all my youngsters every year by breeding my average 30,i think i would have to start with looking at what i was breeding off in my stock loft as here in the u.k and in scotland have some very tough land to cross aswell.

 

Jesus I wish all the flyers here could have read this one, I will have to pass it on to them, I bet not one of them realizes that our pigeons are junk compared to yours.  I will immediately get on the phone and have them all check their breeders, we will certainly have to do something.  I am going to suggest we shorten our races to equal yours and then only fly on the good days.  After rereading this I will be able to suggest that after all as we wouldn't have any races.   Good Day.  Ed

[schouwman71]

 

Jesus I wish all the flyers here could have read this one, I will have to pass it on to them, I bet not one of them realizes that our pigeons are junk compared to yours.  I will immediately get on the phone and have them all check their breeders, we will certainly have to do something.  I am going to suggest we shorten our races to equal yours and then only fly on the good days.  After rereading this I will be able to suggest that after all as we wouldn't have any races.   Good Day.  Ed

 

birdman,you never really went into detail why you and other fanciers loose so many pigeons in your area and whats the cause of it,it would be interesting to here for all of us to see what goes on in the usa regarding pigeon racing.

 

i wasant diggin at you .

[birdman55678]

 

birdman,you never really went into detail why you and other fanciers loose so many pigeons in your area and whats the cause of it,it would be interesting to here for all of us to see what goes on in the usa regarding pigeon racing.

 

i wasant diggin at you .

 

OK I understand and I will try to explain as best I can but please understand I by no means speak for all the NW flyers.  I believe the main problem is we live on the coast.  At our release points can be clear with little or no rain and before the birds get 1/2 way home they can enter wind, rain, sleet, snow and or fog along with everything else.  Put all that together with dense mountain forests everywhere and it makes it tough.  Some years are not bad but some are.  I would say an overall average for ybs would be somewhere around 60 to 70 ybs raised each year.  Seems like 30% or so never make it..  Old birds are rarely around longer than 3 years.  Hope this helps.  Ed

[schouwman71]

Thats a real pity bud,Thats really tough racing indeed.That explaines the large amount of young birds.Cheers

[blackjack]

33 rings i ring about 31 weaned in early may do what suits you and the system you fly and the space you have .

[Guest Hjaltland]

I ring upwards of 24 - 30 yb's .. give 6 or so away to friends. By the end of the year i have about 15 which needs to come down to 10 or 12 for the new season. I only race 10 pairs and keep 3 pairs of older stock birds.

[westy]

i will order 40 rings but may only use 30 not sure on how many im breeding i have 5 eggs and i will have 16ybs off 1 round and a few people will be breeding me some birds and vice versa i will have 2 rounds off my birds but have promised a few people a pair of ybs ect.

[Guest]

I breed 30/35 as normal but just moved house and beetween last season and breaking birds i will need to up the no to 50 to replace the ones lost i only race 25 old birds and 25/30 young but i think if you want to compete with the big boys thats not enough

[Guest]

Its interisting to note that every pigeon fancier thinks that he/she flys in the hardest area/fed/club and that if there is a disadvantage then they have it (by the way me included) but here in Scotland try getting them into ayrshire / Renfrewshire then you will know what hard is ive tried now moved to where i get birds home

[madmaxlofts]

ive got 50 rings u need them nowerdays

[Guest coxy]

ive got 50 rung u have to have in my area they all bloody mod flyers this is the first yr i normally onli have 30 rings and 20 sumthin to race

[me]

but here in Scotland try getting them into ayrshire / Renfrewshire then you will know what hard is

 

good point Frank I've said on here before to the east coast snfc mafia that liberations have taken place when nobody in the "Toon" where no honest men would let their doos out because the weather was so bad.  Hence no members left in the club. Only a few "I used to be in charge read my letter in the BHW" types WHO NEVER FLEW A DOO IN THEIR LIFE