Ventilation

[Guest]

Aye, but you don't want the south westerly winds feeding your loft with damp air or rain blowing into your aviary or doorways

Or the bitter north easterly wind chilling your loft in the winter or blowing snow/sleet into your aviaries or doorways

 

y not????

[bewted]

yeah,why not,tell us then?????????

[DOVEScot]

Basic principles

Without any flow

hot air rises/cold air falls, that's how you get frost on a clear night, no clouds to keep hot air in or cold air out

Gasses in the atmosphere have different densities

air being a gas is denser than gas from the dropping of your pigeon so it will rise or sit above the air, hence bad designed lofts have foul air in the apex even if you left your door open all year

With the correct flow you bring fresh or more air in the bottom pushing the lighter gas from your pigeon droppins out the top, a nice steady flow is better as it will push the gas out the highest point, rather than too much it will waft about and could linger longer in pockets

 

Britains position is that when we get

south westerly winds from atlantic bringing rain as it cools over the north sea.

south easterly winds bring the hot dryer air from huge land mass of europe

north westerly winds bring cold air fom the artic mixing with damp air from the atlantic giving us sleet/snow

north easterly winds bring cold air from iceland and norway giving us cold bitter but dryer air

High pressure over us keeps it all away and low pressure lets it all in

 

So if you can why not try and use these basic principles when siting, building or designing your loft

 

Try sitting in a south facing conservatory on a summers day, try sitting in a north facing conservatory on a winters day and visa versa

 

This may seem like a lot of bull to some but it is used in designing in all walks of life, I can give you hundreds of examples, why not try it for your pigeons  

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Basic principles

Without any flow

hot air rises/cold air falls, that's how you get frost on a clear night, no clouds to keep hot air in or cold air out

Gasses in the atmosphere have different densities

air being a gas is denser than gas from the dropping of your pigeon so it will rise or sit above the air, hence bad designed lofts have foul air in the apex even if you left your door open all year

With the correct flow you bring fresh or more air in the bottom pushing the lighter gas from your pigeon droppins out the top, a nice steady flow is better as it will push the gas out the highest point, rather than too much it will waft about and could linger longer in pockets

 

Britains position is that when we get

south westerly winds from atlantic bringing rain as it cools over the north sea.

south easterly winds bring the hot dryer air from huge land mass of europe

north westerly winds bring cold air fom the artic mixing with damp air from the atlantic giving us sleet/snow

north easterly winds bring cold air from iceland and norway giving us cold bitter but dryer air

High pressure over us keeps it all away and low pressure lets it all in

 

So if you can why not try and use these basic principles when siting, building or designing your loft

 

Try sitting in a south facing conservatory on a summers day, try sitting in a north facing conservatory on a winters day and visa versa

 

This may seem like a lot of bull to some but it is used in designing in all walks of life, I can give you hundreds of examples, why not try it for your pigeons  

 

AYE YOU ARE RIGHT, THE SECOND BOTTOM LINES HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD ;D

[sherlock]

 

AYE YOU ARE RIGHT, THE SECOND BOTTOM LINES HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD ;D

 

Can you speak English please kind sir :-/

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

Can you speak English please kind sir :-/

 

NAW

[Guest]

Basic principles

Without any flow

hot air rises/cold air falls, that's how you get frost on a clear night, no clouds to keep hot air in or cold air out

Gasses in the atmosphere have different densities

air being a gas is denser than gas from the dropping of your pigeon so it will rise or sit above the air, hence bad designed lofts have foul air in the apex even if you left your door open all year

With the correct flow you bring fresh or more air in the bottom pushing the lighter gas from your pigeon droppins out the top, a nice steady flow is better as it will push the gas out the highest point, rather than too much it will waft about and could linger longer in pockets

 

Britains position is that when we get

south westerly winds from atlantic bringing rain as it cools over the north sea.

south easterly winds bring the hot dryer air from huge land mass of europe

north westerly winds bring cold air fom the artic mixing with damp air from the atlantic giving us sleet/snow

north easterly winds bring cold air from iceland and norway giving us cold bitter but dryer air

High pressure over us keeps it all away and low pressure lets it all in

 

So if you can why not try and use these basic principles when siting, building or designing your loft

 

Try sitting in a south facing conservatory on a summers day, try sitting in a north facing conservatory on a winters day and visa versa

 

This may seem like a lot of bull to some but it is used in designing in all walks of life, I can give you hundreds of examples, why not try it for your pigeons  

 

funny you should say that the late great davie angus of symington at winter time had to use a brush to sweep out all the puddles in his loft that was left by rain and snow ,out in a field it was open to all kinds of weather and when it came to national races had a record second to none he did win the national cant remember what one with town foot good boy a mealy cock ,closed in lofts are only to suit the fancier and make ten nice and cosy to them the pigeon dont care as long as he is getting fed and fresh water  

[Guest]

 

funny you should say that the late great davie angus of symington at winter time had to use a brush to sweep out all the puddles in his loft that was left by rain and snow ,out in a field it was open to all kinds of weather and when it came to national races had a record second to none he did win the national cant remember what one with town foot good boy a mealy cock ,closed in lofts are only to suit the fancier and make ten nice and cosy to them the pigeon dont care as long as he is getting fed and fresh water  

rennes 1962..............was it a chooktirs field ;D

 

[Guest]

rennes 1962..............was it a chooktirs field ;D

 

;D ;D ;D ;Dyour name on the gate

[sherlock]

 

funny you should say that the late great davie angus of symington at winter time had to use a brush to sweep out all the puddles in his loft that was left by rain and snow ,out in a field it was open to all kinds of weather and when it came to national races had a record second to none he did win the national cant remember what one with town foot good boy a mealy cock ,closed in lofts are only to suit the fancier and make ten nice and cosy to them the pigeon dont care as long as he is getting fed and fresh water  

 

So what happened to the theory of a dry loft everybody goes on about. Are they talking rubbish. Always led to believe it was important

[DOVEScot]

 

funny you should say that the late great davie angus of symington at winter time had to use a brush to sweep out all the puddles in his loft that was left by rain and snow ,out in a field it was open to all kinds of weather and when it came to national races had a record second to none he did win the national cant remember what one with town foot good boy a mealy cock ,closed in lofts are only to suit the fancier and make ten nice and cosy to them the pigeon dont care as long as he is getting fed and fresh water  

 

We have doves that sleep in the cotes all year round they are the hardiest, but goes against all the principles that have been logged on the site about a dry loft being important, so what is it wet puddles on the floor like Davie Angus or a dry floor?

Our doves/pigeons are probably kept more natural than most because we don't show them, they are out every day rain hail or shine, in the winter I have to break the ice in there bath, but deserve a chance to shelter from the elements

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

We have doves that sleep in the cotes all year round they are the hardiest, but goes against all the principles that have been logged on the site about a dry loft being important, so what is it wet puddles on the floor like Davie Angus or a dry floor?

Our doves/pigeons are probably kept more natural than most because we don't show them, they are out every day rain hail or shine, in the winter I have to break the ice in there bath, but deserve a chance to shelter from the elements

 

a dry loft when racing is vital, dampness just brings in more trouble

[Guest]

 

We have doves that sleep in the cotes all year round they are the hardiest, but goes against all the principles that have been logged on the site about a dry loft being important, so what is it wet puddles on the floor like Davie Angus or a dry floor?

Our doves/pigeons are probably kept more natural than most because we don't show them, they are out every day rain hail or shine, in the winter I have to break the ice in there bath, but deserve a chance to shelter from the elements

 

are the doves in good health how many have flew the coop to another cosy wee dookit round the corner ,yi said yercell they are hardy what more yi want , closed in loft is for your own comfort pigeon dont care  ;D ;D ;D

[me]

 

funny you should say that the late great davie angus of symington at winter time had to use a brush to sweep out all the puddles in his loft that was left by rain and snow ,out in a field it was open to all kinds of weather and when it came to national races had a record second to none he did win the national cant remember what one with town foot good boy a mealy cock ,closed in lofts are only to suit the fancier and make ten nice and cosy to them the pigeon dont care as long as he is getting fed and fresh water  

 

 

Davies loft wisnae that exposed bit of snow through the vents when the wind blew fae the wrong direction during  the winter "his doos" are still scoring believe "me".

 

[jimmy white]

 

 

Davies loft wisnae that exposed bit of snow through the vents when the wind blew fae the wrong direction during  the winter "his doos" are still scoring believe "me".

 

yip ,,bang on there ,, one of the greats davie angus,, and the breeding genes still in winning birds today,, geordie bain,, the first gold award winner had a few of his birds ,

, but going on about dampness,,still the worst thing,,for anything [exept fish ;D]  but theres dampness and dampness , even if your loft is bone dry,, your footprints in winter will cause dampness,,,,but the secret is good air flow and good ventilation, a little shower blowing through the front is unavoidable ,and of course there are days when the air is really damp, this is natural to birds and is all part of nature , clinical dryness is not needed , but a damp loft with no air circulation , over a while , is suicidal

[stevebelbin]

When i first put my lofts up in the back garden i rushed them up and at that time the only ventilation was under the eaves on the flat roof. So only stale air was escaping and the only air that entered was when i opened the door to let them out etc. That year within 5 races i had a bird come 22nd combine out of 11500 or so birds. Shortly after that race i started to play about putting vents in and the birds went right off form. So just goes to show the ventilation depends on your loft location, as the vents i added reflected what where on the lofts i had b4 the new ones. I have played about with loads of things to get it right but nothing seems as good as just having the eaves ventilation.

[DOVEScot]

When i first put my lofts up in the back garden i rushed them up and at that time the only ventilation was under the eaves on the flat roof. So only stale air was escaping and the only air that entered was when i opened the door to let them out etc. That year within 5 races i had a bird come 22nd combine out of 11500 or so birds. Shortly after that race i started to play about putting vents in and the birds went right off form. So just goes to show the ventilation depends on your loft location, as the vents i added reflected what where on the lofts i had b4 the new ones. I have played about with loads of things to get it right but nothing seems as good as just having the eaves ventilation.

 

Agree that is the main thing, getting rid of stale air from droppings that are more inert than fresh air, as they rise to the highest point as the denser fresh air pushes it up

[Guest]

Late Frank Harper video featured a Welsh loft where only 'ventilation' was at the eaves. He reckoned it was the correct way, explaining that hot air rises, cold air falls, so if your ventilators were at ground level you were pulling cold air into the loft, whereas at eaves it would be warm but would cool and fall? I don't pretend to follow that, but the fancier had good results.  

 

But as far as air flow is concerned I don't think its that simple : I know that when I riddle my deep litter, the dust gets sucked out thro the east wall either thro the veranda at south end, or thro the aviary at the north end of the loft;

 

Yet when I am standing inside the aviary or the loft in front of the veranda, the airflow is definitely blowing toward me, not away from me in the direction the dust goes?  And it is the same in the roof apex, the cobwebs move east to west up there.

 

My west wall is all eaves ventilation - 7 of them, and my east wall has 2 eaves ventilators and 1 ground level ventilator.  The south wall has none, its solid brick, and the north wall is mesh from roof level to about 3' off floor.

 

  

[Ronnie]

A thing a lot of people are forgetting is humidity.

A little rain in the corridoor does no harm just increase's the humidity.The main loft is still dry and the birds are still dry.Could be the late great davie angus had his humidity just right.

 

 

 

[DOVEScot]

Late Frank Harper video featured a Welsh loft where only 'ventilation' was at the eaves. He reckoned it was the correct way, explaining that hot air rises, cold air falls, so if your ventilators were at ground level you were pulling cold air into the loft, whereas at eaves it would be warm but would cool and fall? I don't pretend to follow that, but the fancier had good results.  

 

But as far as air flow is concerned I don't think its that simple : I know that when I riddle my deep litter, the dust gets sucked out thro the east wall either thro the veranda at south end, or thro the aviary at the north end of the loft;

 

Yet when I am standing inside the aviary or the loft in front of the veranda, the airflow is definitely blowing toward me, not away from me in the direction the dust goes?  And it is the same in the roof apex, the cobwebs move east to west up there.

 

My west wall is all eaves ventilation - 7 of them, and my east wall has 2 eaves ventilators and 1 ground level ventilator.  The south wall has none, its solid brick, and the north wall is mesh from roof level to about 3' off floor.

 

  

 

Yes hot air rises but also you have to consider as well the density of it, helium that has the same ambient temperature still rises :-/

 

[Guest]

A thing a lot of people are forgetting is humidity.

A little rain in the corridoor does no harm just increase's the humidity.The main loft is still dry and the birds are still dry.Could be the late great davie angus had his humidity just right.

 

How would you go about measuring humidity inside the loft and what is the right level for pigeons?

 

 

[stevebelbin]

Bruno, if you go to any local garden centre, you can buy a humidity guage for a few quid and the best level is around about 65% humidity. Its very hard to get a constant 65% level though without some form of artificial control, such as heating and fans etc. But a loft with no low ventilation does work better as no cold damp air is coming in etc. My loft has two low vents that can be closed off if its really damp, but also has low level heating close to the vents. Thats in my OB loft, in the YB loft its totally different as this faces east, but at the start of this year i added more windows to catch more early sunshine and more vents so the loft was open most of the day etc, and my YBs have been in excellent condition all year round. Ive packed in and only got a few pair left, but the birds i gave away got some very pleasing comments.

[Back garden fancier]

Regarding "low level" ventilation. I have "high level" vents to stop vermin, but I then have a sheet of hardboard on the wall so that the air flow comes out near the floor then pushes the stale air up and out.

[jimmy white]

it must be remembered too that droppings under the perches [nest boxes ] are damp and if left will produce ammonia , which  cant be good for the birds [continual ammonia and air rising past the birds ,, no good , so worth keeping this part clean and dry,, as for humidity ,, if kept exact ,by a dehumidifier is not really natural to birds , so to my mind theres a happy sensible medium , not clinical, but a sensible middle approach to this  ,as the birds have to be made adaptable , constitutional wise, and thus bring a certain amount of immunity to the birds

[DOVEScot]

it must be remembered too that droppings under the perches [nest boxes ] are damp and if left will produce ammonia , which  cant be good for the birds [continual ammonia and air rising past the birds ,, no good , so worth keeping this part clean and dry,, as for humidity ,, if kept exact ,by a dehumidifier is not really natural to birds , so to my mind theres a happy sensible medium , not clinical, but a sensible middle approach to this  ,as the birds have to be made adaptable , constitutional wise, and thus bring a certain amount of immunity to the birds

 

Aye just mind our selves they are decendants of rock doves, here is some from Dunotter castle, Stonehaven a wild a remote corner of Scotland ;D ;D ;D